Lost frame rate using the control to system for Nikon

Dreadnote

Perhaps someone here knows the answer to this.

Is there a way to get full FPS while using the control tl system by pocket wizard? It would seem that the only way to accomplish this is to defeat the entire system by putting it in basic trigger only mode.

If anyone knows a work around I'd love to hear about it. Thanks.

This is the e-mail conversation I've been having with pocket wizard customer service. Perhaps I'm not explaining myself clearly and just don't realize it or maybe there is a language barrier issue here as the customer service agent seems to be talking around the point instead of answering it:

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Original Message

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From:
Reply-
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 11:52:34 -0500
To: customer.support@lpadesign.com
Subject: ControlTL for Nikon

Name:
Email:
Phone:
Reason: ControlTL for Nikon
Country: United States

_____ *

Message:
i am using a nikon d300s with a tt5 with an ac3 in the hot shoe as a
trigger. I am using SB900's on TT5's at the other end. Im shooting
sports indoors and I cannot get the strobes to fire at the full 6-7 FPS
the the camera is able do in this environment if the sb900 is directly
in the hot shoe of the d300s. Is there some setting I have overlooked?
The flashes are set to low power, so its not a flash hasn't cycled
issue. At 1/4 power on the sb900's I should be able to get 4 fast shots
before the flash is drained and needs to recycle, however with the tt5's
the frame rate is noticeably slower. The tt5's and ac3 controller are
all running the current 3.003 update. Please advise.


On Dec 16, 2011, at 10:42 AM, "PocketWizard Support" <customer.support@pocketwizard.com> wrote:


If the flash is in manual mode at 1/4 power, then set the TT5 in "Basic Trigger Mode". *This will have the Flex work as a regular PocketWizard and it will respond quicker, since it no longer will attempt to perford TTL calculations. *Just remember that the AC-3 will not operate on the Standard PocketWizard Channels that Basic Trigger uses.

Basic Trigger tutorial: *http://www.pocketwizard.com/inspirations/tutorials/basic_trigger_mode_tutorial_vide/
--
Dan Cirillo

PocketWizard Support
customer.support@pocketwizard.com


To: "PocketWizard Support" <customer.support@pocketwizard.com>
Subject: Re: (Case 25582) ControlTL for Nikon

Perhaps I'm not clearly understanding the process that the ac3 and tt5 are going through. Why would they be attempting to send TTL information when the strobes are set to manual on the ac3. *It seems that the functionality and usefulness of the ac3 is eliminated if you set the strobes to basic trigger mode.

Sent from my iPad


On Dec 19, 2011, at 2:05 PM, "PocketWizard Support" <customer.support@pocketwizard.com> wrote:

If you are using the AC-3, the flashes have to be set to TTL. *When the AC-3 is set to "M", the TTL is being overtaken by the PocketWizards and manual controled by them.
--
Dan Cirillo

PocketWizard Support
customer.support@pocketwizard.com



Yes, I understand this. However according to what you stated earlier, when the ac3 unit is being used either in TTL mode or manual mode, TTL information is being sent and is causing low frame rate. You said that this could be corrected by setting the tt5 units to "trigger only" mode but that this disables the ac3 unit. This makes the ac3 unit useless. The whole point was to be able to adjust flash output from camera position. Is there no work around for when the ac3 unit is set to manual output for maximum frame rate to be achieved?

Sent from my iPad

Dan7312

When you are using the mini/flex to do eTTL there are a number of round trips between the mini and the flex for each shot. The electronics in the mini/flex introduce delays that are not present when the flash is directly on the camera hot shoe. When you press the shutter the mini has to tell the flex to fire the test flash. Then the mini has to decode what the camera tells the it, which the camera thinks is a flash unit, the flash setting. Then the mini has to tell the flex what light level to use and fire the flash to take the picture.

The point is that the delays are longer than if the flash is attached directly to the hot shoe on the camera, the mini and flex circuit delays are added.

When you set trigger only there is no round trips involved, the mini just sends a signal to the flex to fire the flash.

If you use the Canon (I use Canon, not Nikon) optical system like a 580 as a master you will find that this also slows down the fps rate even more than the mini/flex does.

Dreadnote wrote: »

Perhaps someone here knows the answer to this.

Is there a way to get full FPS while using the control tl system by pocket wizard? It would seem that the only way to accomplish this is to defeat the entire system by putting it in basic trigger only mode.

If anyone knows a work around I'd love to hear about it. Thanks.

This is the e-mail conversation I've been having with pocket wizard customer service. Perhaps I'm not explaining myself clearly and just don't realize it or maybe there is a language barrier issue here as the customer service agent seems to be talking around the point instead of answering it:

---

Original Message

---

From:
Reply-
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 11:52:34 -0500
To: customer.support@lpadesign.com
Subject: ControlTL for Nikon

Name:
Email:
Phone:
Reason: ControlTL for Nikon
Country: United States

_____ *

Message:
i am using a nikon d300s with a tt5 with an ac3 in the hot shoe as a
trigger. I am using SB900's on TT5's at the other end. Im shooting
sports indoors and I cannot get the strobes to fire at the full 6-7 FPS
the the camera is able do in this environment if the sb900 is directly
in the hot shoe of the d300s. Is there some setting I have overlooked?
The flashes are set to low power, so its not a flash hasn't cycled
issue. At 1/4 power on the sb900's I should be able to get 4 fast shots
before the flash is drained and needs to recycle, however with the tt5's
the frame rate is noticeably slower. The tt5's and ac3 controller are
all running the current 3.003 update. Please advise.


On Dec 16, 2011, at 10:42 AM, "PocketWizard Support" <CUSTOMER.SUPPORT@POCKETWIZARD.COM>wrote:


If the flash is in manual mode at 1/4 power, then set the TT5 in "Basic Trigger Mode". *This will have the Flex work as a regular PocketWizard and it will respond quicker, since it no longer will attempt to perford TTL calculations. *Just remember that the AC-3 will not operate on the Standard PocketWizard Channels that Basic Trigger uses.

Basic Trigger tutorial: *http://www.pocketwizard.com/inspirations/tutorials/basic_trigger_mode_tutorial_vide/
--
Dan Cirillo

PocketWizard Support
customer.support@pocketwizard.com


To: "PocketWizard Support" <CUSTOMER.SUPPORT@POCKETWIZARD.COM>
Subject: Re: (Case 25582) ControlTL for Nikon

Perhaps I'm not clearly understanding the process that the ac3 and tt5 are going through. Why would they be attempting to send TTL information when the strobes are set to manual on the ac3. *It seems that the functionality and usefulness of the ac3 is eliminated if you set the strobes to basic trigger mode.

Sent from my iPad


On Dec 19, 2011, at 2:05 PM, "PocketWizard Support" <CUSTOMER.SUPPORT@POCKETWIZARD.COM>wrote:

If you are using the AC-3, the flashes have to be set to TTL. *When the AC-3 is set to "M", the TTL is being overtaken by the PocketWizards and manual controled by them.
--
Dan Cirillo

PocketWizard Support
customer.support@pocketwizard.com



Yes, I understand this. However according to what you stated earlier, when the ac3 unit is being used either in TTL mode or manual mode, TTL information is being sent and is causing low frame rate. You said that this could be corrected by setting the tt5 units to "trigger only" mode but that this disables the ac3 unit. This makes the ac3 unit useless. The whole point was to be able to adjust flash output from camera position. Is there no work around for when the ac3 unit is set to manual output for maximum frame rate to be achieved?

Sent from my iPad

Dreadnote

Thanks for the reply. I hear what you are saying, I was just under the impression that when you set the switch on the ac3 to the manual setting that the round trip was eliminated. I guess not. It seems that it should be since it is "manual mode".

Dan7312

I was comparing eTTL to trigger only. I'm not too sure of what the details are when mini/AC-3 is in manual. With AC-3 manual mode the mini is tricking the flash into the level you set on the AC-3. The flash itself is in eTTL mode and mini sends the level you set on the AC-3 instead of the one the camera calculates from the test flash. So even if the test flash isn't fired it may still have to go through the same sequence.

Dreadnote wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. I hear what you are saying, I was just under the impression that when you set the switch on the ac3 to the manual setting that the round trip was eliminated. I guess not. It seems that it should be since it is "manual mode".

Dreadnote

Well it seems that I finally have my answer. So I tgought I'd post it up here for the benefit of anyone else who was wondering about the same issue I was. Pocket Wizard customer service forwarded my inquiry to one of their tech people. Fom my perspective it still seems a bit odd since with a flash directly in the hot shoe set to manual you seem to get full fps but in truth I have no real way to quantify the actual fps other than by what I hear and feel the camera doing. Anyway, here is his response:

Chris is on vacation, but I'd be happy to help. The FPS reduction you're seeing when using your radio in ControlTL mode is a behavior of Nikon cameras that we can't control. Whenever they detect a device capable of communicating through the hot shoe, they automatically slow down to accommodate for the additional processing time.

A radio in Basic Trigger mode transmits on Standard Channels only, which don't support TTL or power control.

Setting an AC3 to all manual reduces some of the radio communications, but it won't speed up the camera because it's still communicating with the radio via its hot shoe. It might be possible to implement a special mode that lets manual power control with an AC3 work using Basic Trigger Mode, but there would be significant drawbacks. Without getting into too much technical detail, if our radio isn't talking to the camera, we can't know the camera is going to fire until it's ready to synchronize a flash, which is much too late to send power level information to remote flashes. There are other possible approaches, like transmitting the power level information when you press the radios' test button.

We're always looking to add new functionality to our radios and this is a feature I'd personally like to see. From a technical perspective, working within the limitations of current camera/flash systems, it may not be possible to implement in a way that is practical. You may want to keep track of our Facebook page for updates. We'll post more information there if we make progress on new firmware with such a feature:
http://www.facebook.com/pocketwizards