What is Banding?

oakfieldphotography.comoakfieldphotography.com Registered Users Posts: 376 Major grins
edited October 31, 2011 in Cameras
Called up the Canon repair centre in Colchester to be told that the purple tinge i have in my pictures may be banding and i might need a new sensor. What is banding?
Kind regards
Patrick:scratch

Comments

  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 24,129 moderator
    edited October 27, 2011
    Here is a link to the different type of noise that can be produced in modern dSLRs:

    http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/image-noise.htm

    Not sure that I understand how a "purple tinge" would be banding however.
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • ThatCanonGuyThatCanonGuy Registered Users Posts: 1,778 Major grins
    edited October 27, 2011
    Noise that forms up-and-down streaks. Sometimes found when you "push" (+ exposure) shadows in post processing. It's generally not an issue, if you're careful with exposure.

    Could you post a picture with the purple fringe? I've heard of lower-quality lenses having purple fringing sometimes.
  • ThatCanonGuyThatCanonGuy Registered Users Posts: 1,778 Major grins
    edited October 27, 2011
    i-bjVXm8B-L.jpg

    = banding mwink.gif

    (1D Mark II, pushed 1 stop in ACR, with "Fill Light" slider very far).
  • oakfieldphotography.comoakfieldphotography.com Registered Users Posts: 376 Major grins
    edited October 28, 2011
    Thanks for your help here guys. I took another look and i dont think i have that problem.

    Kind regards
    Patrick.:D
  • Matthew SavilleMatthew Saville Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 3,352 Major grins
    edited October 28, 2011
    oakfieldphotography.com wrote: »
    Thanks for your help here guys. I took another look and i dont think i have that problem.

    Kind regards
    Patrick.:D

    Show us a photo and we'll let you know what we think. In high-resolution, preferably. Banding is one thing that does in fact affect the 5D mk2 and mk1 in a few different shooting conditions or at extremely high ISO's, so it is indeed a concern.

    =Matt=
    “My first thought is always of light.” – Galen Rowell
    My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
  • oakfieldphotography.comoakfieldphotography.com Registered Users Posts: 376 Major grins
    edited October 29, 2011
    Matthew Saville wrote: »
    Show us a photo and we'll let you know what we think. In high-resolution, preferably. Banding is one thing that does in fact affect the 5D mk2 and mk1 in a few different shooting conditions or at extremely high ISO's, so it is indeed a concern.

    =Matt=
    Hi Matt
    Just by luck i went back to this tread. Tell you what Matt. Its night time here so give me some settings for my 5d2 and 24-70f2.8 so i can post you a picture at the optimum levels to see if my camera suffers from banding. I have a uv filter fitted to my lens, so if you dont mind let me know if i need to remove it before my test. I am shooting into the car park outside my house where there is yellow street lights.
    Kind regards Patrick.:D
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 24,129 moderator
    edited October 29, 2011
    oakfieldphotography.com wrote: »
    Thanks for your help here guys. I took another look and i dont think i have that problem.

    Kind regards
    Patrick.:D
    oakfieldphotography.com wrote: »
    Hi Matt
    Just by luck i went back to this tread. Tell you what Matt. Its night time here so give me some settings for my 5d2 and 24-70f2.8 so i can post you a picture at the optimum levels to see if my camera suffers from banding. I have a uv filter fitted to my lens, so if you dont mind let me know if i need to remove it before my test. I am shooting into the car park outside my house where there is yellow street lights.
    Kind regards Patrick.:D

    Patrick, if you're not seeing the banding problem like that image posted by ThatCanonGuy, you don't have the problem. Just make sure that you are accurate with you're exposure and try not to push the ACR adjustments too far when you process RAW files.

    Please show us an example image which caused you to contact Canon about a problem. A link to a full resolution JPG with EXIF is fine as long as you also mention your processing settings.
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • Matthew SavilleMatthew Saville Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 3,352 Major grins
    edited October 30, 2011
    ziggy53 wrote: »
    Patrick, if you're not seeing the banding problem like that image posted by ThatCanonGuy, you don't have the problem. Just make sure that you are accurate with you're exposure and try not to push the ACR adjustments too far when you process RAW files.

    Please show us an example image which caused you to contact Canon about a problem. A link to a full resolution JPG with EXIF is fine as long as you also mention your processing settings.
    oakfieldphotography.com wrote: »
    Hi Matt
    Just by luck i went back to this tread. Tell you what Matt. Its night time here so give me some settings for my 5d2 and 24-70f2.8 so i can post you a picture at the optimum levels to see if my camera suffers from banding. I have a uv filter fitted to my lens, so if you dont mind let me know if i need to remove it before my test. I am shooting into the car park outside my house where there is yellow street lights.
    Kind regards Patrick.:D

    There are MULTIPLE types of banding, and some of them can not exhibit themselves except for under close scrutiny and at certain ISO's or in certain conditions. A few questions:

    Are you using any sort of radio transmitting device near the camera, such as a Pocket Wizard? Or are you near anything with a strong radio transmission?

    Are you shooting at high ISO's, higher than 1600? The banding can be worst at the intermediate ISO's, especially ISO 2000 which is 1/3 of a stop below 3200. Personally, I recommend NEVER using the higher intermediate ISO's on a Canon, stick to 1600 and 3200 / 6400 etc. Unless you shot video, in which case you can convert everything to 160 as your base, instead of 100. According to Vincent Laforet at least.

    And of course, lastly- are there any *lines* in the purple tinge you saw in your photos? Or just an in-discernible blob? If it is just a blob, is it near one of the corners of the image, consistently?

    Either way, if you're interested in sharing an image, just share one of the images that already has the "purple tinge" and that'd suffice. No need to do further testing, although a few shots in low light at ISO 2000 would be the ultimate torture-test.

    Of course if you're under-exposing the image in the first place and then bumping it up on the computer, any high ISO image WILL display some sort of banding eventually. That's just the limitation of the sensor at such a high ISO. The Canon 5D mk2 is particularly susceptible to high ISO banding if you're shooting in sRAW, by the way.

    Anyways, you may not have banding, but I wouldn't make the judgement call based on looking at one low-res image alone. :-)


    =Matt=
    “My first thought is always of light.” – Galen Rowell
    My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
  • oakfieldphotography.comoakfieldphotography.com Registered Users Posts: 376 Major grins
    edited October 30, 2011
    Matthew Saville wrote: »
    There are MULTIPLE types of banding, and some of them can not exhibit themselves except for under close scrutiny and at certain ISO's or in certain conditions. A few questions:

    Are you using any sort of radio transmitting device near the camera, such as a Pocket Wizard? Or are you near anything with a strong radio transmission? No

    Are you shooting at high ISO's, higher than 1600? The banding can be worst at the intermediate ISO's, especially ISO 2000 which is 1/3 of a stop below 3200. Personally, I recommend NEVER using the higher intermediate ISO's on a Canon, stick to 1600 and 3200 / 6400 etc. Unless you shot video, in which case you can convert everything to 160 as your base, instead of 100. According to Vincent Laforet at least. No

    And of course, lastly- are there any *lines* in the purple tinge you saw in your photos? Or just an in-discernible blob? If it is just a blob, is it near one of the corners of the image, consistently? No

    Either way, if you're interested in sharing an image, just share one of the images that already has the "purple tinge" and that'd suffice. No need to do further testing, although a few shots in low light at ISO 2000 would be the ultimate torture-test. Will do

    Of course if you're under-exposing the image in the first place and then bumping it up on the computer, any high ISO image WILL display some sort of banding eventually. That's just the limitation of the sensor at such a high ISO. The Canon 5D mk2 is particularly susceptible to high ISO banding if you're shooting in sRAW, by the way.

    Anyways, you may not have banding, but I wouldn't make the judgement call based on looking at one low-res image alone. :-)


    =Matt=

    Thanksm Matt
  • Matthew SavilleMatthew Saville Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 3,352 Major grins
    edited October 30, 2011
    oakfieldphotography.com wrote: »
    Thanksm Matt

    If you're talking about a "purple tinge" you saw at an ISO below 1600, then indeed it is 99.9% likely you are not seeing banding, it may have just been a white balance tint that caused the problem in a few images. Sounds to me like the Canon technician you talked to was wrong indeed. :-)

    =Matt=
    “My first thought is always of light.” – Galen Rowell
    My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
  • oakfieldphotography.comoakfieldphotography.com Registered Users Posts: 376 Major grins
    edited October 31, 2011
    Matthew Saville wrote: »
    If you're talking about a "purple tinge" you saw at an ISO below 1600, then indeed it is 99.9% likely you are not seeing banding, it may have just been a white balance tint that caused the problem in a few images. Sounds to me like the Canon technician you talked to was wrong indeed. :-)

    =Matt=

    Thanks Matt
    I agree. :D
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