Boogie Time

black mamba

bdcolen

I'd love to love this, but between the harsh sunlight, shadows, black skin, clutter along the wall, and distance from which it's shot, I really can't. I do get the boogieing though. :-)

black mamba

bdcolen wrote: »

I'd love to love this, but between the harsh sunlight, shadows, black skin, clutter along the wall, and distance from which it's shot, I really can't. I do get the boogieing though. :-)

Well, BD, if you at least get the boogieing, you're forgiven.

It's a funny thing how folks react differently to an image. All the aspects you mention are, to me, the strong elements that attracted me to the scene. All that you see is as accurate of a presentation as I could make. That's all I ever try to do. I'm sure others will share your views...but, damn, I love this picture.

Tom

bfjr

black mamba wrote: »

Well, BD, if you at least get the boogieing, you're forgiven.

It's a funny thing how folks react differently to an image. All the aspects you mention are, to me, the strong elements that attracted me to the scene. All that you see is as accurate of a presentation as I could make. That's all I ever try to do. I'm sure others will share your views...but, damn, I love this picture.

Tom

Street music and the players are great fodder for images, but I have never had a successful one for the same reason. All that clutter they seem to drag along. It took me awhile to realize that the reason I love mine so, was the music that I heard and the memory of it.

Might be the same for you, just saying

RSL

Afraid I agree with BD, Tom. (Is that even possible, BD?) Looks like Hypolita street in St. Augustine, with the Columbia restaurant behind it. Is it?

black mamba

bfjr wrote: »

Street music and the players are great fodder for images, but I have never had a successful one for the same reason. All that clutter they seem to drag along. It took me awhile to realize that the reason I love mine so, was the music that I heard and the memory of it.

Might be the same for you, just saying

That's certainly an interesting observation, Ben. And it could well ring more true than I imagine. The truth is, however, I don't even see the clutter...or I don't interpret it as such. All I see is a couple of guys pounding out some notes and the real subjects of this picture ( the couple on the left ) reacting to it as they dance.

Thanks for taking the time to comment,

Tom

black mamba

RSL wrote: »

Afraid I agree with BD, Tom. (Is that even possible, BD?) Looks like Hypolita street in St. Augustine, with the Columbia restaurant behind it. Is it?

Nothing to be afraid of, Russ. This kind of stuff is always subjective and certainly is heavily weighted toward the experience of the shooter as he records the scene....experience, incidentally, that is hard to package up and pass along.

You did nail the location. It's a shame that this Columbia restaurant doesn't hold a candle to the one in Ybor City.

Tom

torags

Mamba I think the components are really good. I think it could have be tightened and composition improved up by shooting it at an angle

richardman

black mamba wrote: »

... The truth is, however, I don't even see the clutter...or I don't interpret it as such. All I see is a couple of guys pounding out some notes and the real subjects of this picture ( the couple on the left ) reacting to it as they dance.
...
Tom

Tom, you nailed it there yourself. You don't see the distractions, but nevertheless, the distractions are there. Some Great has said something to the effect that you know a photograph is great when you cannot remove a single element and not have it change to another picture. <-- and that Rag, to me is one reason why some photographs are art.

black mamba

torags wrote: »

Mamba I think the components are really good. I think it could have be tightened and composition improved up by shooting it at an angle

Now that, Rags, is an approach that has real merit. It would have been interesting to play that card...shoot with the dancing couple in the foreground, fading away to the keyboard player in the distance. Good suggestion.

Tom

black mamba

richardman wrote: »

Tom, you nailed it there yourself. You don't see the distractions, but nevertheless, the distractions are there. Some Great has said something to the effect that you know a photograph is great when you cannot remove a single element and not have it change to another picture. <-- and that Rag, to me is one reason why some photographs are art.

That's an enlightening take on things, Richard. Why does it make me think Pogo was talking to me when he said " We have met the enemy, and he is us "?

Tom

RSL

Tom, I've got a shot in the Elliott Erwitt tradition from directly across Hypolita street, but I need your permission to post on your thread.

black mamba

RSL wrote: »

Tom, I've got a shot in the Elliott Erwitt tradition from directly across Hypolita street, but I need your permission to post on your thread.

You're welcome to post it, Russ. I'd like to see it and others may enjoy it as well.

Tom

RSL

Hypolita street always has interesting things going on... If I were to turn about 100 degrees to the right I'd be looking at Tom's picture -- except those guys weren't there when I shot this one.

black mamba

AHHHH....Russ. I see you've met my pals. The dog claims that, on a good day, they can take in around $1,000. The guitar man backs up his story. In fact, I witnessed this guy do something that I thought was extraordinary. He went up to a couple of other street performers and gave each of them $100.00. He later told me that he wants to aid other performers that don't do nearly as well as he and the dog do. The guy is very educated and extremely articulate.

RSL

I don't doubt it a bit, Tom. That's one of the things I love about St. Aug. People there are laid back and generous. I've never had anybody even look at me crosseyed when I've shot their picture, even when I was banging away with the D3. Here's another one on Hypolita -- Scarlett's, on down at the corner of Cordova. I also shot "The Midnight Guitarist," that got me my latest Merit award in B&W magazine, on Hypolita at the corner of Spanish Street.

torags

Very nice shots guys...

bdcolen

black mamba wrote: »

That's certainly an interesting observation, Ben. And it could well ring more true than I imagine. The truth is, however, I don't even see the clutter...or I don't interpret it as such. All I see is a couple of guys pounding out some notes and the real subjects of this picture ( the couple on the left ) reacting to it as they dance.

Thanks for taking the time to comment,

Tom

I believe that what you've got here Tom is truly a classic problem in almost every form of photography. You saw a scene that captured your imagination. It had everything; light, shadow, movement, MUSIC, warm sun. It was a wonderful scene, of which you were a part, even if as an observer. Unfortunately, however, still photography cannot capture the music, the warmth of the sun, the way you felt when you saw it, the memories in evoked. All that was captured was what was there - harsh shadows, difficult skin tones, a ton of clutter. So that's what we see, while every time you look at the image, you see all the elements that were there, including those not captured in the photo.

black mamba

bdcolen wrote: »

I believe that what you've got here Tom is truly a classic problem in almost every form of photography. You saw a scene that captured your imagination. It had everything; light, shadow, movement, MUSIC, warm sun. It was a wonderful scene, of which you were a part, even if as an observer. Unfortunately, however, still photography cannot capture the music, the warmth of the sun, the way you felt when you saw it, the memories in evoked. All that was captured was what was there - harsh shadows, difficult skin tones, a ton of clutter. So that's what we see, while every time you look at the image, you see all the elements that were there, including those not captured in the photo.

You know, BD, in my heart of hearts, I believe you are right. When I am brutally honest with myself, I can recognize that I am probably incapable of accurately assessing the virtues, or lack thereof, of this photo. I can't divorce myself from my personal involvement in the scene. Just as I was immune to the distracting elements when I was there, I am still immune, in continuance, when I look at the picture.

Thanks, as always, for your comments,

Tom

rainbow

There is a lot that I like about this shot: each musician is interesting and the dancing couple really gives it a "feel good" quality. The building is also a visual treat with the arches, woodwork balcony, and fountain. Now there are technical flaws that keep it from being even better, but I would not regret taking and posting this shot as it stands. And you are right (and need not apologize) for still liking the shot.

Now what is missing is further exploration with subsequent shutter clicks. From the left is one angle, but so is from the right to feature the musician with the dancers being complementary instead of the subjects. The closer you get, the more the viewer is part of the environment instead of just an observer. Keep shooting street!

Richard

black mamba wrote: »

You know, BD, in my heart of hearts, I believe you are right. When I am brutally honest with myself, I can recognize that I am probably incapable of accurately assessing the virtues, or lack thereof, of this photo. I can't divorce myself from my personal involvement in the scene. Just as I was immune to the distracting elements when I was there, I am still immune, in continuance, when I look at the picture.

Thanks, as always, for your comments,

Tom

It's a tough problem for everyone, Tom. We humans are very good at selectively ignoring some things while focusing on others that are of greater importance. It's a skill that has evolved over millions of years because it has survival benefits--ignore the tall weeds, but notice the tiger, etc. It takes a lot of practice to see like the camera does. In this case, you could easily have been unaware of the concrete post and chain at the time you were shooting because there was so much more interesting stuff happening behind them. Maybe you were even able to ignore them when you were processing the shot. But I bet you see them now .

black mamba

rainbow wrote: »

There is a lot that I like about this shot: each musician is interesting and the dancing couple really gives it a "feel good" quality. The building is also a visual treat with the arches, woodwork balcony, and fountain. Now there are technical flaws that keep it from being even better, but I would not regret taking and posting this shot as it stands. And you are right (and need not apologize) for still liking the shot.

Now what is missing is further exploration with subsequent shutter clicks. From the left is one angle, but so is from the right to feature the musician with the dancers being complementary instead of the subjects. The closer you get, the more the viewer is part of the environment instead of just an observer. Keep shooting street!

Thank you for taking the time to express your views. I especially appreciate the encouragement to keep shooting street.

Tom

bdcolen

black mamba wrote: »

You know, BD, in my heart of hearts, I believe you are right. When I am brutally honest with myself, I can recognize that I am probably incapable of accurately assessing the virtues, or lack thereof, of this photo. I can't divorce myself from my personal involvement in the scene. Just as I was immune to the distracting elements when I was there, I am still immune, in continuance, when I look at the picture.

Thanks, as always, for your comments,

Tom

"I can't divorce myself from my personal involvement in the scene. Just as I was immune to the distracting elements when I was there, I am still immune, in continuance, when I look at the picture. "

A truly perfect summing up of a classic affliction from which ALL who photograph suffer; the reason why we are our own worst editors. clap

black mamba

Richard wrote: »

It's a tough problem for everyone, Tom. We humans are very good at selectively ignoring some things while focusing on others that are of greater importance. It's a skill that has evolved over millions of years because it has survival benefits--ignore the tall weeds, but notice the tiger, etc. It takes a lot of practice to see like the camera does. In this case, you could easily have been unaware of the concrete post and chain at the time you were shooting because there was so much more interesting stuff happening behind them. Maybe you were even able to ignore them when you were processing the shot. But I bet you see them now .

As usual, Richard, your insight and commentary is very welcome....and again, as usual, gets right to the core of an important consideration in this issue; what we " see " and what the camera records.

I was always very aware of the post and chain. I tried to avoid their inclusion but couldn't....not if I wanted to get all the people in the shot ( shooting from that perspective ). My attitude became..." Oh well, I wish these elements weren't there, but I can't help it ".

I keep going back to a comment Ben made about the issue of clutter....because how it's seen is apparently central to many folks reaction to the picture. Ben said he has never gotten a good picture of street musicians because of all their attendant, and very necessary, clutter of equipment . I dare say you'll never see them without that stuff. Does that mean, then, that we're to never shoot such a scene? I can't accept that. The clutter is an integral component of the reality that exists....if you want to record reality, as in this case, you pretty much have to accept some of the dark side to life....so to speak.

BD, in particular, made a comment about the stark light and dark shadows. Well, it was a very bright day with a white building and black shadows. The dynamic range was challenging, to say the least. I have no doubt, however, that someone with greater PP skills could have done a much better job than I did with the overall presentation....or at least have gotten it more to their own personal taste. I kind of like the sharp contrast evident, but that's really subjective.

The remark that BD made that really baffles me is the one about black people and skin tone. Jeez, BD, three of these people ARE black and the guitar player is so weathered and sun-tanned that he appeared to be damned near black. I'm not picking on you here, BD, but I just can't imagine where you're coming from on that point.

In the final analysis, I'm not really trying to defend the picture...it is what it is. I happen to like it a lot. But it's a long way from perfect and there have been many good comments made about how it might be improved. I am truly appreciative of that. BD, though, really went to the heart of the matter in his post above. Thanks, BD, for opening my eyes....and possibly other's as well....to a major problem I can now hope to at least minimize in the future.

Tom

bdcolen

black mamba wrote: »

As usual, Richard, your insight and commentary is very welcome....and again, as usual, gets right to the core of an important consideration in this issue; what we " see " and what the camera records.

I was always very aware of the post and chain. I tried to avoid their inclusion but couldn't....not if I wanted to get all the people in the shot ( shooting from that perspective ). My attitude became..." Oh well, I wish these elements weren't there, but I can't help it ".

I keep going back to a comment Ben made about the issue of clutter....because how it's seen is apparently central to many folks reaction to the picture. Ben said he has never gotten a good picture of street musicians because of all their attendant, and very necessary, clutter of equipment . I dare say you'll never see them without that stuff. Does that mean, then, that we're to never shoot such a scene? I can't accept that. The clutter is an integral component of the reality that exists....if you want to record reality, as in this case, you pretty much have to accept some of the dark side to life....so to speak.

BD, in particular, made a comment about the stark light and dark shadows. Well, it was a very bright day with a white building and black shadows. The dynamic range was challenging, to say the least. I have no doubt, however, that someone with greater PP skills could have done a much better job than I did with the overall presentation....or at least have gotten it more to their own personal taste. I kind of like the sharp contrast evident, but that's really subjective.

The remark that BD made that really baffles me is the one about black people and skin tone. Jeez, BD, three of these people ARE black and the guitar player is so weathered and sun-tanned that he appeared to be damned near black. I'm not picking on you here, BD, but I just can't imagine where you're coming from on that point.

In the final analysis, I'm not really trying to defend the picture...it is what it is. I happen to like it a lot. But it's a long way from perfect and there have been many good comments made about how it might be improved. I am truly appreciative of that. BD, though, really went to the heart of the matter in his post above. Thanks, BD, for opening my eyes....and possibly other's as well....to a major problem I can now hope to at least minimize in the future.

Tom

The comment about black people and skin tone simply had to do with the fact that multiple skin tones - some quite dark - added to the areas of bright light, further complicates the image.

black mamba

bdcolen wrote: »

The comment about black people and skin tone simply had to do with the fact that multiple skin tones - some quite dark - added to the areas of bright light, further complicates the image.

Got'cha. And, of course, you're right.

Tom

bfjr

I keep going back to a comment Ben made about the issue of clutter....because how it's seen is apparently central to many folks reaction to the picture. Ben said he has never gotten a good picture of street musicians because of all their attendant, and very necessary, clutter of equipment . I dare say you'll never see them without that stuff. Does that mean, then, that we're to never shoot such a scene? I can't accept that. The clutter is an integral component of the reality that exists....if you want to record reality, as in this case, you pretty much have to accept some of the dark side to life....so to speak.

Sometimes, but in most cases you still have to follow the normal convention of good photography.
Central Subject
Uncluttere/non distracting BK's
clean leading lines / composition
proper exposure / whatever that is
supporting elements etc. etc. I believe.

Hey nobody said it was easy ............... !

We of course break those above items here more then others :lol

I still contend that your hearing the music and feeling the vibes on this one.

black mamba

bfjr wrote: »

Sometimes, but in most cases you still have to follow the normal convention of good photography.
Central Subject
Uncluttere/non distracting BK's
clean leading lines / composition
proper exposure / whatever that is
supporting elements etc. etc. I believe.

Hey nobody said it was easy ............... !

We of course break those above items here more then others :lol

I still contend that your hearing the music and feeling the vibes on this one.

No question about it, Ben. You are absolutely right...I hear the music and feel the vibes. The point, though, is this; you and I both agree that you're never going to catch street musicians without all this clutter. I'm just saying that the presence of the clutter is not enough to deter me from capturing an image of an interesting slice of life. Clutter be damned....it's there, always is there, nothing I can do about it....I'm going to snap the shutter anyway and hope I got everything else right.

Tom

bfjr

black mamba wrote: »

No question about it, Ben. You are absolutely right...I hear the music and feel the vibes. The point, though, is this; you and I both agree that you're never going to catch street musicians without all this clutter. I'm just saying that the presence of the clutter is not enough to deter me from capturing an image of an interesting slice of life. Clutter be damned....it's there, always is there, nothing I can do about it....I'm going to snap the shutter anyway and hope I got everything else right.

Tom

Oh yes of course me as well
In fact if one I took yesterday at a Mall works out I'll throw up

lizzard_nyc

Hey Tom,
So yes I pretty much agree with everyone, however I still really like elements of this shot.
I really like that you captured the couple dancing off to the side, their own little show.

In reading all the comments I have to chuckle because I too have been there too many times.
I have a shot that I still love and I mean LOVE, one of my earlier street shots, and it was kind of demolished on viewing but I can't help but love it still.