Oakland Occupy Protest
Sam
Registered Users Posts: 7,419 Major grins
This is the second try to post. I had the whole thing almost done and somehow shut down the session and lost everything. :scratch:scratch
cry:cry
SORRY about the text color. I hope I fixed it. Have to run out the door will check back later.
I decided on a whim to drive up to Oakland the see the occupy protest in person. We can all watch these things on TV where the various channels may deliver the news with there own bent, but what is the real story.
These are my thoughts and impressions. Yes I will interject my opinions.
There seems to be several distinct groups of people at this protest. One group is an older very liberal antiwar 60's type of protester. There is a younger more affluent educated group. Some are non violent and happy, others not so. There are the street people. Then there are the real radicals. There was a tenseness in the air.
I saw no police anywhere......................depending on who you are that could be good or bad news.
Micheal Moor showed up and you would have thought Jesus had returned to earth. He was immediately mobbed by the media and hordes of his accolades. I wish I could have gotten a video of one girl jumping up and down screaming reminiscent of when the Beatles came to America. Getting photos was going to be a chore!
I was surprised to observe what appeared to be a man who could hardly walk and looked perplexed trying to get to the microphone to speak. Once in front of the crowd this perception disappeared. He was in his element. With a strong voice and public speaking experience the gathered hung on his every word.
I spoke with a news camera man and after a brief time opened up to me and advised me to be careful, he said they don't like the media so try and let them know your not one of us. I asked how he would describe the difference between the occupy protest and the Tea Party events and he stated that the Tea party rallies felt safe with happy people who could intelligently articulate why the were there.
Sam
Now for the photos.
#1 Peaceful nice group of people.
#2 Presenting his message.
#3 Micheal Moor arrives.
#4 He is immediately mobbed.
#5 Everyone wants his picture.
#6 Moor is on a roll enthralling the crowd with his every word and gesture.
[
#7 Why any adult making an informed decision to borrow money to better themselves or to satisfy a desire thinks they then shouldn't have to pay the money back is beyond me. I wish this could work for camera gear.
#8 What can one say?
#9 One of the real radicals. He didn't want to talk or negotiate with anyone. He advocates revolution, and had far too many agreeing with him.
#10 This guy was clear with his demands. He said I damn well better get my free chicken!
#11 Local NBC news woman.
#$12 Almost forgot. You won't see this at a Tea Party rally.
cry:crySORRY about the text color. I hope I fixed it. Have to run out the door will check back later.
I decided on a whim to drive up to Oakland the see the occupy protest in person. We can all watch these things on TV where the various channels may deliver the news with there own bent, but what is the real story.
These are my thoughts and impressions. Yes I will interject my opinions.
There seems to be several distinct groups of people at this protest. One group is an older very liberal antiwar 60's type of protester. There is a younger more affluent educated group. Some are non violent and happy, others not so. There are the street people. Then there are the real radicals. There was a tenseness in the air.
I saw no police anywhere......................depending on who you are that could be good or bad news.
Micheal Moor showed up and you would have thought Jesus had returned to earth. He was immediately mobbed by the media and hordes of his accolades. I wish I could have gotten a video of one girl jumping up and down screaming reminiscent of when the Beatles came to America. Getting photos was going to be a chore!
I was surprised to observe what appeared to be a man who could hardly walk and looked perplexed trying to get to the microphone to speak. Once in front of the crowd this perception disappeared. He was in his element. With a strong voice and public speaking experience the gathered hung on his every word.
I spoke with a news camera man and after a brief time opened up to me and advised me to be careful, he said they don't like the media so try and let them know your not one of us. I asked how he would describe the difference between the occupy protest and the Tea Party events and he stated that the Tea party rallies felt safe with happy people who could intelligently articulate why the were there.
Sam
Now for the photos.
#1 Peaceful nice group of people.
#2 Presenting his message.
#3 Micheal Moor arrives.
#4 He is immediately mobbed.
#5 Everyone wants his picture.
#6 Moor is on a roll enthralling the crowd with his every word and gesture.
[#7 Why any adult making an informed decision to borrow money to better themselves or to satisfy a desire thinks they then shouldn't have to pay the money back is beyond me. I wish this could work for camera gear.
#8 What can one say?
#9 One of the real radicals. He didn't want to talk or negotiate with anyone. He advocates revolution, and had far too many agreeing with him.
#10 This guy was clear with his demands. He said I damn well better get my free chicken!
#11 Local NBC news woman.
#$12 Almost forgot. You won't see this at a Tea Party rally.
0
Comments
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www.SaraPiazza.com - Edgartown News - Trad Diary - Facebook
Sara,
Lets not exaggerate, his net worth is only about 50 million. That's not anywhere near a gazillion. Also please note his money is different from other rich peoples money. They, the protesters, despise the rich, but give Moor a pass?
Sam
I wish you'd posted this excellent collection of images without the obviously biased commentary, Sam. It would have made it easier to simply respond to them as photographs.
As to your snide Michael Moore comments - and I have little use for Michael Moore and those who call him a documentary film maker when he is, in fact, a propagandist, the crowd has no problem with his millions because they see him as someone who uses his money and influence to support a social/political view they share. But I'll bet you knew that.
As to the warm, friendly people at the Tea Party rallies, all one who believes that has to do is look at the photos, and video, of those rallies, at the signs carried, and some - some - of the behavior.
There's plenty of nasty craziness on both sides.
By the way, for those of you who haven't had much experience with "the media," as a rule, newspaper photographers and tv cameramen have tended to be conservative, while reporters are more likely to be liberal. (note that I said "newspaper photographers," not magazine photographers and not documentary photographers, and also note that this is a gross generalization.
"He not busy being born is busy dying." Bob Dylan
"The more ambiguous the photograph is, the better it is..." Leonard Freed
While I clearly stated I would interject my opinions, I believe they were kept to a minimum, with general reportage being the mainstay.
While not a part of my original post my answer with regard to Moor's financial status and his selective acceptance by the Occupy people was not snide. Yes I understand that part of that acceptance is because he supports them, but my point was and is, Moor has made his money using the same capitalistic system the occupy folks call greedy and criminal and want to dismantle.
I reported the statement made by the camera man accurately. I could have elaborated somewhat and said he appeared a little on edge and watchful.
I went to see for myself what the environment and people were like. I have been to Tea Party events and to the occupy event. I can clearly say based on my first hand experience you will be much safer at at a Tea Party event. Yes I need to generalize a little, but for the most part you could go to a Tea Party event and state you disagree and engage in debate. You would not be wise to try that at an occupy event. This isn't bias it is a fact. I would be happy to to an occupy event with you and watch what happens when you tell them you don't support the cause.
I have seen very little nastiness from the Tea Party. When their events are over the park or area where the event took place is cleaner than before the event. Take a look at the aftermath on an occupy event.
These are facts. I have not ranted and raved. I have not espoused one view over the other. I have noted the differences.
Sam
ps: My next post has better photos.
I was in NYC, I was in Oakland, I was in SF. Sure there are radical elements, but there are also non-violence types. I saw people cleaning up, both on the encampment before the police kicked them out, and also during the march.
Yes there are homeless people, and yes, there are people who do drugs. This is Oakland and many of these people are marginalized. Should they eat cake? Would that solve their problems or issues?
Why would a nominally objective photojournalist going into an event of any type and argue with them on opposite viewpoints? If you have an opposite viewpoint, put down your camera and talk to them. There have been far too many "photographers" with an agenda who took photos and then colored their blog posts with phrases like "Lord of the flies" etc. I went there. I am 5'4", and yes, they even asked me about my photos. I talked to them, I showed them my blog. You are far more safer now than before at Oakland at night. You are from San Jose, you know that's true.
// richard <http://www.richardmanphoto.com>
richardmanphoto on Facebook and Instagram
I have a hard time accepting this as fact. There is tons of anecdotal data about radical behavior on both movements. But as your personal experience? Sure. Nothing wrong with that though. Just curious why you persist in misspelling Michael Moore's surname? Looking forward to the next set of images.
I keep misspelling his name because I am severely spelling impaired.
Sam
Your right crime is down. Oakland is now rated as safer than 4% of the cities in America. That means only 96% of American cities are safer.
Bias is a loaded word with many differing interpretations. I like all of us have preferences and predispositions. I have tried, for the most part, to separate opinions from my observations and facts.
I have previously refrained from stating that the park had a barnyard odor mixed with Marijuana. Is that bias? No it's fact.
I stated that there were a variety of different people there ranging from well intentioned to hard core radicals, advocating force to achieve their goals, as well as revolution. Unfortunately there are too many of the later.
My statement regarding attitude demeanor and safety was just that, and I stand by it. Trying to ignore the point made by simply deflecting the statement with a question of why one would try discussing or debating the cause they are championing is disingenuous.
The Tea Party has suffered from bias reporting yet don't treat the media with the same attitude.
I went, I spoke with people, I looked, I evaluated. I have tried to represent what I found accurately in word and images.
If anyone would like to see a lot more images feel free to go to my website.
Sam
But to look at the titles you gave to the photos on this forum, and to claim objectivity, is what I disagree with.
We come here to look at photos. If you have personal opinions, it may be best for other forums.
// richard <http://www.richardmanphoto.com>
richardmanphoto on Facebook and Instagram
Sam stated his observations as facts. I'm happy to accept his observations as his own and reflecting his experiences. No problem with that at all. It would be cool though if the imagery could be separated from the textual commentary.
www.SaraPiazza.com - Edgartown News - Trad Diary - Facebook
The opinions expressed are not based on the photos but rather his commentary, so no the photos are not "doing their job".
I'd like to see commentaries on the photos only as there is a no win prospect when dealing w/ politics and individual beliefs, but again as with another post recently, it's hard to get past the commentary and not get defensive (depending on which side you are on).
_________
I can hardly believe what I am reading in this thread. Some, it bothers that Sam labels an observation a "fact." Others think there should be no captions. Good grief, you'd think he had no right to label his observations and captures. If he were to submit these: Anywhere for publication, he'd better have a caption and some even want a description as well.
it's hard to get past the commentary? Really? wow!
IMO if Sam wants to call some things a fact, he has every right to. If I don't think it's a fact and I see no harm coming to him or others, for me it becomes a good with the bad kinda thing. I ignore the component I don't like (the bad) to enjoy the component I do like (the good)!
// richard <http://www.richardmanphoto.com>
richardmanphoto on Facebook and Instagram
You contradict yourself in this thread. Sam did what you said he could do, then you call what he did degrading. He gave his observations about what he saw. This event is about stirring debate. If the protestors or those that support the cause cannot handle contrary commentary,opinions, or observations, then they are not really about the free exchange of ideas. Sam clearly stated he was expressing his opinions too. He wasn't hiding he was making editorial comments too.
I reference his closing paragraph regarding his discussion with a newsman. Why in the world would OCCUPY demonstrators hate the press? How does a movement like this not gain the global perspective it has without press coverage?
In actuality the completely peaceful OCCUPY WALL STREET events went a full 14 days without a single peep of coverage by the corporate press, and that includes the progressive programs on MSNBC, despite hundreds of protesters. This in sharp contrast to the Tea Partiers who received coverage almost non-stop even when a tiny group of 5 stood on a suburban corner. And as to the dangers presented, it seems at least disingenuous to completely ignore the vile, racist hatred displayed at many of the Tea Party rallies leading up to the '10 elections. Rallies at which people showed up with guns strapped to their hips and legs and where political candidates espoused "second amendment remedies" if they didn't get what they want. Not to mention the shooting of a congressman in Tucson and the murder of her aide.
If not for the illegal pepper-spraying of 3 peaceful ladies and the entrapment of 300 people on the Brooklyn Bridge by NYPD, who knows if this thing would have grown as it has. But grow it has in large part due to social media, much as the Libya uprising.
We are all victims of the greed and corruption of the banking, insurance, multi-national corporation industries. For anyone here to believe they are not of the 99% who have suffered stagnation in financial growth over the past 25 - 30 years is kidding themselves.
.
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
You know, Tom, one of the biggest problems our democracy faces today is that the word "fact" no longer has meaning. Opinions are not facts, and should never be labeled as such. There are no Republican facts and Democratic facts, there are only facts, and various biased interpretations of those facts. Period.
"He not busy being born is busy dying." Bob Dylan
"The more ambiguous the photograph is, the better it is..." Leonard Freed
this illustrates the ignorance surrounding the understanding of what this movement is about, who it effects and how it effects them. No one begrudges people their wealth nor denies anyone succeeding at what they do and enjoying the benefits of their labors. but we live in a country where the very wealthiest have seen their wealth grow by more than 300% since 1987 and not as necessarily as a result of working harder but by contrived growth of income through investment schemes, loopholes and a growing policy of depleted tax responsibility. All while the bottom 99% have seen virtually no growth and the bottom 25% have seen a sharp decrease in financial position.
MM discussed this very topic on a recent show and I'll try to find the video. He has years of success in which he has a film showing or a book selling and others where he has NO income. In his revenue producing years, starting back when he produced "Roger & Me" he donated 50% of the films earnings to charity - out of the gate - but still paid his full share of income taxes WITHOUT taking any deductions. His justification? (paraphrased from memory) "...I love this country; it has given me many opportunities and I want it to continue to survive and prosper as well as my brothers and sisters, so I pay my taxes and I'm thankful for the opportunity to do so..."
He has always been about shedding a light on the hardships of the working people and the greedy heartlessness of CEOs who care only about their own compensation packages and the value of stock for shareholders, again - those who do not EARN their income through hard work.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/03/major-corporations-tax-subsidies_n_1073548.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/02/increase-in-extreme-poverty_n_1072505.html
.
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
Ah..you're probably right: Opinions ought not to be labeled as fact, but they are every day by many people. Some of those people just want to convince me as they are themselves convinced. Others of them just want to convince me to vote for them.
As far as it being one of the biggest problems facing our democracy today.... I could probably argue that either way all by myself, with my own various and biased interpretations.
But on the fact-thing as a whole. I learned the hard way probably thirty or so years ago, not to believe something as fact until I had substantiated it, typically with my own observations.
But in a forum such as this one, it doesn't bother me at all that Sam for instance states something as fact. It just does not bother me. Why? Because that is a trusting behavior. Because I have read Sam's prior postings, I learn to trust what he will probably say, what opinions he will probably have, and what stance he will probably take on a given moral line. So, I learn to trust a certain behavior out of Sam, as i do out of each and every poster I read.
You lost me when you lump the Tea Party with the shooting of Gifford. The guy was a nut job and didn't belong to any one movement.
I am not going to speak for Sam as I am sure he can take the criticism. What I do not like are people telling him he CAN'T or SHOULDN'T make his comments and observations. His observations are just as valid as those that see it with rose colored glasses.
I get what you're saying here Angelo, and in part, I think it's true. I certainly have witnessed and been 'victimized' by a greedy corporate structure, on many occasions in that time period. In fact I quit my last occupation due to that very nature. But I also prospered personally and financially during that period. True my prosperity was a result of my own work, but it was prosperity, not stagnation.
Oakland is very peaceful.
"A group of about 300 protesters, many of them men wearing black, some covering their faces with bandanas and some carrying wooden sticks, smashed windows of a Wells Fargo bank branch while chanting "Banks got bailed out. We got sold out.""
Yes I can take the heat, but if it's OK to criticize, which it is, then it's also OK to post in support.
As to unsubstantiated facts. Please provide examples.
You ask a question, "Why in the world would OCCUPY demonstrators hate the press? How does a movement like this not gain the global perspective it has without press coverage?"
Let's be accurate. I related what the camera man said to the best of my ability. I did not use the word "HATE" I said disliked. I found that to be substantiated by my own experience and observations. Why is a good question and one I can't answer.
You want to talk about unsubstantiated claims? Please provide evidence that the Tea Party is vial, racist and hate filled. Not just one off the wall individual, or perhaps plant, but that say 30% of Tea Party attendees are vile, racist, and full of hate.
Research conducted by polling firm PSB reveals that almost one third of the Occupy Wall Street protesters support using violence to enforce their ideas.
Then you throw in this: "Not to mention the shooting of a congressman in Tucson and the murder of her aide."
What does this have to do with the Tea Party?????
I get that you support the occupy agenda, and I do understand some opinions will be voiced, but try to have those opinions based in fact, not disjointed innuendo.
I would also like to note here that there are some commonalities between the Tea Part and the occupy people. Both groups are unhappy with the current state of affairs. Both groups want to fix this. Unfortunately their solutions are diametrically opposed. One group seeks to adhere to the constitution of the United States. Have a smaller less intrusive government. Less taxes. individual responsibility.
The other while all over the ball park voicing a very long list of grievances, wants to have government play a larger roll in our lives, dismantle our capitalist system, go down the path of socialism, and tax the rich.
Again while some of the complaints are the same the philosophy of the two solutions is not compatible. I personally would like to see REAL, civil / factual, debate articulating the different solutions and how they have fared throughout history and the world.
Sam
No comment. Can't figure out how to delete.
Sam
Absolutely and I'm not one of "those" people. Frankly I welcome healthy debate on the issues
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
for which, like me, I'm sure you paid your fair share of taxes.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/03/major-corporations-tax-subsidies_n_1073548.html
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots