Swim school Photos. Anyone done them?

Glort

I shot a golf day on Friday and delivered mag covers to all the players when they came in for lunch along with a DVD slide show set to music.
As usual went down a treat and I got asked about covering other golf days as well as what and where I could do the onsite printing.


What they are interested in is underwater pics of the kids which they have all had done before and worked well on the client side but there were various things I discussed with them they weren't happy with in dealing with the people doing it. All problems I can easily overcome and I don't blame them for being less than happy.

So I'm wondering if anyone has done this before and how they went about it?
I have some ideas but I'm always more than happy to steal better ones off other people!

Any tips, suggestions etc?

Snowgirl

Wow, that's quite a potential market. Good luck with that.

Mark Dickinson

Do something unique like an underwater shot of their launch for each of the individual shots.

Glort

A mate rang me yesterday when he was at a Council pool doing some maintenance.

I will have to do a through presentation package as the pools are all run buy local councils and they want copies of insurance, OH&S statements, work practice statements and the full catastrophe of red tape.

Mark Dickinson

YEah they are expensive:( I have an ikelite for d90 (the d700 version was a lot of money) but results are ok.

from facebook quality

aj986s

FWIW, you may want to look at some of the underwater housings available for some of the nicer P&S's. I bought one for my Canon G10 for around $200, and it works great; I've used it for occasional snorkeling adventures. The case has buttons giving you access to virtually all of the camera's functions, and is waterproof down to 130 ft. Here's a listing on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Canon-WP-DC28-Waterproof-PowerShot-Digital/dp/B001G5ZTQS/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1323440431&sr=1-1

Here's an example shot:


This would give you affordable underwater photography, and you can use your good gear above the water.

Glort

I bought a soft waterproof bag off flea bay to start with and shoot some samples over the summer Christmas break.
Been working on my business plan and the more I do, the more upsides I see.
I'm beginning to warm to the idea of this new venture.

Had a win yesterday when one of the guys I spoke to at the golf day rang my mate and wanted my details because he also got to thinking about doing this again and wants to line me up for it when swim school starts next year.
I'm not really worried, it's pretty straight forward on the product side, nothing i haven't and not doing already and once I get a feel for the cam underwater, dont see that being much of an issue either.
Some extra gear i'll have to get will be a good pair of goggles and maybe a weight belt.
not that i'm not plenty heavy enough already. just need some non buoyant weight!

Hopefully after a few months my weight with the belt on will come down to what it is now without one! :ivar

Art Scott

One thing not mentioned....you gotta breathe under there, not just keep the camera dry rofl

GerryDavid

This is all interesting, to bad there isnt really a market like that here.

Im surprised that you got so many lined up when you didnt have experience with underwater photography yet. Right place at the right time!

I cant imagine the panic attacks I would get if I lined just one of these up and had to photograph 2000+ kids in one school, in what I guess would be a short period of time.

Sam

Glort,

Please keep us posted on this project, and don't forget to pick up some SCUBA gear.

Sam

Glort

Sam,

For the next 5 weeks or so i'll be doing all the prep work with getting insurances, OH&S policys, workplace statements etc all organised as the pools are pretty much run by councils who want all the ducks in a very straight row.

The schools start up about mid feb so I won't have my feet in the water till then.

As for scuba gear, I think I'll be able to hold my breath as long as the littlies so should be right without that for the time being! :0)

Sam

Glort wrote: »

Sam,

For the next 5 weeks or so i'll be doing all the prep work with getting insurances, OH&S policys, workplace statements etc all organised as the pools are pretty much run by councils who want all the ducks in a very straight row.

The schools start up about mid feb so I won't have my feet in the water till then.

As for scuba gear, I think I'll be able to hold my breath as long as the littlies so should be right without that for the time being! :0)

Glort,

I would hope you can hold your breath that long, but I was thinking about doing it over and over, and how long will it be between the little ones? If the pace is slow enough no problem, but with a faster pace you could get tired much faster than you think. Then there is time it will take you to repetitively position yourself under water to take the shot then wait for the subjects to get in position, dive in etc.

Also with the numbers your quoting you could end up spending more time in water than a gold fish.

Sam

GerryDavid

Glort wrote: »

Not having done it before doesn't worry me in the slightest. I know I can use a camera and take photographs, the back end on the packaging and printing I have been doing for years, seriously, what's to worry about??
As for 2000 klids, I don't see it as much different to doing a sports club of 200 kids. I know the time it will take, I over allow slightly and when I come in under time or am running ahead, the organizers think I'm a legend because every other twit always runs late.
200 or 2000 is the same physical action, if your timing and workflow is right, you are just doing the same thing for longer. That's all there is to it.

Taking on something in a totally different environment is different than photographing a different species. Being underwater, using casings that handle different than usual camera gear, and fighting with boyance as well as something important like breathing underwater may affect the results you can get. Its something I would want to practice with before promising important groups like that.

How are you going to breathe underwater? scuba gear or something more simple like a modified snorkle with a long hose to the surface *think they use to do something like that long time ago, with a lever to pump air down?*

Glort wrote: »

I seem to recall you had a lot of business ideas last year Gerry. I'd be interested to hear how they are going for you and what has worked out the best.
Forums are a bit like the news. You always hear the initial story but rarely the follow up.

Which ideas are you referring to? I get many ideas but I dont have enough time to implement them all.

I did contact many hair salons, and only one seemed remotely interested, not the response I had envisioned considering most of them have a fraction of the business they usually do in January and one would think they would be eager to increase their profits and customer base. This reminds me that I need to go around to the ones I havent contacted yet and some that I did, to see if they are interested now that thier revenue has decreased.

I did implement my senior representative program last year and got a pretty good response. I didnt get many referrals from them on average so this year im changing things up a bit, the opening deal is not as sweet but the referral rewards are much better to give more motivation.

I did increase my prices last year, raising the price of my prints by a factor of 2.5, and I created package with a minimum which has helped sales, and I started offering more large ticket items that has done pretty well.

Glort

Sam wrote: »

Glort,

If the pace is slow enough no problem, but with a faster pace you could get tired much faster than you think. Then there is time it will take you to repetitively position yourself under water to take the shot then wait for the subjects to get in position, dive in etc.

Also with the numbers your quoting you could end up spending more time in water than a gold fish.

Sam

Yes, I suppose that is a point.

I'm kinda looking forward to the physical activity of it. i see it as a kind of water aerobics and the doctor has been hammering me to loose weight due to my Diabetes so i think some exercise with purpose and profit will be a great thing for me.

Glort

I officially booked my first centres today.
Start next Tuesday.

GerryDavid

Whats your technique for sales sessions? im just curious what you found works for you to save you time and get the most sales. with one on one picture viewing for 1600 kids and their parents, it may take a while to get through them all so im thinking you probably have a more efficient way.

Snowgirl

You are going to be a very busy person for the time to come. Good for you! Hope the health holds up.

GerryDavid

pre printing does make things easier. do you get many extra sales/custom items? How many pics per student do you think you will have?

GerryDavid

Ive tried to sell some of the gimmicky stuff like moo stickers, etc, but they didnt sell. Ive had luck with storyboards which have to be sold as a 11x14 or larger, and accordion albums, but it takes time from them to decide what 9 pictures to put in them and where. Then keepsake albums that can have 20 or more pictures take een longer to get organized, but they are worth it $$$ to me. Some are easy going and let me decide where to place the pictures, and others want to make all the choices, which I dont mind when I have time but in a big event like that, one doesnt have time. I guess if I were to do a swim even like this I would have those bigger things on display with a note if someone was interested, to schedule a seperate picture viewing.

Glort

Clients taking time to choose pics can be a problem. I often see people standing at my Vstations for ages and when you go over to help them you see they are trying to decide over 2 pics which for all intents and purposes are identical. I used to do wedding album plans and that was nothing to take 4 hours to do that. Now -I- do the album layout, show them on the computer and they will generally change 2-3 pages and that's it.

bmxbandit

After taking pics of my little boy at his swim school, I have had a similar idea. His school has about 3,000 students. I just discovered this thread today and was reading with bated breath.

I have to run now, but I will come back and read it carefully again. And then fire off a billion questions and hope that you have time to answer a few.

I like your moxie.

If I was in Sydney, I'd be calling you to see if you needed any help.
Cheers,
Scott

angevin1

David, You're spanking it! Nice work!

Glort

I have done 2 days of the second phase of the job, selling the images.
Get an underwater bag that takes a flash for the indoor centres and sell the underwater camera POS I bought which is useless.

Sam

Glort,

Thanks for your comprehensive posting on this. Would it be possible to see any of these images? Send link via email, etc? I am not interested in snatching any.....:D Trying to link your verbal info posted with the income, time to print and image quality.

I haven't tried to photograph anything with this level of image quantities, and trying learn a little.

Thanks!

Sam

MJRPHOTO

+1 Please post a typical photo. This thread is worthlees without a photo!!! Ha.

angevin1

Flash is a good idea! Think that'll Help with your WB too?

angevin1

Glort wrote: »

They are pretty run of the mill stuff, it's definitely a case of getting what you can as quick as you can rather than creating art and I sure haven't done anything special with the pics themselves.

No. I'd say with what you're into here it's about not missing the Shot, catch your breath and don't miss the next Shot.

I think adding that flash, getting that WB inline with your intent and simple time for assimilation and these will be more than run of the mill for them, the clients.

GerryDavid

Glort wrote: »

I think it will. What I'm reading on conventional underwater photography says that flash is important because it puts the red back in the scene that the water filters out.
That said, the majority of underwater pics to which I think these articles refer would be at a lot greater depths than the 1-3 feet max I'm shooting at.

None the less, having a stable light source on the subject if nothing else will make things a lot easier.
The backgrounds are a very secondary consideration once the skin tone on the subject is correct.
The other thing i'm wary of is what they call back scatter which is the flash being close to the lens illuminating the particles in the water. Again i'm guessing this is a lot more of a consideration in the sea than in the Highly filtered pools I'm going to but something I'm aware of anyway.

I have a mate who works in the pool industry that is quie excited about me doing this and has been ringing me with daily reports of where he has been and the people he has sussed out. He's even going to pools where he knows they are looked into a contract with someone else for his services just so he can sus the place out as to water quality and price and numbers in their swim school.

I was talking to him last night about the centers I was going to go hit up to shoot there and he told me to go see one and gave me some inside info on the manager but to hold off on the others till he checks a couple more out this coming week so he can see which ones would be best.
I'm really quite comfortable going in and selling myself but I guess if he can work out the larger and potentially more profitable ones, that will be a good asset.

I'm also thinking about presenting a pre-paid concept to some of the schools in the areas I figure I'm more behind the 8 ball on getting a good return. I spoke to the swim school manager about it yesterday and she thought it was a brilliant Idea and would love to do it. Unfortunately being council run they are so anal retentive she said she wouldn't have a hope in hell of getting it through as they are the final decision makers BUT, she highly encouraged me to try it with the private centers that do have more flexibility in what they do.

I'll try to find time ( but mostly motivation) to put some pics up. They are pretty run of the mill stuff, it's definitely a case of getting what you can as quick as you can rather than creating art and I sure haven't done anything special with the pics themselves.

I am looking forward to the pictures to! Are you including any advertisements with the prints to get more business from them like family portraits? An online gallery to sell more beyond the package they can get at the pool?

Sam

Glort,

I understand from your posts that the images aren't great works of art. I know your selling them at a rate to make the venture profitable.

I am trying to see what quality is acceptable to people for this type of photo and price point. I tend to think in terms of high quality but at the volume you, or any project like this requires it would be impossible to shoot raw and process each image individually.

It's not to critique or anything.

Sam

GerryDavid

Which bag are you using with your Canon T3i? And which lens?

You mentioned that you may get 3 more printers so you can print the pictures faster, but you also said that you are stuffing the packages a bit slower than you are already printing the pictures. Do you plan to hire an assistant to get the packages ready?

How many pictures are you taking of each kid in general? It must be fun trying to pick the best 3 of each one pretty quickly, and trying to keep them sorted. Hopefully each kid has a unique swimsuit so its easier to separate them.

It would be fun seeing a video of you doing your thing Did you say you use a scuba tank or a hose to the surface to breathe underwater or something?

GerryDavid

Glort wrote: »

The Vid isn't a bad idea!
I'm shooting tomorrow and want my son to come with me so I can train him up ( kicking and screaming as he will be) maybe I should get him to shoot some promo footage. When I did a camera test the other week my Daughter did some quite good shots of me with the camera with her new P&S waterproof cam she got for Christmas. ( Her request, not my idea! )

Everyone keeps telling me about breathing underwater with snorkels and tanks etc but there is no need. I don't even stick my head under the water. I merely get the lens under the water and keep the cam high enough so I can still see through the finder and shoot like that.
One mother during the week noticed I didn't even take my Sun glasses off when I was shooting.

Im looking forward to the video.

I was picturing this all wrong, I was thinking you were taking a picture from the bottom of the pool looking towards the sky.

how much does each package cost you to print? in terms of paper and ink?

Do you have a large wall print of some of your best work? and info on packages? It may get the attention of the walker byers.

An idea to get additional sales that may not cost you much extra is to offer a cd of 5 pictures at medium res or something. get the prints for $20, get the cd for $30, get both for $40. It may help with sales and not be much of an extra expense. CD's are pretty cheap here so you can go ahead and premake them or make them on demand. Im all about the up sales, but not in a pushy way plus on a cd you can put more advertising, portfolio examples, etc. the pictures will probably take up 3mb, may as well take advantage of the other 697mb but keeping it fairly small so it burns fast.