people are fighting over my images lol

VayCayMom

First let me say I am a low key person and am dealing with major life changing issues now, so I just want a bit of friendly advice, not legal stuff.

My computer guy has become a family friend over the last 3 years. He gives me good deals and helps asap when something is wrong. I in turn have done about 4 free photo shoots for the guitars he designs. I enjoy it.

Last time he brought a "model" ( she was very good by the way in my eyes) and he told me not to shoot any images of her unless she had a guitar in her hands. She had mentioned something about using a couple of images to send to a magazine to get a modeling job. All I care about is getting the credits. I am just a grandmother with a camera after all.

They both got one edited image until my guy comes to pick out what he wants. She asked for and got a few unedited images literally while movers were moving my furniture. Now she wants some edited versions.
She booked me for a paid shoot that has been postponed.

Now they are fighting, he told me he does not want her to have any of the images. She told him she doesn't want him to use HER images. I jokingly told them the images belong to ME if they want to get picky about it.

I think I should honor my computer guys wishes. We have a history and I value his friendship and I think he should have control over what he arranged. The model is someone I could live without if you know what I mean. The two of them have no history, I have no idea what he offered her to do this, she even brought a hair and make up person.

So, just wanted to hear some thoughts about this. And for fun, here is a sample from the shoot....

idiotabroad

Where is the signed agreement, that should clear all of this up.

VayCayMom

Low key person was the clue for no contract lol.

cbbr

Verbal contract - he booked the shoot, artistically directed/controlled the shoot (he specified that the guitar was to be in the shots, he brought the model), you trade/barter with him for service = his shoot. Your pics, but whatever you agreed to give him, he is entitled to receive.

The model has a deal with him, not you, and should work through him. But unless he has a release from "his" model he can't use them for much either... So maybe you talk to him and explain that, agree to give her some shots in exchange for a release and then everyone is happy. And legal.

angevin1

cbbr wrote: »

......unless he has a release from "his" model he can't use them for much either...

Nor can anyone, Trudy Incl.

WillCAD

What a shame. Incidents like this can ruin friendships and professional relationships. And they are classic, textbook examples of why a pro should never shoot pics for anyone, whether compensation or barter is involved or not, without a signed agreement.

For the record, though - I agree with Chad's interpretation of the situation. And his proposed compromise.

cbbr

angevin1 wrote: »

Nor can anyone, Trudy Incl.

Sorry, I wasn't clear about that - Trudy is the "either"

Sam

Trudy,

This to me is simple. The shoot was for your computer guy. He did give you some specific instructions. I don't believe you should have given anything to the model without his permission.

I would explain to him that without a model release he can't use the images for commercial purposes.

I would ask him how he felt about you doing a separate paid model shoot for her.

I would like a list of the business, banks, etc that accept photo credit in leu of money. This is a snide way of saying don't give your work away. Yes for special people events etc. but in general if you give your work away it becomes worthless.

As an experiment since you have given the model photos at no charge, lets see how much if anything she is willing to pay to have a photo shoot with you.

Sam

Art Scott

very good image Trudy....

I agree with Chad and with Sam......
you should have only given images processed or not to YOUR client none to the model with out his permission.

Salvage your relationship with your client...if the model wants a shoot let her schedule it.

Always work with the Main Client....who ever actually hired you is the one to keep in good grace with ...

PRW_Photo

cbbr wrote: »

verbal contract - he booked the shoot, artistically directed/controlled the shoot (he specified that the guitar was to be in the shots, he brought the model), you trade/barter with him for service = his shoot. Your pics, but whatever you agreed to give him, he is entitled to receive.

The model has a deal with him, not you, and should work through him. But unless he has a release from "his" model he can't use them for much either... So maybe you talk to him and explain that, agree to give her some shots in exchange for a release and then everyone is happy. And legal.

+1

Icebear

Unless there was an explicit quid-pro-quo agreement that this session was in payment for his services he did not pay you anything for the images. You implied that you had always paid him for the work he did for you (good deals.) If you have images of the lady by herself, it's absolutely none of his business whether you let her have them or not. I don't see any registered trademark on that guitar either. I think he would be within his rights to ask you not to give her any images of him. Whether she has a similar right would depend on her agreement with him, to which you were not a party.

They are your images, unless there exists a written work-done-for-hire agreement. It is NOT your responsibility as a photographer to obtain a model release from her for him. That's his worry.

You don't need a model release from her to display her image as your work. You would probably need a release in order to make it saleable to someone else for commercial purposes, or they wouldn't buy it.

deb22

I agree with chad, keep your friend and let her re-book if she wants.

Mark Dickinson

Bluntly, you've lost control of your business, you get discounts for doing free work? Use your head.

First to save yourself headache do paperwork. Not an email even though they are agreements in some states.

Find a new computer guy

Have nice day

ziggy53

The simple truth is that if there is not the combination of a signed model release "and" compensation (even just $1USD), when the model said she did not want the images inclusive of her released, you have absolutely no legal right to release the images to anyone. If there ever was a verbal agreement, it became null and void when she said "no".

If you cannot get an agreement, and best do it in writing this time, your only course of action is to scrap the project altogether if the model appears in the images.

That means neither the client nor the model gets anything, and you have every right to having any distributed images to either party returned to you for destruction.

FedererPhoto

Given you aren't running this as a business ("All I care about is getting the credits. I am just a grandmother with a camera after all.") then just do what makes your friend (the computer guy) happy.

All the stuff about contracts, rights, releases, and everything else really only applies to people trying to run a real business.* It sounds like you were just doing your hobby for your friend.

Yes, if you wanted to publish, the releases matter... but for your 'issue' that is immaterial (and clearly decided) here.

kitkos

In order for me to make an informed decision on this matter I will need to see a few more pictures of this model. :ivar

LeeHawkins

I have to agree that maintaining a friendship is job #1...and as far as a model release goes, you don't need one to show it, but your friend certainly needs one from the model to market his guitars if he intends to use images with her in it. As far as other legalities go, I'd talk to a lawyer...but most of all, just patch things up with your friend...find out what he's OK with, and then if it's reasonable, go with it