Sports-shooters needed throughout the country

SirGeorgeSirGeorge Registered Users Posts: 150 Major grins
edited December 23, 2011 in Sports
I need sports-shooters, throughout the country, for a nationwide project in 2012 and my initial need is for shooters in Jacksonville (FL), Richmond (VA), Charleston (SC), Greensboro (NC) and Denver (CO). More locations to follow.

The requirement is for a one-day action shoot and no post-processing. You will be provided with memory cards.

Must have a 70-200mm f/2.8 lens at a minimum.

If you are interested or know someone who may be please contact me.

george@digitalphotoconcept.com

Comments

  • johngjohng Registered Users Posts: 1,658 Major grins
    edited December 15, 2011
    George - since you're posting on a public forum about photography, I'll ask these questions publicly:

    1) Are you paying a day rate or are photographers being paid on spec or not being paid at all?

    2) What is the usage for the photos?
  • SirGeorgeSirGeorge Registered Users Posts: 150 Major grins
    edited December 15, 2011
    Answers
    John,

    I did post publicly but will answer 1) privately and 2) the images will be sold to the event participants.

    Kind regards,

    George.

    johng wrote: »
    George - since you're posting on a public forum about photography, I'll ask these questions publicly:

    1) Are you paying a day rate or are photographers being paid on spec or not being paid at all?

    2) What is the usage for the photos?
  • johngjohng Registered Users Posts: 1,658 Major grins
    edited December 15, 2011
    OK - fair enough. My point in asking publicly is for education purposes. Professional sports togs understand the business. For amateurs out there, here is my advice:
    George should be paying you an hourly or day rate. If the assignment is to shoot and only get paid if prints sell - that's a very bad decision on the shooter's part. Hourly rates are determined by market but for shooting only you should be looking "around" $20-$30 an hour.

    Depending on the assignment be sure you determine what your out-of-pocket costs will be. George mentioned a "one day action shoot". Remember to take into account your transportation costs, meal costs and any other expenses

    I admit I don't know George and I don't know his business model. He may absolutely be offering appropriate day rate or hourly rates - which is why I asked him to state publicly.

    I would say, the fact that he is unwilling to state publicly that he is paying hourly/day rate is a red flag. The bottom line is there are a lot of amateur shooters taken advantage of today. For example, take a read of this article over on sportsshooter.com:

    http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/2589

    Again, I have no knowledge of the business model being employed by the OP - I'm just trying to help other new shooters to not fall into some bad business arrangements like mentioned in the sportsshooter article.
  • jheftijhefti Registered Users Posts: 734 Major grins
    edited December 15, 2011
    Johng--great story at the other end of that link! I had a similar experience, though nothing so protracted (just a couple of games). I simply used the opportunity to build my portfolio. When I got an email to cover another game, I demurred. It's not that I care about the money (this is not what I do for a living, and have no plans to make it pay my bills), but I do care about representation and my fellow shooters, many of whom *are* trying to make a living at it, and have been enormously helpful to me. In return, I always charge for my work--either an assignment fee, which any reasonable media outlet should provide; or by the photo--and often ask higher than average fees just to give my colleagues a competitive edge.

    There is something amateurish at best about this offer, and more likely downright fishy. My advice to anyone who pursues this is to either 1) get paid, or 2) at least make sure that the event(s) you will be covering will help build your portfolio. Unlike some at this forum, I don't scream that you should never shoot for free, but that you should be getting something out of it. (After all, most business people know the value of a loss leader under the right circumstances.)

    Just
  • SirGeorgeSirGeorge Registered Users Posts: 150 Major grins
    edited December 15, 2011
    This is a valid real opportunity, no red flags!
    My business is bonefide - my web site is www.digitalphotoconcept.com and is registered in the state of Rhode Island - please check me out.

    You will see that I shoot many large sporting events in the North-East from road races to track and field to to ice-hockey to roller derby. (I haven't posted for a while but check out my earlier posts)

    I use contract photographers in the North-East and will gladly provide anyone with references to contact my other shooters who are paid very well - don't ask me ask them!

    I simply have an expansion opportunity and thought that this may be a good place to reach out to folks who be interested.

    I'd love to hear from you but please check out my web site of Facebook business page http://www.facebook.com/SportsPhotographyByGeorgeRoss

    And just to allay fears - you will be paid on the day of the event after the memory cards have been returned.

    Kind regards,

    George

    ps and for the record, I would not work for $20 per hour nor would I expect my team to.
  • jheftijhefti Registered Users Posts: 734 Major grins
    edited December 15, 2011
    SirGeorge wrote: »
    My business is bonefide - my web site is www.digitalphotoconcept.com and is registered in the state of Rhode Island - please check me out.

    You will see that I shoot many large sporting events in the North-East from road races to track and field to to ice-hockey to roller derby. (I haven't posted for a while but check out my earlier posts)

    I use contract photographers in the North-East and will gladly provide anyone with references to contact my other shooters who are paid very well - don't ask me ask them!

    I simply have an expansion opportunity and thought that this may be a good place to reach out to folks who be interested.

    I'd love to hear from you but please check out my web site of Facebook business page http://www.facebook.com/SportsPhotographyByGeorgeRoss

    And just to allay fears - you will be paid on the day of the event after the memory cards have been returned.

    Kind regards,

    George

    ps and for the record, I would not work for $20 per hour nor would I expect my team to.

    This is reassuring. Might have helped to put down the terms in the OP. Sorry to have given you a hard time, but this field is rife with unsavory business practices. Good luck!!
  • phatmanphatman Registered Users Posts: 19 Big grins
    edited December 15, 2011
    John and jhefti,
    valid points asked
    and, it appears, answered.
    SirGeorge, i have sent you an email.
    B
  • SirGeorgeSirGeorge Registered Users Posts: 150 Major grins
    edited December 15, 2011
    I have been a member of this board since 2007 but in all fairness I haven't posted for a year but all anyone had to do was visit my web site to see that I was for real (or even just google my name) - the events that I cover, my magazine covers etc - before casting doubt on my needs.

    My sports photography business is growing and I simply need new shooters outside of my region to support a client. This seemed a good place to do that. I am angry at being accused of possibly offering a dodgy venture. Oh well, that is the human condition and something that I have to work around.
  • jheftijhefti Registered Users Posts: 734 Major grins
    edited December 15, 2011
    SirGeorge wrote: »
    I have been a member of this board since 2007 but in all fairness I haven't posted for a year but all anyone had to do was visit my web site to see that I was for real (or even just google my name) - the events that I cover, my magazine covers etc - before casting doubt on my needs.

    My sports photography business is growing and I simply need new shooters outside of my region to support a client. This seemed a good place to do that. I am angry at being accused of possibly offering a dodgy venture. Oh well, that is the human condition and something that I have to work around.

    George, I looked at your site and had no doubt about your skills as a shooter. If it's any consolation, my one bad experience in this area involved a former Getty shooter and photoeditor who started his own business, so ability with the camera had nothing to do with my reservations. Rather, it was that you declined to describe the terms of the assignment, even when asked, which raises a red flag.
  • ian408ian408 Administrators Posts: 21,939 moderator
    edited December 15, 2011
    Good to see you back George.

    I'm glad that you posted and sorry that you're angry. I don't think John meant anything more than to make sure anyone who was interested got both sides of the story before accepting work. I think that's reasonable.

    Good luck with your expansion.
    Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
  • GlortGlort Registered Users Posts: 1,015 Major grins
    edited December 15, 2011
    SirGeorge wrote: »
    but all anyone had to do was visit my web site to see that I was for real (or even just google my name) - the events that I cover, my magazine covers etc - before casting doubt on my needs.

    By the same token, all you had to do was put relevant details in your original post or answer the simple and direct question when it was asked.

    I am angry at being accused of possibly offering a dodgy venture. Oh well, that is the human condition and something that I have to work around.

    I don't see where you were accused of anything.
    Advise was simply offered as to what minimum pay rates should be and cautions inexperienced parties should be aware of in this type of work.
    If that angers you I would suggest that is a product of your own insecurities as being distinctly different to any accusations made.

    It was clearly stated that your business model and payment scale was unknown but you have still not stated payment rates you are offering. I fail to see how saying XXX an hour is such a big secret.
    The fact you have a web site and have had images used on magazine covers says nothing about how you pay your photographers or gives any guarantee you are honorable in yout dealings with them.

    Just coming out and stating your payment rate would have put any questions to rest straight away.
  • johngjohng Registered Users Posts: 1,658 Major grins
    edited December 16, 2011
    Let's clarify some things George. I asked if you were paying hourly, day rate or on spec. You refused to respond publicly saying you would only answer that question in private.

    Point 2: If you look at the media company the sportsshooter author works for - they have some wonderful images to their credit. That doesn't mean that working for them might be a terrible financial decision for a young shooter.

    Point 3: your skill as a photographer, as pointed out by Glort, has zero impact on whether you're a good boss to work for. If I work for an editor, I could care less whether he/she is a good photographer. Same when I work for someone running a company - unless they're also shooting.

    Point 4: membership at dgrin has no bearing on your credibility as a boss and how you pay your employees.

    Point 5: I never asked you what your rate was - just how you pay. In your initial post, or response to my question all you have to do is state:
    "I pay hourly rates to all my shooters for time spent on site and those rates are competitive in the market".

    Point 6: as I said in my posts I had no knowledge of your business or practices - you could be ethical or not - your skill as a photographer or membership on websites doesn't prove anything about your business ethics. So given that you refused to address publicly the question I simply pointed out things would-be employees should look out for.

    Sorry my post angered you but when you dodge the question of how you pay, you can expect seasoned photographers to suggest people might have to look for some gotchas
  • jmp2204jmp2204 Registered Users Posts: 197 Major grins
    edited December 16, 2011
    Very cool of you to offer work on the forum , the other posters were doing guys like me a favour , Being green to this business I appreciate the heads up .Although i don't live in the areas requested nor am I a pro .I would like to do this at some point for fun (I really enjoy shooting sports ) but i am a bit away from this kind of work (with gear and experience ) but i will get there eventually Thanks for the post to offer some who would never otherwise get that chance and to those looking out for the greenies.
  • phatmanphatman Registered Users Posts: 19 Big grins
    edited December 23, 2011
    SirGeorge,,
    any updates?
    B
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