job hunting sucks

Ann McRae

So, if you were in the HR department, and a resume listing:
B.Sc. Honors Genetics from 1985
several years university and college teaching experience from the 80s and 90s.
10 years business ownership
20 years volunteer service, including leadership

would you laugh, would you pitch due to lack of specific key words, or would you say
'hey, this person is capable of a wide range of things, looks pretty talented'?

Well, mostly they are laughing
"how does one go from genetics to business and now want to do marketing or EA roles"?
:dunno

I've had a no warning phone interview at 8:30 p.m. on a Sunday night of a really busy weekend, asking questions that were nothing like the actual job posting. Blew that one, I did. Coulda been the cabernet......

I have my resume in for 2 jobs I'd really like - one as marketing person for ....wine......
and one as program coordinator at a college in the Science faculty.
Not really much like each other, not a specific 'kind' of job, but both sound challenging and interesting.


ann

Harryb

Ann McRae wrote:

So, if you were in the HR department, and a resume listing:
B.Sc. Honors Genetics from 1985
several years university and college teaching experience from the 80s and 90s.
10 years business ownership
20 years volunteer service, including leadership

would you laugh, would you pitch due to lack of specific key words, or would you say
'hey, this person is capable of a wide range of things, looks pretty talented'?

Well, mostly they are laughing
"how does one go from genetics to business and now want to do marketing or EA roles"?


I've had a no warning phone interview at 8:30 p.m. on a Sunday night of a really busy weekend, asking questions that were nothing like the actual job posting. Blew that one, I did. Coulda been the cabernet......

I have my resume in for 2 jobs I'd really like - one as marketing person for ....wine......
and one as program coordinator at a college in the Science faculty.
Not really much like each other, not a specific 'kind' of job, but both sound challenging and interesting.


ann

Job hunting is really sucky unless you have one while you're hunting. The resume must work since you have received one phone interview already. Most folks who have gotten jobs or whom I've placed have gotten in through contacts. You have to work on all your friends and acquaintances for possible leads.

Shay Stephens

I hear ya
If there is one thing I hate more than moving, it's job hunting. I did so much of it that I decided to hire myself. Now the only one who can lay me off is me ;-)

Shakey

I wish you luck Ann. And I hope you find something you really enjoy like wine marketing.
With Alberta's economy booming there are lots of jobs . Here is to you getting your Dream Job:slurp .
Keep positive

Tim

PossumCorner

Job Hunting - what an ordeal!
Agreed Ann, and I was wondering how it was going for you, this answers it.

I sure share your anger and frustration at the difficulties. All my "old" talents have been overtaken by technology and gung-ho secretaries are no longer required. Yet because my resume shows a career of working for some high profiles and exotic locations, do I get job offers - just the opposite. "Oh, you have had such interesting/fascinating positions you would be bored here and wouldn't stay long". Or "You are over-qualified, we only need a Junior". I try to tell them I would not be bored, particularly when able to pay my telephone and electricity account. Deaf ears. My present part-time job is only a short term position so any-day-now I expect to be back to writing applications. Just in time for Christmas, lovely.

I'd kill for your qualifications, but it is the same here in Australia, youngsters with good degrees but no experience selling kitchenware because they don't have experience. Older people with great experience and decent qualifications working in Woolworths selling kitchenware because they don't fall into the age niche which employers want.

And when you can only win temporary positions, so your resume shows a recent string of short-term jobs, interviewers say "why do you keep leaving jobs?"

Give me strength!! I stay mostly in work only because I compromise and accept "anything" like the customer-service, tele-sales, junk jobs. But the more of them on a resume, the less likelihood of being offered a real quality administrative position. But leaving the rubbish jobs off the resume shows a gap for them to focus on and query the months not accounted for. Talk about your viscious circle, more like a whirlpool.

It does suck for sure, but a top job will come along sooner or later for us both I hope. (The dogs keep me sane).

Sam

Ann,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

Laugh? Are you kidding? You have a lot to be proud of.<o:p></o:p>

I see a few issues to address.<o:p></o:p>

You are correct about being specific. Most employers are looking for light bulbs. If they need a 50-watt bulb, they tend not to look at 100-watt bulbs.<o:p></o:p>

Also when moving from owning your business back to the status of employee, they will probably have some concern about how your going to function within their organization. <o:p></o:p>

Most successful self employed people I ever knew were strong willed, and little ornery. <o:p></o:p>

My thoughts on this would be think about the positions you’re interested in and articulate to the interviewer why you want the position and how your experience and knowledge will benefit them. Though your resume may on the surface not appear to be a match, perhaps you could explain how you’re scientific, educational, and real world business owner / management experience would be both unique, and highly valuable.

Good luck!!!


Sam<o:p></o:p>

David_S85

Ann McRae wrote:

I've had a no warning phone interview at 8:30 p.m. on a Sunday night of a really busy weekend, asking questions that were nothing like the actual job posting. Blew that one, I did. Coulda been the cabernet......

ann

No, it was the caller. If they had the nerve to call you at 8:30pm on a Sunday night, what other stupid hoops would they have you jump through for that job. Nope... let that one go. Wouldn't have worked out.

Keep pluggin, girl. You've got the experience to do almost anything.

gluwater

MMmmmmmmm..........Cabernet
I agree that that was pretty rude of someone to call for an interview at 8:30 PM on a Sunday night. My heart goes out to you in your job search. Good luck, especially on the one for marketing wine, that sound interesting and I hope you get free samples!

ian408

Your resume has a lot of experience but it's all over the map. I think that
might be part of the problem.

Do you know what you'd like to do? If you're specific, you can make your
resume stand out. Take the wine marketing gig.

Your skills in genetics will help you understand the varietals and importance
of the various types of grafts that might be used in the vineyard. In turn,
this knowledge will help you tell the story to the public.

What you need to do is make your resume tell the recruiter why
he or she should invite you for an interview. Play the skills that you
have to the role you want at that company--emphasis on genetics,
organizational skill and the various tasks you perform as a small business
owner. If you're looking at something else, adjust your resume accordingly.

Resume writing sucks. And the hard part is knowing what someone else
that's reading it wants to know. Eventually, it'll work out.

Best of luck to you Ann!
Ian

Ann McRae

Harryb wrote:

Job hunting is really sucky unless you have one while you're hunting. The resume must work since you have received one phone interview already. Most folks who have gotten jobs or whom I've placed have gotten in through contacts. You have to work on all your friends and acquaintances for possible leads.

Hey Harry

I actually got 'this close' to getting a job - wrote a competency exam, interviewed, had my references checked, and finished 3rd for 2 positions. Came down to the HR person having too score specific competencies like which email program I used....
Would have been in a super cool environment, but was an admin job which may have been dull.

My contacts right now are either my customers - truckdrivers and other small businessmen - or soccer parents. I'm working the parents, but haven't gotten any really good leads yet.

ann

Ann McRae

Shay Stephens wrote:

If there is one thing I hate more than moving, it's job hunting. I did so much of it that I decided to hire myself. Now the only one who can lay me off is me ;-)

Hey Shay - after being self employed for over 10 years, let me tell you my recent insight -
you have no supervisory references - HR departments rely on those, and some even have a policy against hiring anyone that has been self employed

when you actually do have to lay yourself off (which is what I am going through), what then? where to go?

I've been told that being self employed is like having been out of the workforce for that many years!

ann

Sam

Ann McRae wrote:

Hey Harry

I actually got 'this close' to getting a job - wrote a competency exam, interviewed, had my references checked, and finished 3rd for 2 positions. Came down to the HR person having too score specific competencies like which email program I used....
Would have been in a super cool environment, but was an admin job which may have been dull.

My contacts right now are either my customers - truckdrivers and other small businessmen - or soccer parents. I'm working the parents, but haven't gotten any really good leads yet.

ann

Ann,

Life isn't fair. I understand too well what your going through. Draw on your experience, and believe in your self. If you don't believe in your self, no one else will.

In photography we buy the best equipmet we can afford, study all the techniques, practice, and take thousands of photos. Still there no guarantee you will get even one good photo. Why do we continue? Because we believe that if we keep trying we will get that good shot, and we usually do.

Keep trying, pursuing a job is like photography, the more photos you take, the better your chances of getting that great photo.

The more doors you knock on, and the more interviews you have, the more contacts you make the better your chances of getting that great job.

If you keep picking your self back up you can not fail.


Sam

mercphoto

Ann McRae wrote:

So, if you were in the HR department, and a resume listing:
B.Sc. Honors Genetics from 1985
several years university and college teaching experience from the 80s and 90s.
10 years business ownership
20 years volunteer service, including leadership

would you laugh, would you pitch due to lack of specific key words, or would you say 'hey, this person is capable of a wide range of things, looks pretty talented'?

Not having the entire resume in front of me, having only that portion above to go on, and not knowing what type of work you are looking for, I'd say I have no idea what your experiences are or what you are good at. One thing you might want to consider is if your resume comes across as so broad that you look like a jack of all trades and a master of none.

Ann McRae

Shakey wrote:

I wish you luck Ann. And I hope you find something you really enjoy like wine marketing.
With Alberta's economy booming there are lots of jobs . Here is to you getting your Dream Job:slurp .
Keep positive

Tim

Hey Tim - where've you been?
With the booming economy and the 'lots of jobs' there are also lots of applicants - something like an average of 350 per posted job. The key is finding the secret recipe that gets you beyond the HR person and their file 'g'. And my added problem is I don't really know what I want to be when I grow up, so I am applying all over the map and with a comprehensive but generic resume.

Thanks!
ann

mercphoto

Ann McRae wrote:

And my added problem is I don't really know what I want to be when I grow up, so I am applying all over the map and with a comprehensive but generic resume.

That is probably the bulk of your job hunting problem. If you don't know what you want, how will anyone else know if they should hire you? I would try to make the resume less generic. This might mean you tailor the resume for each job you send the resume too. Highlight what it is in your comprehensive resume that is most interesting to them, and put less attention on the rest of the resume. Lastly, how long is your resume? You said it was comprehensive. If that means "its very long" that can hurt you as well.

gluwater

mercphoto wrote:

That is probably the bulk of your job hunting problem. If you don't know what you want, how will anyone else know if they should hire you? I would try to make the resume less generic. This might mean you tailor the resume for each job you send the resume too. Highlight what it is in your comprehensive resume that is most interesting to them, and put less attention on the rest of the resume. Lastly, how long is your resume? You said it was comprehensive. If that means "its very long" that can hurt you as well.

I would agree with this. Don't use one resume, if you don't want to change your resume for each position then maybe make 3 or 4 that are different but each is for a specific type of job. I would also suggest using an individualized cover letter for each position you apply for. Also consider writing thank you letters for interviews, use paper and mail it or drop it off rather than an e-mail, it may take a little longer to get there but it makes people feel special to recieve real mail and know you are taking the position seriously. I know some of these things may seem a little dumb or maybe overkill but it may just be one of these little things that gets the HR person to like you enough to give you the job instead of making you #3. Again Good Luck!

flyingpylon

FWIW, I agree that you should use more than one resume. And if you do this, be sure to make a note about which resume you sent to each company so that you can be consistent when speaking to them later.

Also, don't just consider writing thank you notes, do it! I just read somewhere recently that something like close to 50% of employers would think less of an applicant if they did not send a thank you. I don't know all of the specifics, but the point is, it's worth doing.

The purpose of a resume is not to get a job (which it will never do on its own), it's to get you an interview. If you're getting interviews, then you should at least feel good about that, even if you and the perfect opportunity have not yet crossed paths. Good luck with your search.

Shay Stephens

Yes, I agree with this too. Specialize, focus on something. It like a cheetah looking for a meal. If they look at all those tasty gazelles at once, there is no way to catch one. You have to zero in on one and pursue it. Otherwise, they all shine their flashy white tails and dazzle you, next thing you know, the dust clears and you are all by yourself.

It is more work, but customize the resume. Concentrate on a subject, field, or industry. If that focused area doesn't pay out, then move on to another field that interests you. That way in interviewing you are more focused, your resume is more focused, and the employer sees they are getting someone interested in their business, not just someone "looking for a job". Someone "looking for a job" is a dime a dozen, but someone looking to excel in XYZ does not come around too often.

gluwater wrote:

I would agree with this. Don't use one resume, if you don't want to change your resume for each position then maybe make 3 or 4 that are different but each is for a specific type of job. I would also suggest using an individualized cover letter for each position you apply for. Also consider writing thank you letters for interviews, use paper and mail it or drop it off rather than an e-mail, it may take a little longer to get there but it makes people feel special to recieve real mail and know you are taking the position seriously. I know some of these things may seem a little dumb or maybe overkill but it may just be one of these little things that gets the HR person to like you enough to give you the job instead of making you #3. Again Good Luck!

David_S85

some other ideas
Identify what you believe are keywords in the job ad post, and be sure to include (creatively) as many of those same keywords in the cover letter and the resume as possible.

The last I read, over 90% of resumes and cover letters are not read by humans, but are instead scanned into OCR databases. It is those that had the "right" keywords that later float to the top of the database printouts that might get reviewed by humans and selected for interviews.

The real trick is to predict which keywords they will work off of.

May I suggest the latest Knock 'em Dead book (in the series) by Martin Yate.

mercphoto

David_S85 wrote:

The last I read, over 90% of resumes and cover letters are not read by humans, but are instead scanned into OCR databases. It is those that had the "right" keywords that later float to the top of the database printouts that might get reviewed by humans and selected for interviews.

I don't know about the specific percentage but you are basically correct. This is a consequence of technology (the OCR stuff) and the number of job applicants (humans can't read that many resumes anyway, or interview that many people).

Ann already mentioned she is talking to the parents of the children she photographs for possible job leads. This is very good. What this outlines is how important the skill of networking is. Networking is one additional tool to get you past the noise and in for an interview. I might not have had my current job or my prior job if it weren't for networking.

Ann McRae

There is some really great stuff in here.

I'll tell you what I have been doing, and what I am going to do differently now.

I have been writing a cover letter geared toward the job.
I have put very specific metrics into my resume - responsible for 500% growth of revenue in 10 years, 80 % customer retention level, etc.
Same kinds of things to describe exactly what I achieved in each volunteer role.

A couple of weeks ago, the perfect job was advertised so I was VERY specific in my cover letter as to how each of my experiences provided me with skills directly relating to the exact job description as written. That competition closed yesterday, and I am hopeful.

I am going to be much more strenuous at identifying the right opportunities and I am going to try the 'cover letter as resume' approach - a detailed cover letter with specifics and metrics and a very basic resume within the cover letter.

Job hunting takes a tonne of time!

And I had a placement person tell me that my skills weren't specific enough for some very basic jobs that I could have done very well. The current model of relying on OCR and young HR people looking for key words on resumes is probably the reason that the workforce in general is so incompetent - missing people with great skills because they cannot see beyond their rigid limited requirements.

Thanks everyone

ann

ian408

Best of luck to you!

Ian

david_h

Ann, I spend a lot of my time on the opposite side of the hiring situation and it's not easy there either. My day job is as sales manager at a small company and I seem to always have a need for someone new.

When we run an ad - usually either in the regional newspapers or sites such as Monster, there are a few things I look for in the responses:

1. A good cover letter that is obviously written specifically for the requirements I asked for. You'd be amazed at the poor quality many people send as a job application. Do they teach English in schools anymore? Of course this creates a great opportunity to make a good impression by anyone who can string a decent sentence together.

2. A resume that gives all the detail I need on the person and that they have taken the trouble to have it properly formatted with no mistakes. As far as I'm concerned, if someone can't take the trouble to put together a good letter and resume, I have no interest in talking with them.

3. Follow-up. If I'm involved in selecting a candidate, it's usually for a sales or customer service position. One of the main things I'm looking for is communication ability. Just as with poor written communication on the letter/resume, I have no use at all for someone who isn't going to follow up each step of the way. Email is best in my case.

4. Interview. At the interview, I'm really interested in someone’s personality and communication skill. It always impresses me if the candidate has taken the time to learn something about my company - I always make a point of asking if they know what we do, what markets we work in etc. Five minutes on the website is all that's needed, but way too many people don't bother to do even this basic preparation. If I ask them what we do and they don't know - well that pretty much it.

You might notice I didn't mention anything about job and industry experience. For me, someone with good personality for our team, the ability and desire to learn and excellent communication skills would be a good candidate. Sure job experience is important, but if it's the wrong person that has it, it's not much help.

Good luck with the search Ann. I also had my own businesses for quite a while before I was forced to be an employee again. It's worked out pretty well for me and I also have a part time wedding photo business to keep me occupied. Hopefully you can make it work as well.

gus

I love looking for a new job ann. My interviews are a little different. They ask if i can drive an 18 speed roadranger box + reverse & tip a quad dog tipping trailer.

Good Luck Ann