Ethical Question

Z06Nut

Ethical Question<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Is it ethical or emotionally correct to photoshop a person with a facal deformity to make them look symmetrical?

I took photos of this beautiful little girl. I didn't notice her Cleft lip until I was processing her photos. You could tell she had Bilateral complete lip and palate surgery. I corrected it and the photo looks great but I don't know how they will feel about it.
Anyone have any experience with this type situation?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

threecubed

Not speaking as a photographer, but as a mother (albeit not a mother of a child with a cleft lip), I think I'd be offended if someone did that kind of a retouch on my daughter's picture. I remove temporary blemishes like bruises or scrapes when I edit my own daughter's pictures, but wouldn't modify anything permanent, as that's what makes her uniquely her, kwim?

Sam

I think the basic rule of thumb is if it's a temp blemish, cut, bruise it's fine to totally remove it. With other permanent items like scars, moles, or in your case a disfigurement I would look at some mild enhancement, slight reshape, reduced emphasis. The key here is to not remove the item in question or for the adjustments to be noticeable. The idea is to deliver a photo that makes the person look their best, but not phoney.

As an example I took a photo of a friends mom who is in her late 80's. She has wrinkles and age spots etc. I reduced the sharpness wrinkles slightly, and age spots slightly. I didn't remove any just reduced the visual impact. My friend and her mom loved the photo and nether noticed the processing.

Sam

Peano

I took photos of this beautiful little girl. I didn't notice her Cleft lip until I was processing her photos. You could tell she had Bilateral complete lip and palate surgery. I corrected it and the photo looks great but I don't know how they will feel about it.

I'd say that's the key to your question: What do the girl's parents want? Ask them.

Art Scott

Z06Nut wrote: »

Ethical Question<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Is it ethical or emotionally correct to photoshop a person with a facal deformity to make them look symmetrical?

I took photos of this beautiful little girl. I didn't notice her Cleft lip until I was processing her photos. You could tell she had Bilateral complete lip and palate surgery. I corrected it and the photo looks great but I don't know how they will feel about it.
Anyone have any experience with this type situation?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

Peano wrote: »

[/INDENT] I'd say that's the key to your question: What do the girl's parents want? Ask them.

I Totally Agree...Ask the Parents or saimply give them a choice of images to choose from....If I have people with age spots or wrinkles or moes or whatever i give them the best possible image with NO real enhancements then I deliver 2-4 that I have run thru PS or Portrait Pro, that way they are not offended by me implying this is how you should look...but rather here are different processes for you to decide which you like... ... ...

Good Luck and please do let us know the Parents reaction ...

Icebear

Did the parents ask you to photograph the child, or was this a candid opportunity? If they asked for the shots, I would have assumed they'd have told you if they DID want radical cosmetic surgery. Me, I wouldn't presume to even show them any shots that did more than de-emphasize it unless they'd asked for it or mentioned it. And I personally would not ask. IMO you do run the risk of offending. Good luck.

threecubed

Icebear wrote: »

Did the parents ask you to photograph the child, or was this a candid opportunity? If they asked for the shots, I would have assumed they'd have told you if they DID want radical cosmetic surgery. Me, I wouldn't presume to even show them any shots that did more than de-emphasize it unless they'd asked for it or mentioned it. And I personally would not ask. IMO you do run the risk of offending. Good luck.

I agree with this 100%. I think it's a lot more significant than removing some wrinkles or a mole. I'd assume they may be VERY sensitive about it.

Peano

Icebear wrote: »

Me, I wouldn't presume to even show them any shots that did more than de-emphasize it unless they'd asked for it or mentioned it.

He wouldn't have to show it. He could simply tell them that he can edit the defect and ask them if they'd like to see a version done that way.

Richard

While this may be an emotionally charged issue for both the parents and the child, I don't see this as an ethical question at all. Presumably, this is not photojournalism (where alterations are not allowed). If the parents want some retouching, that's fine, do it. If not, that's their call. All you can do is offer the choice and let the client decide.

Islandcrow

I'm with Threecubed and Icebear. If I were the parent, I may be at least a little offended if the photographer even asked if I wanted him to remove the "defect". That's part of who their child is. This isn't a fashion shoot. Implying that their child isn't perfect exactly the way she is doesn't sound like a good approach to me. If they want you to do something about it in the photo, I'm sure they'll ask.

rhommel

I wouldn't even ask the parents if I can edit the photos or not.

every child is perfect.

I would definitely take offense If I was the parent (client) and the photographer would edit the photos without my permission.

That just says that the photographer THINKS there is something wrong with my daughter. To me as a parent, that's an insult that I may not be able to handle properly.

as a matter of fact, I would still take offense if a photographer EVEN suggests to photoshop my daughter's photos.

my 2 cents anyway

ziggy53

Digital photography can indeed exaggerate scars and rosacea, for instance. It would not be out of place to "tone down" the affected area in order to bring it back to what you would see naked eye.

My normal treatment is to use the Select - Color Range in Photoshop and then visually adjust the lightened/darkened-red area to more closely match the surrounding skin. This usually involves some minor Hue adjustment as well as Lightness adjustment in the Image - Adjustments - Hue/Saturation.

Peano

I wouldn't establish my own preference as a moral measure for others. If I
wouldn't want any such editing done on my child, it doesn't follow that
others must think as I do. For all I know, their reaction might well be, "We
were afraid to ask. But, yes, we would love to see a version with those edits!"

A core ethical issue here is about showing respect for the parents. Which do
you think is more respectful: Allowing them to decide for themselves, or
pre-empting their choice by remaining silent? I would tell them I have the skills
to edit the blemish if they'd like to see a version done that way; and if not,
I can deliver a nice picture of their beautiful daughter just as she is.

Don't assume that the parents feel as you do, and don't assume that they feel
differently. Show them the respect of asking, tactfully, what their wishes are.

threecubed

Peano wrote: »

I wouldn't establish my own preference as a moral measure for others. If I
wouldn't want any such editing done on my child, it doesn't follow that
others must think as I do. For all I know, their reaction might well be, "We
were afraid to ask. But, yes, we would love to see a version with those edits!"

A core ethical issue here is about showing respect for the parents. Which do
you think is more respectful: Allowing them to decide for themselves, or
pre-empting their choice by remaining silent? I would tell them I have the skills
to edit the blemish if they'd like to see a version done that way; and if not,
I can deliver a nice picture of their beautiful daughter just as she is.

Don't assume that the parents feel as you do, and don't assume that they feel
differently. Show them the respect of asking, tactfully, what their wishes are.

I understand what you're saying, but I think it's taking a huge unnecessary risk to suggest to the parents that their child has a "blemish" or "defect" that you think they might want you to "fix". It's their child you're taking about - their perfect, flawless child. If they want it modified, I think they would have brought it up.

I have a friend whose daughter has cerebral palsy and I know even the slightest hint from someone else that there is something "wrong" with her child is so highly offensive to her that she would definitely never do business again with someone who make such a suggestion. I can see making a slight adjustment to tone it down so it's not more obvious than it would be to the naked eye, but offering to radically correct runs the risk of seriously offending the parent and making them think twice about their choice of photographers. I just don't see any good coming from asking about it, and the potential for a lot of anger and resentment. I think they'd likely order more prints if the photographer never brings it up.

Peano

threecubed wrote: »

I understand what you're saying, but I think it's taking a huge unnecessary risk to suggest to the parents that their child has a "blemish" or "defect" that you think they might want you to "fix". It's their child you're taking about - their perfect, flawless child. If they want it modified, I think they would have brought it up.

I have a friend whose daughter has cerebral palsy and I know even the slightest hint from someone else that there is something "wrong" with her child is so highly offensive to her that she would definitely never do business again with someone who make such a suggestion. I can see making a slight adjustment to tone it down so it's not more obvious than it would be to the naked eye, but offering to radically correct runs the risk of seriously offending the parent and making them think twice about their choice of photographers. I just don't see any good coming from asking about it, and the potential for a lot of anger and resentment. I think they'd likely order more prints if the photographer never brings it up.

We've reached a point where we can agree to disagree about this.

donnahde

Peano wrote: »

We've reached a point where we can agree to disagree about this.

I agree that it's a tough call. I just went to your site, Peano, and your photoshopping before and after section is awesome. I'm sure if the parents of such a child saw those options and were interested in your enhancing their child's images they'd ask. It's not as obvious on others' sites that those enhancements are possible. Personally I'd be hesitant about asking.

Qarik

cleft lip is a defining characteristic of a person. think about it. removing it changes everything about the image and projection of the person. no way would I remove it or suggest it or offer correction to he parents.

Peano

Qarik wrote: »

cleft lip is a defining characteristic of a person. think about it. removing it changes everything about the image and projection of the person. no way would I remove it or suggest it or offer correction to he parents.

I went through grade school and high school with someone who had a facial defect. He would never have his picture taken for the school yearbook because of that defect. But in his senior year of high school, he had his picture taken. Why? Because the photographer retouched seniors' pictures and could remove the defect.

Thousands of people have surgery to correct "defining" characteristics like a cleft lip. Such people might also like to have it "surgically" removed in Photoshop. Again: Don't assume that everyone shares your values. Just ask, tactfully. There's no insult in asking.

rhommel

Peano wrote: »

I went through grade school and high school with someone who had a facial defect. He would never have his picture taken for the school yearbook because of that defect. But in his senior year of high school, he had his picture taken. Why? Because the photographer retouched seniors' pictures and could remove the defect.

Thousands of people have surgery to correct "defining" characteristics like a cleft lip. Such people might also like to have it "surgically" removed in Photoshop. Again: Don't assume that everyone shares your values. Just ask, tactfully. There's no insult in asking.

I don't think you can compare an 18 year old to a little girl and if there's no insult in asking, then everyone would have agreed with you. I for one don't.

I have a question for the OP

Why did you edit the photo in the first place? It won't look good on YOUR portfolio if you didn't edit? You think that the little girl looks BETTER without the deformity? What is it?

Bend The Light

I have a daughter who had a cleft palate (not lip) but my family and I spend a lot of time with families with children with clefts, both repaired and not.
What is interesting is that when a child has a repair, however good, the parents LOSE the child they had before. My daughter no longer makes sounds she made before her palate repair. I have recordings of those sounds. I miss these sounds. I wouldn't delete them because they were not "normal" sounds.

The parents "MAY" lose the child they love if you cover up the lip repair...it can be as extreme as MOURNING the loss.

From my point of view, my child is my child, with her glasses, her squint, her hearing aids. If that's the photo you too, then those things are there...leave them alone. If you did a "repair" on my little girl, it wouldn't be my little girl. It would be a photo of someone else and of no interest to me.

You could ask the parents, and to be honest, people with children with disabilities, or deformaities, are quite resiliant...but I bet the answer will be "Leave it as it is...that's our little girl".

kitkos

Z06Nut wrote: »

Ethical Question<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Is it ethical or emotionally correct to photoshop a person with a facal deformity to make them look symmetrical?

I took photos of this beautiful little girl. I didn't notice her Cleft lip until I was processing her photos. You could tell she had Bilateral complete lip and palate surgery. I corrected it and the photo looks great but I don't know how they will feel about it.
Anyone have any experience with this type situation?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

I am in agreement that you can touchup blemishes and the like but should only minimize permanent items unless asked by the subject or parent to alter completely.

My biggest concern is that you didn't notice this until post. If this is so obvious in the photos, how did you have missed it during the shoot? I suggest a liitle more time studying your subject before getting behind the camera will allow you to pose the subject in such a way to minimize deformities.

Peano

Bend The Light wrote: »

I have a daughter who had a cleft palate (not lip) but my family and I spend a lot of time with families with children with clefts, both repaired and not.
What is interesting is that when a child has a repair, however good, the parents LOSE the child they had before. My daughter no longer makes sounds she made before her palate repair. I have recordings of those sounds. I miss these sounds. I wouldn't delete them because they were not "normal" sounds.

The parents "MAY" lose the child they love if you cover up the lip repair...it can be as extreme as MOURNING the loss.

From my point of view, my child is my child, with her glasses, her squint, her hearing aids. If that's the photo you too, then those things are there...leave them alone. If you did a "repair" on my little girl, it wouldn't be my little girl. It would be a photo of someone else and of no interest to me.

You could ask the parents, and to be honest, people with children with disabilities, or deformaities, are quite resiliant...but I bet the answer will be "Leave it as it is...that's our little girl".

Well-said. It's important to distinguish two questions here: 1) Should the picture be retouched? 2) Should the parents be informed that such retouching is available to them?

My point (made several times now) is that #1 is for the parents to answer. Only #2 is for the retoucher, and the answer to that one is yes -- because we can't know in advance how the parents would answer #1. Tactfully offer them the option, then respect their decision.