Any new wedding photographers looking for a solid shot list to work off of?

Oakley

When I first started shooting weddings, I remember googling "wedding photography shot list" and trying so hard to find a good list that I could print and use.

And now that I've got my fair share of weddings under my belt, I thought I would "clean up" the one I customized for myself and offer it as a free gift to my email subscribers on my blog.

You can get a copy of my cheat sheet and shot list here -

http://weddingphotographygig.com/wedding-photographers-cheatsheet

Enjoy.

Ryan

Glort

Why don't you make it available without signing up?

Some people might think this is just a scam to get your blog hits up otherwise. There are a lot of people doing that these days unfortunately.

Oakley

Hi Glort,

That's a good question. I hate spam too. Really. But I do love finding people and content that is out there that helps me with a problem I'm having.

The goal I have for my website is to provide killer free content to people that are looking to break into the wedding photography business.

And I spent a lot of time creating the shot list I talk about above to give away to my visitors. Many people that have seen the pdf think I'm crazy for giving it away for free.

So I decided to offer it as a gift to people that sign up for my newsletter.

I think it's a fair trade. If you don't, that's totally fine.

Back to the spam thing....I really want to find get my website in front of people that could benefit from it. I thought that many dgrinners would fit that audience.....what do you think would be the best approach to connect with people in this forum that wouldn't seem spammy?

Thanks,

Ryan

WillCAD

I have one suggestion - the image on your Subscribe and Confirm pages is HUGE. Re-size it to about 800x600 so it fits on most screens; when it appeared on my 1280x1024 screen all I got was a close-up of your ear till I scrolled around.

Oakley

Yikes....thanks Will. I just added that image to aweber......thought they would resize it for me. Guess not.

Thanks for signing up. I hope you enjoy the pdf. Let me know if you have any questions/thoughts/suggestions.

Cheers

Ryan

Glort

Oakley wrote: »

Hi Glort,

That's a good question. I hate spam too. Really. But I do love finding people and content that is out there that helps me with a problem I'm having.

The goal I have for my website is to provide killer free content to people that are looking to break into the wedding photography business.

And I spent a lot of time creating the shot list I talk about above to give away to my visitors. Many people that have seen the pdf think I'm crazy for giving it away for free.

So I decided to offer it as a gift to people that sign up for my newsletter.

I think it's a fair trade. If you don't, that's totally fine.

Back to the spam thing....I really want to find get my website in front of people that could benefit from it. I thought that many dgrinners would fit that audience.....what do you think would be the best approach to connect with people in this forum that wouldn't seem spammy?

Thanks,

Ryan

To me, your reply sounds very "' spammy" and reeks of a sles pitch but I'm just a guy who doesn't take things on face value and looks for the angle. Amoungst your feel good rhetoric, you don't actually explain why people need to sign up.

If your shot list is so helpful and your content is "killer"q, then people would naturally want to come back to your site to see what else they could learn and benifit from it by themselves. Making people sign up so you can send them a news letter and calling it a fair trade to me seems like you know they are not going to want to opt in volountarily so you're holding them to randsome as it were.

There are plenty of sites I visit regularly that have good helpful content that neither make me sign up for newsletters or for the content they provide. I go back because I want to and don't need to be reminded or have bait dangled in fromt of me so the site gets it's hit rate up.
Might be just me but when I see I need to sign up to something, I think I'm being co-erced into something I may not do otherwise.
If a site has good content, I'll naturally go back there under my own volition. Aside from that, I get enough spam now and people sending me information that I don't want.

Obviously you hope to profit from helping people with this killer free content on the backend somehow which is fine, However to me i just prefer for people to be honest and not pass something off as something it's not and treat me like a sucker.

Oakley

Glort wrote: »

To me, your reply sounds very "' spammy" and reeks of a sles pitch but I'm just a guy who doesn't take things on face value and looks for the angle. Amoungst your feel good rhetoric, you don't actually explain why people need to sign up.

If your shot list is so helpful and your content is "killer"q, then people would naturally want to come back to your site to see what else they could learn and benifit from it by themselves. Making people sign up so you can send them a news letter and calling it a fair trade to me seems like you know they are not going to want to opt in volountarily so you're holding them to randsome as it were.

There are plenty of sites I visit regularly that have good helpful content that neither make me sign up for newsletters or for the content they provide. I go back because I want to and don't need to be reminded or have bait dangled in fromt of me so the site gets it's hit rate up.
Might be just me but when I see I need to sign up to something, I think I'm being co-erced into something I may not do otherwise.
If a site has good content, I'll naturally go back there under my own volition. Aside from that, I get enough spam now and people sending me information that I don't want.

Obviously you hope to profit from helping people with this killer free content on the backend somehow which is fine, However to me i just prefer for people to be honest and not pass something off as something it's not and treat me like a sucker.

Hi Glort,

It's absolutly true that I monetize my blog and that I'm running it like a business. But I strongly believe in creating a web-based business that's transparent, valuable, and makes the world a better place.

For sure the shot list that I created is something that I am exchanging for access to someones email. Email is by far the best way to build a relationship and that's what I aim to do with my online business. It's the opposite of creating a long sales page and trying to convince people to buy my products.

Through a relationship I can learn what my audience wants and work on products that solve their problems. I think that's a beautiful thing. I am more than happy to buy products and services from people and companies that go the extra mile to understand my problems and create solutions for them.

Anyways, I am sorry that you think all of this seems spammy and insincere. That's not the intent.

I'm looking to connect with my audience and add value to their lives --- using all the tools and technology I can to make that happen - like email marketing.

So I appreciate your comments and I hope you can see my point of view.

Have a great day.

Ryan

idiotabroad

I just did it and sent it to one of my ghost emails. Thanks for the info. BTW the ghost emails are for selling on craigslist. It always helps to have 3 or 4. And thanks again.

Oakley

idiotabroad wrote: »

I just did it and sent it to one of my ghost emails. Thanks for the info. BTW the ghost emails are for selling on craigslist. It always helps to have 3 or 4. And thanks again.

I had never heard of "ghost emails" before. But thanks to google - I'm now in the loop!

http://allforces.com/2005/05/18/ghost-email/

I like thier idea of using a particular email address for one sign-up (their example was "unitedairlines@yourdomail.com" so that if you get spam to that address you know that it was sold"). But that sounds expensive and a lot of work to do for each sign-up form.

Thanks for the info though....

My email opt-in is run through aweber.com which has the double-opt in to make sure people are consciously subscribing to my email list.

And --- it's really easy to unsubscribe to my list in any of my emails that I send out (which is weekly).

Cheers

Angelo

Anyone not interested in registering on any website need not do so. Let's not resort to leveling accusations at fellow members.

.

angevin1

Oakley wrote: »

.what do you think would be the best approach to connect with people in this forum that wouldn't seem spammy?

Include a DIRECT link. Not a sign up link. The difference is obvious. One is surfing for clients the other is asking for opinions.

I actively follow one newsletter via e-mail. it is rich with new info each week. I usually click on at least one link to go there to read the entirety. He has click-thru links in case I want or need to buy something. Anyone can read, reply or post a comment to his blog without sign-up. Which I appreciate.

I will say though that your vision is completely inline with a quote from a Media Mogul after he took over the WSJ. So you have some heady company in your vision.

Oakley

angevin1 wrote: »

Include a DIRECT link. Not a sign up link. The difference is obvious. One is surfing for clients the other is asking for opinions.

I actively follow one newsletter via e-mail. it is rich with new info each week. I usually click on at least one link to go there to read the entirety. He has click-thru links in case I want or need to buy something. Anyone can read, reply or post a comment to his blog without sign-up. Which I appreciate.

I will say though that your vision is completely inline with a quote from a Media Mogul after he took over the WSJ. So you have some heady company in your vision.

Hi Tom....

Thanks for your reply. I think next time I'll focus on providing a valuable content in the post. And then if someone wants to learn more and decide to download the whole cheat sheet - they can go to my site and sign up for my newsletter.

I think that would be a win-win senario.

Thanks everyone for helping me figure out the best way to engage.

Cheers

Ryan

FedererPhoto

Back to the point of the OP -- the shot list.

My personal belief is that if you are working off a shot list, you are not focusing on what's authentically beautiful around you.

Oakley

FedererPhoto wrote: »

Back to the point of the OP -- the shot list.

My personal belief is that if you are working off a shot list, you are not focusing on what's authentically beautiful around you.

Hi Federer,

Good point...and I think most wedding photographers get to that stage in their experience after shooting for a while that they can just rely on their intuition to get them through the day. It's actually pretty sweet when you can go beyond your nerves and just get into the creative flow.....anticipating and shooting....anticipating and shooting....

But when you're first starting out, it's a good idea to have a shot list as a reminder of what you need to do for each part of the wedding day. I would never suggest someone take a shot list, methodically shoot them in order, check them off as you go, and call it a day.

Instead, I would suggest the photographer review the list the night before the wedding to help them visualize and build up that "intuition" of what needs to be shot and when......and then refer to the list when there are lulls in the day or when you have that feeling of "I think I'm missing something here..." (NOT when something important is happening in front of them - see point 3 below)

In my pdf, I provide some best practices and tips for the shot list user...

A Few Notes About Using the Shot List

1. Make sure you review the shot list with your couple to
ensure you’re getting the shots they want. Don’t be surprised
if they want you to just “do what you do”. In either case,
the shot list below will be a good guide but it is not a “one
size fits all”. Review and revise it for every couple if needed.

2. Some of the items in the list are more “valuable” and “must
haves” then others. It’s your job to know the difference. But
here’s a hint --- whatever your couple has put time and
energy into (flowers, dress, cake, wedding party, family etc.)
is likely something important to them and they will want a
memory of. So pay attention to what they are paying
attention to – and shoot it. If your couple puts more
emphasis on the people and less on the “stuff”, then shoot
more people. And vise a versa.

3. Don’t be overwhelmed by the list during the wedding day.
Use it as a tool, but don’t get caught checking things off the
list when a moment that should be caught on “film” is
happening right in front of you. There are always lulls in the
day and that’s the time to have a quick glance at the list to
make sure you’ve got everything covered.

4. The “sections” in the list are also how I organize my photos
in Adobe Lightroom. Breaking up the day like that helps me
to mange my files, plus it’s the chapters I use in the wedding
photo book. The sections also help me prepare and
anticipate the shoot.

5. One last reminder that the shot list is not comprehensive.
Even if the list has been “approved” by your clients, be
prepared to take a lot of shots in addition to what’s shown in
this guide.

6. It’s best to print this document “double-sided” so the cheat
sheet and the shot list are on the same page.

Glort

If the above notes weren't plainly obvious to anyone that downloaded this " Shot list" , what would be obvious to me is they have no damn right trying to shoot a wedding on their own and need lots more practice and coaching.

Oakley

Sorry Glort. I disagree with you there. We all start out as beginners and sometimes the things that experienced people take for granted are exactly what beginners need to hear.

I'd appreciate it if you could use a more friendly tone on this forum. I'm just trying to be helpful. If you don't agree with what I write, that's fine, you just don't need to put me down.

Thanks

Ryan

cbbr

I suscribed and downloaded it - it may be second nature to some, but even then it is a good starting point. I am surprised that you guys don't have an e-mail set up for this type of thing. Thanks.

Glort

Oakley wrote: »

I'd appreciate it if you could use a more friendly tone on this forum. I'm just trying to be helpful. If you don't agree with what I write, that's fine, you just don't need to put me down.

Thanks

Ryan

Are you serious or just trying to win some sympathy and followers to your blog?

You need to harden up and read what is written not play victim.
I didn't put you down, I commented on what you wrote which is basically your opinion. I am entirely within my rights on this forum to disagree with, or have an opinion of my own on which may be different to yours.
You need to realize if you don't already this is an entirely separate thing to "putting you down."

There is nothing directed to you or anything personal in what I wrote.
If you think there is, that is through your misplaced and overly delicate sensitivities, not because of what I wrote.

puzzledpaul

From my own pov, info being offered 'in exchange for' an email addr has got to be of *very* special interest in order to get me to register / sign up - and is almost guaranteed to put me off from the start.

I'd be much more likely to sign up (to a newsletter etc) after d/l the info and actually evaluating for myself the possible usefulness.

Have you considered splitting the 2 options to see what happens?

When I wrote stuff (open source 3D modeller related) and made it available (for free) on the net, I didn't even bother with the email / contact side - although I got feedback about its usefulness (or otherwise) via the related forum.

Won't comment on the actual content as it's of no interest whatsoever + I think it's all over hyped (wedding stuff, that is)

pp

Oakley

Hi Paul,

Being the age of the internet - there is a tonne of great (as well as really crappy) stuff online that's free, including wedding shot lists. So part of the reason for creating the "barrier" to recieve my shot list by having to sign up to my list is to create a percieved level of value. Sure, I'm not charging money - but I am asking for an email address. So there's an exchange there. It's my job to over-deliver on my shot list when someone does choose to sign up and see what it's all about. So far -- feedback on the doucment has been great.

Of course, a wedding shot list won't be for everybody (like you, for example - since you're a wildlife photographer and not a wedding photographer and it's probably not for the seasoned wedding pros either) --- but that's fine because I'm gearing my blog to people just getting started in the wedding photography business.

My blog will have a tonne of free stuff on it --- in fact, I'm in the process of making a tutorial to show people how to go from a fresh smugmug site to a fully functional, nice looking wedding photography site in less than a day. The totorial is really thurough and will probably be 8-10 videos long. I think (and hope) a lot of people are going to benifit from it ---- and no, I won't ask people to sign up to my email list to get it.

OK....this has been a great learning experience for me.

1. I need to be very careful "promoting" my blog and any of my products (free or paid) on forums. In fact...I just won't do that any more. I'll use forums as they are intended --- to answer peoples questions and to ask my own. I do apologize to anyone who saw this as "spam"......I was just excited to get my shot list to people that I thought could use it.
2. My site is not for every photographer. And that's probably a good thing.

Thanks
Ryan

idiotabroad

cbbr said it, you need an email so you can access this type of thing.

Wachel

Oakley wrote: »

Sorry Glort. I disagree with you there. We all start out as beginners and sometimes the things that experienced people take for granted are exactly what beginners need to hear.

I'd appreciate it if you could use a more friendly tone on this forum. I'm just trying to be helpful. If you don't agree with what I write, that's fine, you just don't need to put me down.

Don't let Glort stress you out. He often has good information to share but being tactful is not his strong point.

Thanks for sharing the information in your guide.

Oakley

Thanks Michael. I can be a bit sensitive too.