Canon 580exII capasitor

oakfieldphotography.com

Just done a few tests on my flash using programme mode with mixed results. All i want to know is has the 580ex2 got a capisitor inside of it for storing the energy before it gives out its flash?
Cheers
Pat:D

ziggy53

Absolutely, all modern electronic flashes have a large storage capacitor. That's what sources power for the flash tube.

Dan7312

And just to add to that, if for any reason you open up the flash to look at its insides, the capacitor stores enough energy actually hurt you if you touch the wrong thing inside the flash. And it stores that energy for quite a while.

ziggy53 wrote: »

Absolutely, all modern electronic flashes have a large storage capacitor. That's what sources power for the flash tube.

oakfieldphotography.com

I am going to try my flash gun on another camera tonight. I think my capisitor is failing due to missed flashes eventhough i left enough time between shots. Tried testing in Programme mode and every third or second shot showed no flash at all. I tried to narrow this down to one of my four batteries being faulty so lets hope i can get this sorted once and for all tonight.
Patrick.

ziggy53

The capacitors in modern electronic flashes don't just go "slow" when they fail. Typically a capacitor will short or fail to charge at all. Either way, it's catastrophic failure.

If you are getting "some" flashes and missing others it is almost always:

• Battery failure, if the the batteries do not sump their charge quickly enough to the charging circuits of the flash. This really can be a single cell that's gone bad.
  
• Circumstance. In the thick of the moment, time dilates. What seems like it should be enough time for the flash to recycle really isn't enough time.
  
• Technique. Trying to shoot flash at low ISOs can force the flash to fire at full output and deplete the batteries at an alarming rate. Shooting in a vast or dark space, and with inefficient flash modifiers compunds the problem.
  
• Overheating. The Canon 580EX II has more conservative circuits to detect and avoid overheating and possible flash destruction, compared to previous models. If you fire too many full output times in a row, or too many high-speed bursts in a row, the flash will shut down in order to cool off.
  
• Any combination of the above.

Solutions include:

Correct flash modifier for the situation. A scoop modifier works to advantage in a majority of situations.

http://www.fototime.com/inv/908195739C4C0D3

ISOs in the 800-1600 indoors, and with a scoop modifier. Outdoors try to use the flash as fill only, and ISO 200-400.

An external, high-voltage power supply. The Canon CP-E4 coupled with the above solutions and you can pretty much pop for hours without much regard for recycle times.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/498738-REG/Canon_1947B001_CP_E4_Compact_Battery_Pack.html

http://www.adorama.com/CACBPE4.html

oakfieldphotography.com

Thankyou Ziggy.
As ever you are there to help even the helpless.lol I will return late tonight and let you know how i get onn. I am glad to hear that the capasitor does a kamakazi as this rules out its role in this dillemma. I have beem using rechargeable batteries for 3 years now and they have been failing their recharge after about 12 months. The trouble was that i was doubting the charger refusing to charge these duds and was able to fully recharge them after about an hours rest. This could have compounded my problem as there could have been the odd duff one in amongst the rest while in the flash unit. I have considered getting a cheap battery tester from ebay to eradicate the problem. What do you think?

Kind regards
Patrick.

Dan7312

This is just a shot in the dark but it could be your charger. Some multi-battery chargers have only a single charging circuit that is shared among all the batteries being charged. Each battery has a different charging rate and in a chargers with just a single circuit the first battery to fully charge ends the charging cycle, leaving the remainder not fully charged (or discharged before the cycle starts). There are a number of chargers out there with a separate circuit for each battery like this Maha C808M.

http://www.bing.com/shopping/powerex-mh-c808m-charger/p/C016E7ABEA3242E75006?q=maha+charger&lpq=maha%20charger&FORM=HURE

angevin1

oakfieldphotography.com wrote: »

Thankyou Ziggy.
As ever you are there to help even the helpless.lol I will return late tonight and let you know how i get onn. I am glad to hear that the capasitor does a kamakazi as this rules out its role in this dillemma. I have beem using rechargeable batteries for 3 years now and they have been failing their recharge after about 12 months. The trouble was that i was doubting the charger refusing to charge these duds and was able to fully recharge them after about an hours rest. This could have compounded my problem as there could have been the odd duff one in amongst the rest while in the flash unit. I have considered getting a cheap battery tester from ebay to eradicate the problem. What do you think?

Kind regards
Patrick.

Yep. Capacitors go : "Pop!" The End! I can also attest to the galvanic-conductivity of my skin when touching the business end of either electrode. OUCH!

Batteries: I've used Energizer, Duracell, Kodak, Eneloop/Sanyo. Get a Good Recharger that has a Battery conditioner on it. I have a Kodak and it is good. Out of all the batteries I've used and tested only the Duracell had to go; Junk. All the others are divine when proerply cared for. Meaning I put them in the charger/conditioner before and after each gig.

oakfieldphotography.com

Thanks for posting the link. Went through what people said about it and found two that went on fire. Dont get me wrong these could have been used with faulty batteries, All i need to know is my batteries good or bad if they are the problems i am having. Thanks for your responce.
Kind regards
Patrick.:D

oakfieldphotography.com

angevin1 wrote: »

Yep. Capacitors go : "Pop!" The End! I can also attest to the galvanic-conductivity of my skin when touching the business end of either electrode. OUCH!

Batteries: I've used Energizer, Duracell, Kodak, Eneloop/Sanyo. Get a Good Recharger that has a Battery conditioner on it. I have a Kodak and it is good. Out of all the batteries I've used and tested only the Duracell had to go; Junk. All the others are divine when proerply cared for. Meaning I put them in the charger/conditioner before and after each gig.

I use GP 2700 AA batteries, fast charged on a GP V800C. The batteries are very warm after being charged and i know this is not good. I never put them into the camera until they have cooled down.
If i can verify this is the problem i may have to change over to a different slow charging brand like what you reccommended.
Thanks for your responce
Kind regards
Patrick.:D

Dan7312

Sorry I pointed you at the wrong charger, unless you are using C and D cells in your flash:D

This is the one for A/AA batteries.

http://www.amazon.com/Maha-MH-C801D-Eight-Cell-Charger/dp/B000E5S648

oakfieldphotography.com wrote: »

Thanks for posting the link. Went through what people said about it and found two that went on fire. Dont get me wrong these could have been used with faulty batteries, All i need to know is my batteries good or bad if they are the problems i am having. Thanks for your responce.
Kind regards
Patrick.:D

oakfieldphotography.com

angevin1 wrote: »

Yep. Capacitors go : "Pop!" The End! I can also attest to the galvanic-conductivity of my skin when touching the business end of either electrode. OUCH!

Batteries: I've used Energizer, Duracell, Kodak, Eneloop/Sanyo. Get a Good Recharger that has a Battery conditioner on it. I have a Kodak and it is good. Out of all the batteries I've used and tested only the Duracell had to go; Junk. All the others are divine when proerply cared for. Meaning I put them in the charger/conditioner before and after each gig.

I must look and see if this company makes chargers for european markets.
Just wondering what power sized batteries does most of the photographers use around here?
Cheers
Pat:D

Dan7312

I think they are in European markets because it's powered by a universal supply.

Batteries come in basically two flavors.

There some that will hold almost all their charge for a year and some that lose about 10% every week or two just laying in a drawer.

A big difference in them is their internal resistance. The ones that last for a year have high internal resistance resistance but that limits how much charge the can effectively hold. The rechargables that are sold as pre-charged batteries are the ones with the high internal resistance batteries.

The others have a lower internal resistance but can hold a larger charge.

The Sanyo 2700's NMH batteries hold a lot of charge but have low internal resistance which means they will lose about 10% every week or two. But fully charge you will get more flashes out them before you have to swap out batteris than the high internal resistance ones.

So as long as you make sure you charge up all your batteries the day before going out to take pictures you might be better off with something like the Sanyo 2700's.

But pays your money takes your choice.

oakfieldphotography.com wrote: »

I must look and see if this company makes chargers for european markets.
Just wondering what power sized batteries does most of the photographers use around here?
Cheers
Pat:D

oakfieldphotography.com

Thanks for your help. I will look into this.
Pat:D

oakfieldphotography.com

Ok i am back after the flash was tested on another 5D. I do have a problem alright. Like i said before the flash only emits its light 3 out of four times and even at that some of the pictures that a flash was used looked like they were no flash used at all when you look at the picture on the back of the camera. I remember ziggy asking me to email 4 raw files to him or upload them to flickr. If you (Ziggy) are around could i upload them direct to you. Will it matter if i make them small raw files as uploading would be faster?

Kind regards
Patrick:D

ziggy53

oakfieldphotography.com wrote: »

Ok i am back after the flash was tested on another 5D. I do have a problem alright. Like i said before the flash only emits its light 3 out of four times and even at that some of the pictures that a flash was used looked like they were no flash used at all when you look at the picture on the back of the camera. I remember ziggy asking me to email 4 raw files to him or upload them to flickr. If you (Ziggy) are around could i upload them direct to you. Will it matter if i make them small raw files as uploading would be faster?

Kind regards
Patrick:D

Please upload the full sized RAW image files. I recommend using https://www.dropbox.com.

oakfieldphotography.com

Ziggy you are a star. How do i identify you on dropbox. Will have to take the photos in the next few nimutes too. Can i take them in Programme mode too.
Pat

ziggy53

oakfieldphotography.com wrote: »

Ziggy you are a star. How do i identify you on dropbox. Will have to take the photos in the next few nimutes too. Can i take them in Programme mode too.
Pat

DropBox will give you a link (or links). You can either post the link(s) in this thread or send it to me via PM. Yes, program mode is fine.

oakfieldphotography.com

ziggy53 wrote: »

DropBox will give you a link (or links). You can either post the link(s) in this thread or send it to me via PM. Yes, program mode is fine.

I took the pictures in small camera raw if that is ok as my connection to the internet is very slow for uploading. This may take a while.
Pat

oakfieldphotography.com

ziggy53 wrote: »

DropBox will give you a link (or links). You can either post the link(s) in this thread or send it to me via PM. Yes, program mode is fine.

Hopefully this works and Ziggy can get to see them. Good night all and dont let the bed bugs bite.
Patrick.:D

ziggy53

I brought down 10 images in Canon RAW format (CR2):

IMG_5456.CR2
IMG_5457.CR2
IMG_5458.CR2
IMG_5460.CR2
IMG_5461.CR2
IMG_5463.CR2
IMG_5466.CR2
IMG_5467.CR2
IMG_5468.CR2
IMG_5469.CR2

Of these, files IMG_5456, IMG_5460, IMG_5466 and IMG_5468 appear to be underexposed. The flash does not appear to have contributed to the exposure.

The interesting part is in the EXIF. For instance, all of the underexposed files share the same Metadata line, "Flash: Fired, compulsory mode". All of the images which have a flash contribution also have the same line, but this is not normal for the images which have no flash contribution.

Normally, if the flash is not ready and you press the shutter button to take an exposure, the camera will default to the available/ambient light and allow you to take the exposure. The resulting EXIF for that frame (without contributing flash) will read, "Flash: Did not fire". The exposure information will also be vastly different from surrounding frames where the flash did fire.

What all of this tells me is that the camera and flash:

• Sensed communications, i.e. the flash was attached.
• The flash was charged and ready. That's why the camera didn't default to available light.
• Preflash "did" fire. That's why the camera settings are consistent through the series of images.
• The contributing flash did not fire, or did not fire in sync with the camera. (More likely the first condition.)

Since Patrick tested the flash on a second body with the same results, this confirms the problem is limited to the flash itself.

This could be dirty contacts, so the first thing I suggest is cleaning the contacts on the shoe of the flash, including the side contacts. It would appear that there is some connection to the camera to get the above results, but some contacts may still be dirty.

The easiest and quickest way I have found to "scrub" the bottom contacts is to place a piece of white printer paper on top of a mouse pad. Then place the flash contacts on the paper, enough to barely dimple the paper. Then rub the contacts accross the paper, keeping all the contacts on the paper and keeping the light pressure. Just a few strokes should do it. Then fold some of the paper in as many folds as necessary to just fit the paper fold into the side of the flash shoe. The same pressure as before and just a few strokes per side should do the job to clean the side contacts.

Now retest the flash on the camera(s) to see if there is improvement. If there is improvement to your satisfaction, you're done until the next time this happens (hopefully years hence.) If there is no improvement, it's time to send the flash in for service.

oakfieldphotography.com

Hi all i followed Ziggys intructions to the last letter and unfortunatly the problem persists. It looks like i will have to leave it in for repair.
The person i brought my flash to last night had the opposite problem with over burst of his own flash but alas mine did the same on his 5D.
Thankyou Ziggy for your help. Just wondering did anyone here have or had the same problem as me regarding my Canon 580EXII?
Kind regards
Patrick.

oakfieldphotography.com

I am very close to sending my flash in for repair. Just before i do, i was asked a question that i could not answer.
Does the Canon 580EXII have an internal battery? I cant answer this question as i dont have the manual but mabey sommeone out there could please
Kind regards
Patrick.

ziggy53

There is no battery inside the flash, but I do believe that it has a storage capacitor just to hold your settings while you change out the AA cells (besides the main storage capacitor to hold the charge for the flash tube).

oakfieldphotography.com

ziggy53 wrote: »

There is no battery inside the flash, but I do believe that it has a storage capacitor just to hold your settings while you change out the AA cells (besides the main storage capacitor to hold the charge for the flash tube).

Thanks Ziggy. I just needed that confirmed.

oakfieldphotography.com

Well it finally happened. My flash refuses to fire at all. I can press all the buttons i want and nothing. The red light on the back of it is lit but even when you press the button nothing happens.
If i am correct the element in the flash is gone. Should i order a new one direct from canon and install it myself?
Kind regards
Patrick.:D

ziggy53

oakfieldphotography.com wrote: »

Well it finally happened. My flash refuses to fire at all. I can press all the buttons i want and nothing. The red light on the back of it is lit but even when you press the button nothing happens.
If i am correct the element in the flash is gone. Should i order a new one direct from canon and install it myself?
Kind regards
Patrick.:D

The flash tube is not designed to be user/field replaceable. There is potentially dangerous and even lethal amounts of power in the flash if you don't know what you're doing. I don't recommend trying to change your own flash tube.

Are you saying that the "Pilot" (test) button on the flash does not fire the flash even after the pilot light turns red?

oakfieldphotography.com

ziggy53 wrote: »

The flash tube is not designed to be user/field replaceable. There is potentially dangerous and even lethal amounts of power in the flash if you don't know what you're doing. I don't recommend trying to change your own flash tube.

Are you saying that the "Pilot" (test) button on the flash does not fire the flash even after the pilot light turns red?

Thats right ziggy. All of the buttons work regarding the display but no flash. The flash units zoom still works when you dial in the required mm on the back of the unit.

ziggy53

I'm afraid that I would recommend authorized Canon service.