Canon upgrade advice
Photogbiker
Registered Users Posts: 351 Major grins
Sorry for yet another "which camera" post, but I am constantly impressed with the quality advice and new things I learn from the users here.
I currently have a 20D, my first serious DSLR after years of film cameras of all sizes, and have really enjoyed it for 6 or 7 years. It will stick around as my backup. It is time to upgrade for a few reasons, but let's face it--the main reason is often I just want something new. Main photographic reasons are focus speed and accuracy, low light (high ISO) performance, and a few more pixels for the time I want to enlarge or just smooth out some things. My photography is varied, but mainly people (candid and portrait), some minimal sports and outdoor, and minimal landscape and architecture. I would say the driver is the people with a desire to do more portraits. My sons are in marching band and I'm in my fifth year of shooting their performances and events for the school so it is people but also action at night games--hence focus speed and higher ISO performance (passable 3200 would be great).
My thoughts so far are 7D for the combination of features and price (really like the flash control built in), but the high pixel count on a crop sensor is a concern. 1. would I really use it all in a crop sensor, and 2. how much will it emphasize any error on my part having all those pixels to see. I have gotten used to the 1.6 crop on my 20D though, and like the "reach" of my 100-400 on it.
Next thought was 5DII for the portrait side. Would love to see a nice portrait on the full frame sensor and creamy smooth skin. Also better in high ISO, and the 3.9 fps doesn't bother me, although it is fun to have faster on the occasional bike or car race shoot.
The one that popped up recently is a used 1DIII for about the same or less than a 5DII (refurb 5DII is $2,000, used 1DIII is $2-2,300). Not as small a crop, fewer pixels but still enough for everything I do, good high ISO and fast focus and fps. Is this a good compromise between the two (hard to say that about a pro level camera!) for a great action candid camera that still is excellent for portrait and people work? Size doesn't bother me, grip has been on my 20D since new. Lacks some of the great new tech of the 7D (and video) but built like a tank.
Thanks in advance for your help.
My site is daltonphoto.smugmug.com to see the what I like to shoot.
I currently have a 20D, my first serious DSLR after years of film cameras of all sizes, and have really enjoyed it for 6 or 7 years. It will stick around as my backup. It is time to upgrade for a few reasons, but let's face it--the main reason is often I just want something new. Main photographic reasons are focus speed and accuracy, low light (high ISO) performance, and a few more pixels for the time I want to enlarge or just smooth out some things. My photography is varied, but mainly people (candid and portrait), some minimal sports and outdoor, and minimal landscape and architecture. I would say the driver is the people with a desire to do more portraits. My sons are in marching band and I'm in my fifth year of shooting their performances and events for the school so it is people but also action at night games--hence focus speed and higher ISO performance (passable 3200 would be great).
My thoughts so far are 7D for the combination of features and price (really like the flash control built in), but the high pixel count on a crop sensor is a concern. 1. would I really use it all in a crop sensor, and 2. how much will it emphasize any error on my part having all those pixels to see. I have gotten used to the 1.6 crop on my 20D though, and like the "reach" of my 100-400 on it.
Next thought was 5DII for the portrait side. Would love to see a nice portrait on the full frame sensor and creamy smooth skin. Also better in high ISO, and the 3.9 fps doesn't bother me, although it is fun to have faster on the occasional bike or car race shoot.
The one that popped up recently is a used 1DIII for about the same or less than a 5DII (refurb 5DII is $2,000, used 1DIII is $2-2,300). Not as small a crop, fewer pixels but still enough for everything I do, good high ISO and fast focus and fps. Is this a good compromise between the two (hard to say that about a pro level camera!) for a great action candid camera that still is excellent for portrait and people work? Size doesn't bother me, grip has been on my 20D since new. Lacks some of the great new tech of the 7D (and video) but built like a tank.
Thanks in advance for your help.
My site is daltonphoto.smugmug.com to see the what I like to shoot.
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Comments
Do make sure to check the serial number of the 1D MKIII body to see if it was in the included serial numbers for AF problems (serial numbers between 501001 and 546561). If so, just make sure that the factory corrections were applied.
Understand that the Canon 1D series is more adjustable for AF parameters than any other series (of the same period) and that the settings are not always intuitive. If you should get the 1D MKIII and you have problems with the AF, feel free to ask for help here.
The 5D MKII is just a wonderful camera for landscapes, some nature, portraiture and formals, some product, and even some sports. I don't recommend it for rapid action sports, but some folks are successful using it for that too. It definitely was not designed for action/sports.
For me, the combination of a 7D plus the 5D MKII, versus the combination of a 1D MKIII and a 5D MKII, would depend on the night/indoor aspect. The 1D MKIII is (IMO) more capable in low light just because of the AF secion.
If I had to choose just one body from that bunch, it would be the 1D MKIII. Then I would add the commercial program Neat Image (noise reduction) and plugin FlexNR, both of which work inside of Photoshop. (I own both Neat Image and FlexNR, even though I never did purchase a 1D MKIII. The 1D MKII body is still serving me well. FlexNR does kinda-sorta work on the 1D MKII files too, just not as well. Neat Image works well on everything however.
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=141192
Do remember that the 1D MKIII and 5D MKII are only designed to use EF series lenses, not EF-S crop lenses.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
7D - Sending back my rental tomorrow and well it's been ehhh. I've used 1D's before and I'd much rather shoot sports with my 5DII or a 1D than with the 7D. Focusing is more predictable on fast moving sports. I fixed that some on Friday by using center points on AI Focus but it was still frustrating to say the least (take that with a grain of salt, I only had it 10 days)
I'd say a 1D Body. I'm holding out and scraping up pennies for the 1Dx when it finally comes out... hopefully I'll be able to afford one!
Ziggy--If I devalue the fast auto focus and fps for sports/action a bit and upgrade the portrait and/or landscape use a bit would you tip to the 5DII? You're right, the 5DII and 7D would be the ultimate combo for me. (I only have one EF-S lens, the 18-55 that came in the kit--not a big loss).
Jim--same question. I hear you on the sports and the 1 series would be great for the occasional action I shoot. Right now my low light shooting is really just the marching band and while yes, they are marching they really aren't that fast and are predictable. I usually use center spot and AI now just to keep consistent. How does your 5DII do for the occasional full sun kids baseball or soccer game? I remember when a 3.5pfps winder on my Minolta X-700 was pretty cool.
Comments so far lean to the sports and AF speed benefits. How will I like the 1DIII for portraiture (family, HS senior, very rare wedding) compared to the 5DII, or compared to a crop 7D?
My 20D when pushed to expanded range of 3200 is what I would call passable, but really not sellable. Is the 1DIII better (SOOC)? Along with a new camera will be an upgrade to Lightroom 3 and some noise and portrait fx (for high school skin) software.
Thanks again for the great input.
Yes, the 5D mk2 is a great choice if FPS and insane focusing power is less of a priority. The 5-series will always be one of the best portrait systems on the market, given the resolution and low-light performance and full-frame depth. Especially if the next camera ,a 5DX or whatever, goes back down to 18 megapixels, and crams in more AF etc. at a higher price point.
At ~3 FPS, you really just learn to time your shots right instead of "spraying and praying..." And it's not nearly that bad at all, especially with sports that have a decisive "peak action" moment that you can concentrate on. (everything from Baseball and gymnastics to wedding kisses and boquet tosses) I shot weddings, gymnastics, and theater / stage on a 3 FPS DSLR for years before I got anything with more speed...
However, I still would love to have a 7D or 1D mk3 in my kit if I were a Canon shooter. You just can't deny the usefulness of raw power if you shoot LOTS of erratic action sports. (As opposed to "predictable action"...)
=Matt=
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
...and I'm another crazy that uses a 5D2 as one of my two main cameras at the field. Even my commercial work in pro sports is shot with a combination of a 1D4 and a 5D2, with my 1D3 as a backup. It does take practice with get the shots, but the IQ is more than worth it IMHO. Even if I get a 1Dx next spring, I'll still keep my 5D2 at the ready.
Which is one thing I noticed with the 7D, that I don't see with my 5DII, NOISE. I was shooting 6400 with the 7D at a football game and it wasn't nearly as nice as the 5DII at a football game.
My problem is the split second where I want to take the picture usually falls right between the 3.9fps shutter..
Overall I think my desire for portrait/landscape/ and some high ISO is stronger than my sports/action/super fast focus lock & track usage. Which is pushing me in the 5DII direction. Canon refurb with a loyalty trade in is under $2,000.
Last bit I haven't heard comment on, how is the 1DIII as a portrait camera? Matt or Ziggy--would you shoot weddings, engagements, family groups etc with it and be just as happy as the 5DII output? I am not a pro and rarely shoot portraits for hire (HS seniors for friends, family portraits), but wonder if the 10mp 1.3 crop would leave me wanting as I improve my skills in this area. Or, given the portrait--action tug of war I find myself in, is the 1DIII the best all around?
As I said in my post,
The 1D MKIII can be a wonderful portrait camera.
The important things are:
Photographer (Skill, experience, style, etc.)
Subject (Including posing, scene, etc.)
Framing and composition
Lighting
Lens
Camera
... in pretty much that order. Any of your previously mentioned cameras are capable of portraiture and all are capable of 20 x 30 inch photographs. (That's as large as I've gone.) I've done very nice portraits with a Canon XT/350D, for that matter.
On the other hand, the Canon 5D MKII is a perfectly wonderful portrait camera. It has a type of smoothness at lower ISOs that is hard to describe. Give it the best lenses and it has a type of sharpness and detail that is also hard to describe.
Aren't choices wonderful?
Just decide what's most important to you and then choose the best body according to your priorities. Never look back and never second-guess your decision and choice. Learn to leverage whatever you buy to its best advantage and hone your skills. Consider renting equipment for individual needs as required.
Remember that we are here to help with any questions you might have along the way.
Do all of this and you'll be fine.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
Perfectly said!! The camera is at the bottom of the list of concerns.
I think the tradeoff is between slightly better IQ on the 5D2 and slightly more versatility on the 1D3. You'll do fine with either...
I think I will aggressively look for both and see which I find the deal on, a great condition 1DIII or a 5DII refurb maybe with the loyalty price. First good deal wins and as you have both said, can't go wrong with either. Both are such a step up from my 20D I can't wait. I'll post when I get one.
Thanks all for the input.
Thanks again for the great input folks.
1D Mark III showed up today. Found it on ebay through Adorama. 5,000 clicks and not a mark on it. Came with everything including an extra battery. Shooting my son's marching band in a night parade tomorrow and can't wait.
Now for a bit more glass.......:D
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
that's a nice upgrade !
Mumon is right! "Every day is a good day!"
http://www.keithbroadphotography.com/
Loving it so far. Shot the kids night parade over the weekend. Focus was quick even when so dark I could barely see the subject. Shot at iso 2000 or 2500 I believe, much better than would have resulted from the 20D. These have not been through noise reduction and just a little exposure adjustment in RAW. Also shot in M1 size, not full res. Need a couple new cards now!
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
...especially when it results in some nice photography!!
I'm impressed with the noise, or lack thereof. I have a 1D3 I use as a backup at sports events, and I think I get more noise at these ISOs than you did...maybe I should recheck tho...