Speedlight recommendations?

M38A1

"Santa" just said I could pickup a couple (as in two) speedlights, but I have NO idea where to turn other than here..... My biggest problem is I simply don't know enough about off-camera capability other than what I've seen here and surfing the 'net. So I honestly don't know enough to ask specific questions. (read - NEWBIE)

I shoot a Nikon D700 (and D90 infrequently) and have a set of Cactus V5 triggers and an SB-900 as well. I'm interested in starting to play with off-camera light outside and indoors. My initial interest is in knocking down ambient light to provide a black background on a moving subject about 5-10 yards out.

I'm not interested in spending a fortune each and would like "Manual" flexibility from either the camera or at the unit itself.

Recommendations?

Thanks!!!!!!


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Art Scott

My recommendation would be the SB900's...I have 2 and really like them....a lot of people like the Sigma Super DG 530 I think is the current top end.
what I like is that I can connect to them with a PC cable when needed for my radio frequency triggers to work with them, I do not like any of the flashes that do not have a PC connector, that is just too restricting.

NeilL

If you want to steep awhile in a strong brew of flash lore consider "speedliter's handbook" linked on this page: http://speedliting.com/

Applies outside of Canon device specifics, and is at least a couple stops beyond the Strobist.

It might change your decision from being one of what label/model, to one of which device will let me do what I want, and you don't know what you want to do until you know what is possible!

Neil

Art Scott

Check Amazon for Nikons CLS dvd's and books, they may help a lot....or the Hotshoe Diaries...Great Book by Joe McNally....

Icebear

If you have a D700 and an SB900, why would you consider anything other than SB700s? Nikon's CLS will let you do amazing things, both with the on-camera pop-up and the SB900 acting as commander for the other flashes. Don't listen too credulously to naysayrs who tell you CLS doesn't work outside. It does (most of the time.) Most of them are jealous Canon shooters who wish they had CLS.

Simo70

I agree with Icebear, the SB 700 seems to be a great unit to use with your 900 as master. You could potentially get used SB600 which works great too. I have two of those and trigger them remotely from the pop-up flash on my D300s. Santa will bring me the SB910 which will become my key light with the 600 as fill-in.I also got the SC-28 cable to use it off camera as master (3 of camera flash).

angevin1

M38A1 wrote: »

My initial interest is in knocking down ambient light to provide a black background on a moving subject about 5-10 yards out.

This is the only expensive fly in your soup.

1. You already know you use ISO, Shutter speed and aperture to get a dark photo in Daylight.

2. Now you want to light a moving object at 5-10 yards, or 15 to 30 feet away with a flash gun.

3. off the cuff with no tongue in cheek: Not gonna happen.

4. If you want to re-post as to how to achieve that goal, perhaps others can guide you.

ziggy53

To elaborate on what Tom is trying to explain, if your goal is to turn the background black during daylight with a subject at 5-10 yards, or 15 to 30 feet away, you need to first identify what is needed:

1) "Black" is often defined by at least 6 EV below anything else in the scene. Knowing that each EV is a factor of 2, that means you need 6 squared in order to achieve your goal. If we are still talking direct sun that means you would need the subject to be illuminated 6 squared, or 36 times the power of sunlight.

2) The other part of your requirement is the distance involved. Generally, generated light falls off as a square of the distance, so that the light at 1 foot from the source is 4 times the amount of light compared to 2 feet from the source. (This is from an un-collimated light source. A compact flash is "somewhat" focused, so the situation is not as bad, ... but still ...) 36 times the power of sunlight (from the above calculations) at 5-10 yards, or 15 to 30 feet away is an awesome amount of power required, and far beyond a pair of compact flashes' abilities.

Yes, if we're going to discuss this in detail I will move this thread into the Techniques forum.

M38A1

First off, thanks for the replies thus far. As I mentioned, I don't know enough to ask or I'm not putting it in the right way. That I apologize for.

I have seen shots which intrigue me and I'd like to try and recreate. I'm not sure we need to move this to a technique sub-forum (yet) since I'm still trying to get the proper input on what speedlights would be recommended.

The shot is of a runner, on a track. He runs in a lane with a speedlight on his immediate right and one on his immediate left. They are approximately 10-12' apart from one another. ie: there's one about four or five feet to his right and one directly across about four or five from his left and they are both snooted. I'm shooting directly in front of him coming at me about 15-20 feet out. The other shot is perpendicular to his direction of travel giving a profile shot.

Sample: (CREDIT: Haristobald Photography)


Both shots were done in the evening or approaching evening with ambient light still present. The speedlight setup knocked the ambient light down to solid black and highlighted the runner.

Here's how it was done: (CREDIT: Haristobald Photography)
http://youtu.be/RBBlJmCAGHA


Does that further define the speedlight requirement? The idea of staying with the Nikon 'system' is appealing, yet I'm open to other alternatives. And yes, I DO need to read a bit more on what exactly I want out of the equipment. My gut is telling me this is a whole new area (lighting) to explore and I think I'm going to enjoy it.

Thanks!

~scott

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angevin1

M38A1 wrote: »

I have seen shots which intrigue me and I'd like to try and recreate. I'm not sure we need to move this to a technique sub-forum (yet) since I'm still trying to get the proper input on what speedlights would be recommended.

When you find a photo you want to recreate or some such, just provide a link, and actually my favorite way is to write to the Author of the work and get the real inside info on that Shot!

M38A1 wrote: »

The shot is of a runner, on a track. He runs in a lane with a speedlight on his immediate right and one on his immediate left. They are approximately 8-10' apart from one another. ie: there's one about four or five feet to his right and one directly across about four or five feet from his left and they are both snooted. I'm shooting directly in front of him coming at me about 15-20 feet out. The other shot is perpendicular to his direction of travel giving a profile shot.

Both shots were done in the evening or approaching evening with ambient light still present. The speedlight setup knocked the ambient light down to solid black and highlighted the runner.

I drew a diagram of your explanation regarding this shot you want to make. I'd suggest in SB900 x2 at a Minimum and x4 as probably a safer bet with more latitude.

M38A1 wrote: »

Does that further define the speedlight requirement? The idea of staying with the Nikon 'system' is appealing, yet I'm open to other alternatives.
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Using your description my diagram you wouldn't encounter problems unless you were shooting portrait view. If you hold your camera in Landscape orientation, it ought to control those remote Commanded flashes no problem. In Portrait orientation it would sometimes misfire due to the signal not reaching the camera right remote flashes.

ziggy53

If we accept the premise of the speedlights as 5 feet from the runner and the output from the speedlights as 36 times ambient (to force ambient into black), and if we assume that the entire runner is lit plus some of the track (to give the runner some validity and context, and because I don't have access to see the original image so I have to make some assumptions) and if we assume Nikon's most powerful flashes (best case scenario), that pretty much leads me to the following:

5 feet away and illuminating maybe 10 feet vertical scene (minimum that I can envision for the scene to make sense) would mean that the flash:

Is an SB-900.
Flash zoom is set to use the wide-angle panel (in order to provide sufficient coverage from a distance of 5 feet.)

For the life of me, I cannot find the guide number of the SB-900 when using the wide angle panel. Without that information I cannot proceed to give you the maximum allowed ambient illumination to provide a black background (assuming that 6 EV is sufficiently black for your needs.)

You also do not say whether the original shot was taken using a Nikon D70/D50/etc., which do allow a higher flash sync shutter speed, allowing for better ambient light control. That information would be critical to know, and the use of one of those cameras would be recommended for these circumstances.

In summary, my recommendations for your scenario:

Buy a pair of Nikon SB-900 speedlights.
Use Manual mode and a pair of simple radio master/slave sets.
Use the wide-angle panel to provide flash coverage at the distances you provided.
Buy one of the Nikon bodies that allows the use of a higher flash sync shutter speed to allow better control over ambient light. (D40. D50, D70 & D70s)
Shoot late in the day "and", if possible, when overcast.
(Of course, shooting at night pretty much guarantees a black background as long as the flash does not spill light onto the background and as long as the background is sufficiently distant.)

This combination of equipment and conditions should give you a reasonable opportunity for success.

angevin1

I just saw the edited post. Yes. Doesn't look like as much ambient as I had thought. So you won't need as much light to do this at this hour or this amt. of ambient. I still like the SB900 for this only because it really is hard to have too much light!

M38A1

Thanks guys.... I REALLY do appreciate the input.

This is the how they did it....
<object height="480" width="640">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RBBlJmCAGHA?version=3&hl=en_US&quot; type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="480" width="640"></object>

ziggy53

Note the track conditions at the time, "very" overcast. If it was also late in the day, that helped too.

The important thing is that to duplicate his efforts under those conditions you just need to duplicate what he had:

2 - snooted SB-26 flashes (old but fairly punchy, manual mode capable.)
Wireless, radio master/slaves.
100 ISO, 1/250th, f6.3
Very dark and overcast day.
Narrow track. (I count 4 lanes?)

About any modern dSLR should work with those flashes in those conditions. I agree with the use of the snoot to isolate the subject. I had a different vision in mind.

For somewhat brighter conditions, and assuming a Nikon setup, use my recommendations with the exception of a narrower zoom selection and the use of a snoot.

BTW I am largely basing my recommendations on this page:

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2008/01/control-your-world-with-ultra-high-sync.html

ziggy53

Note too that the bicyclist was most likely shot in front of a black backdrop, not just the ambient/available background. I can draw this conclusion from his other video:

http://youtu.be/fmgXSaJauVs

Then he would have used post-processing to create a very strong black point for the background, as well as extending the background to fill the frame.

M38A1

Well I took Icebear's lead and just picked up an SB-700 to compliment the SB-900 I have. Now... off to go play with them and see what happens.

Thx for the input!

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