Help putting together Light Kit

smargitasmargita Registered Users Posts: 36 Big grins
edited November 30, 2011 in Accessories
Well, my dream came true. I put up a quick Smugmug Pro site 1 week ago and just last night, I was contacted by the head of a local organization. I was asked to. E their official photographer, securing all portraits, team shots and candies of various sporting events for the kids.
I experience includes *on- camera* flash.
So I am trying to put together a remote light kit that I can take with me to various shoots.
I already own a Nikon SB-600 and a Nikon D80.
So what else do I need? I have created a list including:
2 stands, 2sandbags, 1 umbrella, 1 boom arm with reflector kit, a pocket wizard set.

I am hesitant on the pocket wizard initially because I will try the usefulness of the Nikon Commander System.

But I am not sure if I should start with 2 umbrella kits or 1 umbrella and 1 reflector. (I do have an old Sunpak 363 which I could use with a 2nd umbrella.

Can someone please point me in the direction of building a practical light kit for on location shoots of kids sports portraits?
Thanks!
- Steve


- Steve

Comments

  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 24,133 moderator
    edited November 23, 2011
    Is this for indoor or outdoor sports? Both?
    How large is the largest team?
    How many teams for an event?
    How much time between teams?
    Do you have access to mains/AC power?
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • smargitasmargita Registered Users Posts: 36 Big grins
    edited November 23, 2011
    This will be mainly outdoors with teams size 7-10 kids, maybe a few a little larger. I am not sure number of teams, but estimate for exams the soccer team my son played on may have had 8 teams of 8 kids. Other sports include softball, t-ball and the like all similar size.
    Most challenging will be the swim team photo - 100 kids. But that's not for a year yet.
    I'd prefer to stay with strobes. More portable.
    I can build slowly, I just want enough to get starts for outdoor teams and portraits as mentioned above


    - Steve
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 24,133 moderator
    edited November 23, 2011
    For outdoors you may need several "speedlights" (compact, battery powered flash units in "Nikon-speak") in order to overcome direct sunlight. You may also find the Nikon wireless flash control challenging for outdoor use. (Nikon wireless is optical and line-of-sight and direct sunlight is often reported by users to interfere.)

    Inexpensive radio slaves may be used outdoors with manual flashes and I use them as principal and backup light sources. (Flash automation is not really required for portraits and manual control is often preferable.)

    A better choice IMO, if you have access to mains/AC power, are studio monolights. While they are not suitable for wet weather, they tend to offer more actual output per dollar than speedlights. This is what I use for outdoor weddings formals and it works pretty well for me. Again, I use inexpensive radio slave sets for syncing studio strobes and manual mode. (The monolights that I use are only manual mode.)
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • smargitasmargita Registered Users Posts: 36 Big grins
    edited November 23, 2011
    A/c will not always be available so I am thinking of portability.


    - Steve
  • smargitasmargita Registered Users Posts: 36 Big grins
    edited November 23, 2011
    So you think 2 flash units - 1 Nikon and 1 Sunpak both in manual mode with 2 slaves rather than 1 nikon and 1 reflector
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 24,133 moderator
    edited November 23, 2011
    smargita wrote: »
    So you think 2 flash units - 1 Nikon and 1 Sunpak both in manual mode with 2 slaves rather than 1 nikon and 1 reflector

    For outdoors, in direct sunlight, especially using umbrellas/diffusers, 2 compact flash units may not be enough. I suggest that up to 4 high-output speedlights may be required for a team of 10, depending partly how you intend to light the scene. You will also need some backup lights because you will probably be using these lights at full-power, or close to that.

    It doesn't have to be Nikon speedlights. I have had very good luck using Sigma DG Super flashes, which also have a very nice (accurate and repeatable) manual mode. User Art Scott reports that the Sigma units, in Nikon iTTL, lose their Nikon specific automation settings when they power down (to save batteries), so they are not perfect, but in manual mode they are very nice to use IMO.

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/741718-REG/Sigma_189306_EF610_DG_Super_Flash.html
    http://www.adorama.com/SG610NK.html

    I have 4 - Sigma DG Super flashes myself and 1 - Canon 580EX (similar in output to the Nikon flagship flashes) and in my tests and experience it can take all 4 flashes to properly expose a group of that size in direct sun. You can certainly start with 2 flashes, run your own tests (which I highly recommend that you do regardless) and then purchase more if you see the need.

    You can use a dual-flash bracket so that you may only need a pair of umbrellas, stands, etc.
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • angevin1angevin1 Registered Users Posts: 3,403 Major grins
    edited November 23, 2011
    smargita wrote: »
    Well, my dream came true. I put up a quick Smugmug Pro site 1 week ago and just last night, I was contacted by the head of a local organization. I was asked to. E their official photographer, securing all portraits, team shots and candies of various sporting events for the kids.
    I experience includes *on- camera* flash.
    So I am trying to put together a remote light kit that I can take with me to various shoots.
    I already own a Nikon SB-600 and a Nikon D80.
    So what else do I need? I have created a list including:
    2 stands, 2sandbags, 1 umbrella, 1 boom arm with reflector kit, a pocket wizard set.

    I am hesitant on the pocket wizard initially because I will try the usefulness of the Nikon Commander System.

    But I am not sure if I should start with 2 umbrella kits or 1 umbrella and 1 reflector. (I do have an old Sunpak 363 which I could use with a 2nd umbrella.

    Can someone please point me in the direction of building a practical light kit for on location shoots of kids sports portraits?
    Thanks!
    - Steve


    - Steve


    Hi Steve. Congratulations on your New Event Coverage.

    Nikon's Wireless Commander is great, out-doors or in, but truly reliable performance will have to come in a Radio/wireless solution. And there are myriad companies selling products that will work. Some quite cheap, and others not as cheap, as you know.

    On the Umbrella and Sandbag issue...and it is an issue, if there is much wind at all, it can be very hard to keep them upright and working even with Sandbags or even with a person holding onto them. Umbrellas as you can imagine are just big wind-sails. So they love some wind!

    And as far as overpowering the Sun, which you didn't mention, but Our esteemed and knowledgeable Moderator ( Ziggy53) did. No worries! You're not going to overpower the Sun with anything Short of about twenty flash-guns. So like Ziggy said, Mono-lights/Strobes would be the best route. But using flashguns is what you want. So plan on buying a few, at least three I'd say for small groups of ten or less and more for larger groupings. You'll have to be creative in getting them out of the direct light, as you know. Diffusing that light could be a challenge due to circumstances on-set. Wind like I said will set sail those umbrellas. personally I think exposing the kids well and giving just a hint of light that can be given with flashguns is about right. Overdoing the flashguns can make for some dreadful Shadows as you know, so I understand your thoughts on umbrella. But even with open and direct flash gun-heads you can give 'em some pop without those harsh shadows.

    answer: at least 3 flashguns. And yes, I prefer the SB line myself for sheer reliability they're hard to beat. if you're behind them and shooting landscape mode, then you ought to be able to get them to flash outside almost 99 percent of the time in commander mode.
    tom wise
  • cbbrcbbr Registered Users Posts: 755 Major grins
    edited November 23, 2011
    Could you just put them in some shade and use the SB as fill?
    Chad - www.brberrys.com
    If I post it, please tell me how to make it better. My fragile ego can take it.
  • angevin1angevin1 Registered Users Posts: 3,403 Major grins
    edited November 23, 2011
    cbbr wrote: »
    Could you just put them in some shade and use the SB as fill?


    You Could. And just as easily you could pick up unwanted tinting from whatever the light is reflecting off of in that shade especially if it is foliage. Best thing in this case is to use as much natural stuff as can be found: Late Sun, Tall buildings or trees to provide indirect light and Still it'd be good to have a few flash guns just even out the lighting.
    tom wise
  • cbbrcbbr Registered Users Posts: 755 Major grins
    edited November 24, 2011
    Tom, I completely agree, but we are talking about kid team photos, not Vogue. Could there be a touch of tint, maybe. The photogs that do all of the team work here (I have 3 kids) do it that way, I do it that way, "Strobist" does it that way - it works quite well with one SB and a little shade from a tree and I have rarely been to a park without trees. That is location specific, but a single SB and an umbrella in shade with mid-day sun seems to be the the trick. Shoot at 1/250 and outside with a D80/OCF SB @ +.3 or +.6 EV and it is not likely to show up. A gel and preset WB should take care of any that is still there.

    But since a second is available, and as long as the Sunpack can be triggered, I think that I would put it on a stand with an umbrella dialed up, shoot the SB600 on TTL on camera to fill/trigger and fire away.

    No offense to the OP, but if you are shooting a D80 and SB-600, studio lights may not be the best place to blow the budget and the D80 with the SB will do the job fine if used correctly. The second flash on a stand/umbrella would do wonders. A reflector and someone to hold it can work all by itself, but may cause what Tom suggest with some tinting. First learn your equipment. Well. then figure out what you need to do it better/faster/cleaner. Just my $.02.
    Chad - www.brberrys.com
    If I post it, please tell me how to make it better. My fragile ego can take it.
  • angevin1angevin1 Registered Users Posts: 3,403 Major grins
    edited November 24, 2011
    cbbr wrote: »
    Tom, I completely agree, but we are talking about kid team photos, not Vogue.
    rolleyes1.gifValid point! And the Maybe on the tint is inline with your last great idea below!

    cbbr wrote: »
    First learn your equipment. Well. then figure out what you need to do it better/faster/cleaner.

    The OP didn't mention assistants, so hard to know about reflectors, stands and umbrellas. The wind has blown here all year, which has interfered with more than one shoot.
    tom wise
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 24,133 moderator
    edited November 24, 2011
    cbbr wrote: »
    Could you just put them in some shade and use the SB as fill?

    Open shade with a large reflector can work nicely, with or without a flash (key or fill).

    Deep shade and 2 flashes can be nice too. (Key plus fill.) Yes, light poisoning from foliage can be a problem, depending on the site and sky conditions. It would take some testing and then maybe some site management to work properly.

    With 4 - compact flashes you can have some reliable lighting control. I also use 2 - Flashpoint 1820a monolights (1800 effective WS) in direct sunlight, with the sun behind the subjects as possible, and get fairly good results.
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • smargitasmargita Registered Users Posts: 36 Big grins
    edited November 30, 2011
    Thank you for your help.
    I am not offended in any way, but as far as the comment on the D80/sb600 and not blowing the budget in lights - that's a valid point. Assuming I use the equipment correctly, would you say it's decent gear to get started in this work?
    Then as far as priorities go, what comes next - another flash, umbrellas, etc or a new camera (and which one)
    Thanks!


    - Steve
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