Outdoors at night?

rutt

I'd like tips for photojournalism outdoors at night. I'm going to go cover an event which is sure to be pretty tense (see http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=20809 ) Doesn't seem feasible to use much more than an on-camera flash, possibly with a defuser of some sort. I'm hoping the masters of lighting will have some suggestions. Thanks.

StevenV

Go by at lunchtime and hang big lights in the trees?

If you're lucky enough at all that the area they're in is consistantly-light (yea, right), go to manual pick one set of iso/speed/aperature and shoot with it.

RAW.

Probably highest ISO that you think you'd need, grain in conflict shots isn't bad.

Avoid the pop-up flash if you can; red-eye's worse than grain imho.

ginger_55

Question: are you going to do this up in black and white, smile. That is the way I think of good conflict shots!

Just hope for lots of conflict to make the grain look better.

Actually, seriously, I don't know how these guys do it, but the newspaper guy covering a big outdoor concert here last spring, he had just on camera flash. I mean the kind of flash you put ON the camera. The most you could do, I would think, but don't have the equipment for, is use a bracket of some sort. I used to do that. Personally, I don't think it is worth it.

I didn't. I went with ISO, lights on stage and some blur. The newspaper photographer kept putting a flash on my camera, didn't work. So go with something you are used to. But I would like to know about those cheap Wong diffusers or whatever they are. Do they go on the Sigma 500 flash?

Buy some more memory! Lots of memory! Send me some, too! I am a firm believer in the fact that if one shoots enough, the law of averages, or camera fatigue should kick in at some point.

Have the batteries to use the memory!

I will watch this thread for info re light......

ginger (if no flash, you will have to go to 1600, or higher ISO, don't worry about that. And don't forget, like I do, to up the ISO as the dark comes.)

rutt

Please, if you know something about this, please comment. The opportunity is tonight and I'd really love some tips. Thanks.

Andy

personally, i'd shoot mostly at iso 1600 or 3200 on your 5d, with as fast glass as you have. the 24L would be great - you might even get away with f/2.8 / iso 1600 or 800 on some shots. depends on the ambient light. of course, you'll need to get as close as possible

regarding flash - use your 580ex if you have one, direct, but remember that the distance is a huge factor and don't expect it to light up the entire scene if you are a ways away.

rutt

andy wrote:

personally, i'd shoot mostly at iso 1600 or 3200 on your 5d, with as fast glass as you have. the 24L would be great - you might even get away with f/2.8 / iso 1600 or 800 on some shots. depends on the ambient light. of course, you'll need to get as close as possible

regarding flash - use your 580ex if you have one, direct, but remember that the distance is a huge factor and don't expect it to light up the entire scene if you are a ways away.

Thanks. I'm thinking of using both 1DMII and 5D. I like your advice. Fast prime and high ISO on the 5D. 580ex and 24-70 f/2.8L on the 1DMII. I don't know how close I want to get to those guys, though, so I'm thinking 50mm not 24mm on the 5D. I'll bring the 24 in my bag, though.

pathfinder

This will not be art, but photojournalism as a contact sport.

I think Andy's right about shooting at 1600 or 3200 with a fast prime or good normal length zoom without flash. The 24-105 F4 L seems like it would be ideal for this venue. Or the 24-70. Fast enough, but with enough DOF to be easy to use in dim light.

Flash will just call attention to what you are interested in. No flash seems better to me.

As a practical matter, if you feel you must have flash, a flash mounted on the weak top of a prism flash shoe seems more likely to fail in a physical contact sport, than the older potato-masher strobes mounted on a handle at the side of the camera body. The old potato masher strobes were solid and could make a useful shield or club as the case may be. But you probably cannot obtain one in the time available. Good luck and keep a sense of humor.

A Stofen might be worthwhile if you decide to use the 580. I would not suggest a bigger difuser like the Fong, it will just call attention to you, and you do not want to stand out, you want to be just one of the press. You have got far more experience at this kind of thing than I have. I shoot nature remember??

A thought before posting:

Do not debate these folks if you are there to photograph them.

Keep your opinions to yourself. Let your images talk for you later.

Not all these folks will be welcome at your gentlemen's club, I suspect.:):

rutt

Jim, it's good advice, all of it. I think I'll start off with the 5D no flash and have the flash and 1DMII in the backpack in case the other just isn't working. Better to use the flash later; once you use it, you can't unuse it.

It's pretty hard for me to lose my sense of humor. And I had no intent to enter in debate. My plan is to hide among the professional press.

pathfinder

rutt wrote:

Jim, it's good advice, all of it. I think I'll start off with the 5D no flash and have the flash and 1DMII in the backpack in case the other just isn't working. Better to use the flash later; once you use it, you can't unuse it.

It's pretty hard for me to lose my sense of humor. And I had no intent to enter in debate. My plan is to hide among the professional press.

I think that is the best idea. Particularly, those from The Samoan Times!!

Shay Stephens

Sorry I am late to the party here, I was working today ;-)

But I agree with Andy here, use high ISO (as high as you need) and the brightest lens(s) you have. Use fill flash as needed.

Now I will also add this. Find out where the best light is. If there is street lighting, find out where they are, and where you need to stand to get the best look from both the existing lighting and your fill flash. You always get more bang for the buck if you treat existing lighting as if it were studio lighting. So find those sweet spots.

andy wrote:

personally, i'd shoot mostly at iso 1600 or 3200 on your 5d, with as fast glass as you have. the 24L would be great - you might even get away with f/2.8 / iso 1600 or 800 on some shots. depends on the ambient light. of course, you'll need to get as close as possible

regarding flash - use your 580ex if you have one, direct, but remember that the distance is a huge factor and don't expect it to light up the entire scene if you are a ways away.

rutt

Thanks everyone, especially Andy who came through and answered my email request for a comment here in about 2 minutes. I took your advice and didn't use the flash (though it was in the car, just steps away, a sort of security blanket) and mostly used the 5D and a fast prime. Well, I didn't quite follow it to the letter. I ended up doing as Andy did instead of as he said, and took my 50mm f/1.4 (though I had the zoom in case.) I ended up loving that lens in this situation. Wider might have been OK, but I think the 50 is very plainspeaking, so to speak, and that really works for this particular situation. If it had been more crowded, more inside, wider might have been better. (After zooms, it's odd to care.) I think the ISO grain works pretty well, too. That 5D is an amazing high ISO camera.

I posted some the story and some shots: http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=20967