New Camera Help !!!

travie digital · December 22, 2011

Hi all, new to the forum. Very glad I found the community here.

Im looking for a new camera, and am right now between the Canon EOS T3 (package deal w/ 75-300mm lens) and a Fuji Finepix s4000 . The Canon is an SLR digital, and the Fuji I believe to be a point and shoot. The Canon camera is $400 more. Will the Fuji being a "point and shoot" effect my camera's performance? I am looking to do crazy crazy things with the exposure triangle.

I am also a little confused on the aperture of both the cameras.

The Fuji camera lists - Aperture: f/3.1 (W) - 5.9 (T) - so is that really the range 3.1 to 5.9? No messing with f1 or f11, f8 anything other than those parameters?

The Canon camera lists - f/3.5-5.6 IS lens (camera lens) and Maximum aperture: 1:4-5.6 (75-300mm lens)

Help on this matter would be greatly apprecited. Thank you all !!!

ziggy53 · December 22, 2011

"Completely" different cameras with completely different qualities and uses.

Please give us more detail on how you intend to use the camera. The more you describe in detail, the better we can help.

Icebear · December 22, 2011

What Ziggy said.

But to answer your questions about the f-stop confusion, let me have a go.
If a lens is described as a 50-150mm zoom lens, I think you have an idea of what that means. Your confusion arises from the f/3.5-5.6 part right? What that means (pay attention here) is that at 50mm, your "most open" f-stop is f/3.5, but as you zoom to 150mm, your effective f-stop closes down to f/5.6. In practical terms, it means your lens is not as "fast" at 150mm as it is at 50mm. It means nothing about how far you can stop the lens down. At 50mm and 150mm, you can still stop it down to f/8 or f/16. You are just limited by how wide you can open the iris. At it's most wide open, your 50-150 f/3.5-5.6 lets less light in at 150mm than it does at 50mm. Capice? you can buy "constant aperture" lenses that maintain the same wide open f-stop throughout their zoom range, but they're much pricier than zooms that don't.

Now, go back to Ziggy's question. First things first.

ThatCanonGuy · December 22, 2011

What Ziggy said.

You won't be able to get f1 with either camera, unless you buy a $3000 Canon 50mm f/1.0L. The Canon will let you do a lot more stuff with exposure; even if the Fuji has M mode, you'll get more control of exposure with a DSLR.

Matthew Saville · December 22, 2011

Yeah, the crazier you want to get with your exposure triangle, the bigger the sensor you need. Larger sensors give you advantages in ISO and diffraction, and advantages in shallow depth although that could be considered a disadvantage depending on what you need to do.

=Matt=

travie digital · December 23, 2011

My first project in mind is going down the ski mountain and capturing just my skis in focus, and creating movement from the tree lines. Like this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hughes500/158260109/

I live in the mountains, so I will definitely be getting some panorama landscape shots. I also hope to really create interesting depth of field shots where my foreground is focused and background is not. I want to be out in nature doing my thing. I also want to create shots where the lights on cars are stretched out (a low shutter speed) and blurred creating crazy movement, and at night mind you. The classic blurred highway scene .

I am looking to get super creative with the exposure triangle and change all sorts of variables, that I don't even know yet. Panorama shots, landscape shots, nature shots, actions shots, portraits, black and white shots.

I figure the fuji will limit my exposure trinagle capabilities, but will still giving me an opportunity to adjust and play with the shutter, app, and iso. But a DSLR will really give me more manueverability with my trinagle?

If I am not doing something out of the box with my shot and the exp triangle, than I am not taking good shots. That just about sums up what I am looking to do. Obscure out of the box make you think about The Mystery, type shots.

I feel in my heart I need the Canon, but I am a poor 25 year old, and the extra cost (plus the 3 year warranty) is tough to take down. I have a feeling it will be worth it in the long run, and I will be more happy with the camera's performance. Any more help would be great !!!!

Thaks for the answers on aper. I get exactly what you'r saying. So the smaller fstop number shown will be the largest opening I can achieve at the smallest zoom , then at the highest zoom the fstop max becomes the next number shown. I will be able to turn my fstop up to f8 f16 and f22 whenever?

Icebear · December 23, 2011

travie digital wrote: »

Thaks for the answers on aper. I get exactly what you'r saying. So the smaller fstop number shown will be the largest opening I can achieve at the smallest zoom , then at the highest zoom the fstop max becomes the next number shown. I will be able to turn my fstop up to f8 f16 and f22 whenever?

Yes. And You're most welcome.
Forget the compact camera. As soon as you mentioned shallow DOF, you chose the DSLR. End of story.

ziggy53 · December 23, 2011

travie digital wrote: »

My first project in mind is going down the ski mountain and capturing just my skis in focus, and creating movement from the tree lines. Like this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hughes500/158260109/

I live in the mountains, so I will definitely be getting some panorama landscape shots. I also hope to really create interesting depth of field shots where my foreground is focused and background is not. I want to be out in nature doing my thing. I also want to create shots where the lights on cars are stretched out (a low shutter speed) and blurred creating crazy movement, and at night mind you. The classic blurred highway scene .

I am looking to get super creative with the exposure triangle and change all sorts of variables, that I don't even know yet. Panorama shots, landscape shots, nature shots, actions shots, portraits, black and white shots.

...

Icebear wrote: »

Yes. And You're most welcome.
Forget the compact camera. As soon as you mentioned shallow DOF, you chose the DSLR. End of story.

Icebear (John) is giving you good advice. What you seem to be asking for is DOF "control", and the Canon dSLR is a much better choice than the FujiFilm digicam.

Additionally I would advise you to look at larger aperture prime lenses, starting with the Canon EF 50mm, f1.8. This is as inexpensive as it gets in a large aperture prime lens for Canon cameras and it does allow very nice image quality at large apertures. Focus accuracy is a bit dodgy but you have to spend at least 3 times more to get better focus accuracy at this focal length.

That image that you linked above was mostly a results of "motion blur". The DOF in that scene actually looks to be very deep (a smaller aperture.) Motion blur, used this way, does create a "tunnel" effect and this is an OK example of its use.

For more examples of motion blur:

http://bit.ly/uhjUYA

ThatCanonGuy · December 23, 2011

To save money, it sounds like you could do without the 75-300mm lens (unless you're going to be doing telephoto sports stuff). Buying a used camera can also save you money (for example, the 20D goes for under $200 - no bells or whistles, but it's a solid camera). If you don't want to buy used, you can save money by buying refurb directly from Canon through the CLP.

I'd second Ziggy's recommendation of the 50mm f/1.8 II. I would also look at the 28mm f/2.8. It's very cheap (if you buy used, you can sometimes get it for under $200). KEH.com usually has lots of inexpensive used Canon gear.

travie digital · December 23, 2011

Thank you, Thank you.

I'm thinking the Canon it is. So on the different lens, I'm looking now, is this the right one?

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-50mm-1-8-Camera-Lens/dp/B00007E7JU

So what would be the best step, should I get the Canon t3 with just the body, and the EF 50 mm lens, or should I still get the t3 with the 18 - 55 mm lens?

Thanks again, you guys have been a huge help !!!!

travie digital · December 23, 2011

The body only price is $25 less than the price for the EOS t3 with the 18-55 mm lens

ziggy53 · December 23, 2011

The 18-55mm "kit" lens can be useful and, for the minor difference, I recommend purchasing that package. I strongly suggest purchasing from either B&H or Adorama however:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/753766-REG/Canon_5757B002_EOS_Rebel_T3_Digital.html
http://www.adorama.com/SearchSite/Default.aspx?searchinfo=Canon+EOS+Rebel+T3

(B&H having the better current price.)

The difference is that both B&H and Adorama are in the business of photography and their service after the sale is extremely good. Amazon is just not as helpful.

Adamideas · December 23, 2011

Some excellent advice in this thread. In the long run you may end up using the 50 1.8 a lot more than the 18-55 kit lens. It is a very sharp lens and among my favorites. Autofocus is not the best but I don't know how much "worse" it is than the kit lens, if any.

When I was starting out with photography... I was on the beach shooting the sunset and happened to have two bodies and two tripods with me, my T1i with 18-55 kit lens and an old Digital Rebel with the 50mm. I was blown away when I got home and discovered that even though the T1i had 3 times as many megapixels the photos it produced were no where near as clear and sharp as those produced with the 50mm and old rebel.

True, you have to zoom with your feet and its not a wide angle but that didn't stop me from learning a ton and having fun while doing it.

Buy from your local mom & pop camera shop if you can (if one exists). Nicely let them know you've seen it cheaper online and see if they can throw in something extra (perhaps a hands on quick lesson in DOF?). I got a some used filters and step up rings that way.

Pupator · December 26, 2011

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. It causes you to spend lots of money on an exciting new hobby that you'll likely put down in a couple of months. I'd start with an inexpensive P&S and do a lot of reading and a lot of practicing before comitting significant funds to this. Otherwise I think you'll be posting on the Buy/Sell forum within 6 months.

(I think I'm turning into Matt!

)

Matthew Saville · December 27, 2011

Pupator wrote: »

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. It causes you to spend lots of money on an exciting new hobby that you'll likely put down in a couple of months. I'd start with an inexpensive P&S and do a lot of reading and a lot of practicing before comitting significant funds to this. Otherwise I think you'll be posting on the Buy/Sell forum within 6 months.

(I think I'm turning into Matt! )

Hey, reading and practicing (and renting) saved me from EVER buying a piece of gear that I regretted! Actually, that's not true. I impulse-bought twice in my (photographic) life: I bought a lightsphere, and an Expo disc. Biggest waste of $$ ever! Both were bought because of a misunderstanding about my own technical preferences and habits. (Now I just shoot Kelvin and bounce my flash; haven't used either of those devices in 2+ years!)

As I always say- Advice on the internet can be VERY useful, but there is still a risk of accidentally wasting money if you don't go and test the gear and consider it's uses for your current and future hobbies / profession. I've lost count of how many people buy a high-end camera when they get excited about photography, only to email me a few months / year later excitedly telling me how they bought a compact beginner DSLR that is so much lighter and smaller and still gives them everything they ACTUALLY need from photography. Let alone, how many people buy a beginner or amateur DSLR, with professional goals in mind, and they think they can keep getting away with using a Rebel or D90 as a professional tool, just so long as they do something silly like "focus on the lenses first"...

Moral of the story- Know yourself and your style first, then seek advice and TEST and RENT, ...then buy. :-)

Good luck out there!
=Matt=

travie digital · December 30, 2011

"Otherwise I think you'll be posting on the Buy/Sell forum within 6 months"

No. Value. Added.

Thanks for the help brothers

Pupator · December 30, 2011

I'm sorry you feel that way. I'll check back with you in a few months.

Moving Pictures · December 30, 2011

I'd try to find a used lesser-end DSLR, like a Canon D20 or some such. It would give you an idea of what you're after, without shelling out the cash. Just a thought.

ThatCanonGuy · December 30, 2011

20D is still a nice camera!

travie digital · December 30, 2011

A used 20D is still more $ than a new eos t3

Please do, sans the negativity and disruption of my energy doin its thing

ThatCanonGuy · December 30, 2011

20D is $200, 300 max. Are you looking at old Amazon listings? You'd have to buy the camera used, since it's from 2004. I have one and, while it doesn't have the bells and whistles that newer cameras have, it's capable shooting great photos.

travie digital · December 31, 2011

I'm finding some now. Will the f/1.8 50 mm lens still work on this body??

travie digital · December 31, 2011

How is the Nikon D3000? Or is sticking with Canon better. Canon EOS is what my h.s photography teacher recommended

travie digital · December 31, 2011

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/used/348299/Canon_9442A002_EOS_20D_Digital_Camera.html

Will this camera have the normal fstop stops beyond 5, i.e 8 11 16 etc ??

Also, its says it uses Canon EF and EF-S lenss,

so this lens should be supported?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/12142-GREY/Canon_2514A002_Normal_EF_50mm_f_1_8.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/12142-USA/Canon_2514A002_Normal_EF_50mm_f_1_8.html

Are both these lens' the same??

travie digital · December 31, 2011

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/find/cart.jsp

this is the set up that I am looking at now, how does it look?

travie digital · December 31, 2011

Also, I have a tripod for a digital camcorder. Will I be able to use this with the camera as well?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/512119-REG/Vista_by_Davis_Sanford_TRAVLRV_Traveler_Tripod.html

This is the tripod I have. Think it might work?

angevin1 · December 31, 2011

travie digital wrote: »

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/used/348299/Canon_9442A002_EOS_20D_Digital_Camera.html

Will this camera have the normal fstop stops beyond 5, i.e 8 11 16 etc ??

I thought you and John ( ICEBEAR) had this aperture thing worked out?! Aperture is in the lens.

travie digital wrote: »

Also, its says it uses Canon EF and EF-S lenss,

so this lens should be supported?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/12142-GREY/Canon_2514A002_Normal_EF_50mm_f_1_8.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/12142-USA/Canon_2514A002_Normal_EF_50mm_f_1_8.html

Are both these lens' the same??

Yes, those lenses are supported, it lists APS-C ( thats your 20D) in the spec's. One lens is grey market I believe.

And yes, your tripod will work!

ThatCanonGuy · December 31, 2011

Yeah, all EF and EF-S lenses work with the 20D. Your tripod will as well. BTW, you link to the B&H shopping cart. Well, each person has a different cart, so we'll see different things. Mine's empty

Canon vs Nikon, don't even bother. Both are great. Find a good deal and get a camera, that's what matters.

travie digital · December 31, 2011

thanks thanks,

I know we did, I remember now

LAw of 3's - i'll remember for life after the third time, so two down, one to go.

Thanks for all your help. I think i'm going to go with the 20D (i'll just be selling it in six months

) with the 50 mm lens also.

Glad the tripod will work!!!!!!!

Matthew Saville · December 31, 2011

travie digital wrote: »

thanks thanks,

I know we did, I remember now LAw of 3's - i'll remember for life after the third time, so two down, one to go.

Thanks for all your help. I think i'm going to go with the 20D (i'll just be selling it in six months ) with the 50 mm lens also.

Glad the tripod will work!!!!!!!

It may have sounded snide coming from Pupator the way they worded it, but I honestly think there is much value in such a warning. Inquiring on the internet is a great way to get input from others who shoot similar subjects, of course I believe that otherwise I wouldn't be here. But the internet cannot be a substitute for hands-on testing. I haven't re-read every reply in this topic, but have you had a chance to handle any of the cameras you're considering buying?

Personally, I have shot VERY EXTENSIVELY with both Canon and Nikon systems, both as a hobbyist and professional. By far, I prefer Nikon's controls and performance, even though Canon has a couple lenses that I'm jealous of, and great skin tone image quality.

So, like I said, I would HIGHLY recommend trying stuff out if you have never worked with this type of gear before.

On the one hand, you most certainly will be able to simply learn how to operate the gear well, and get good results. But on the other hand, you won't know what you're missing if you don't try the competition. I'm always surprised by how many people are out there STRONGLY recommending a certain system, when they have absolutely no experience with the other options.

That's the only thing I wanted to bring up. The 20D is a great camera though, I've shot plenty with it and a couple of my best landscape images were made on it. But considering how old the camera is, and considering your interest in "getting crazy with the exposure triangle", it is indeed possible that you could out-grow the 20D in 6-12-24 months.

Good luck deciding,
=Matt=

New Camera Help !!!

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