Photoshop CS2 "Smart Sharpen"

suntzu · October 26, 2005

I have this large image (2048 x 3072) I'm trying to correct and when I apply the Smart Sharpen, the preview looks exactly like what I want (as does the image itself with Preview checked). But after I hit OK and the progress bar fills up, the image reverts back to its blurry self.

I've tried copying the layer and deleting the one labeled "Background" thinking that the layer was locked so the changes wouldn't reflect but that didn't solve it.

I've also resized the picture down to 25% (512 x 768) of original (using Bicubic) and for some reason, the changes lock and don't revert back.

What could be wrong? :dunno

jfriend · October 26, 2005

A few ideas

suntzu wrote:

I have this large image (2048 x 3072) I'm trying to correct and when I apply the Smart Sharpen, the preview looks exactly like what I want (as does the image itself with Preview checked). But after I hit OK and the progress bar fills up, the image reverts back to its blurry self.

I've tried copying the layer and deleting the one labeled "Background" thinking that the layer was locked so the changes wouldn't reflect but that didn't solve it.

I've also resized the picture down to 25% (512 x 768) of original (using Bicubic) and for some reason, the changes lock and don't revert back.

What could be wrong?

A few ideas:

1) Is there anything unusual set in the two advanced tabs (shadows and highlights) in the smart sharpening dialog? Sometimes the wrong settings in there will block the sharpening effect that you intend?

2) Are you sharpening the top-most layer. If you aren't sharpening the top-most layer, the preview window in the smart sharpen dialog will show the sharpening effect on the selected layer, but that may not be what you see in the final image if you have other layers on top?

3) Is the opacity of the layer you are sharpening set at 100%?

4) Is the blend mode of the layer you are sharpening set at normal?

Those are the only idea I have. If you could post the PSD file somewhere, we could take a look at the actual file and figure out if it's your setup or something in that image.

suntzu · October 27, 2005

jfriend wrote:

A few ideas:

1) Is there anything unusual set in the two advanced tabs (shadows and highlights) in the smart sharpening dialog? Sometimes the wrong settings in there will block the sharpening effect that you intend?

I've reset the settings to default and it still doesn't change the picture.

jfriend wrote:

2) Are you sharpening the top-most layer. If you aren't sharpening the top-most layer, the preview window in the smart sharpen dialog will show the sharpening effect on the selected layer, but that may not be what you see in the final image if you have other layers on top?

3) Is the opacity of the layer you are sharpening set at 100%?

4) Is the blend mode of the layer you are sharpening set at normal?

I haven't made any changes to the image. They're coming straight out of the RAW (Canon) and I saved it as a PSD. I even tried it after doing the RAW processing. I made sure the sharpening setting on the RAW processsing was set to 0.

jfriend wrote:

Those are the only idea I have. If you could post the PSD file somewhere, we could take a look at the actual file and figure out if it's your setup or something in that image.

Picture (.PSD - 36.0MB)

Here's the file. It's being hosted on my web hosting service so try to only download it once.

Comments on the picture itself would be nice too but not needed.

Sam · October 27, 2005

I tried to download this to see if it would do the same thing on my computer, but when I tried to open the file I got a message stating that the image couldn't be opened because on an "end of file" descrepency (my word)?

I tried.

:

Sam

jfriend · October 27, 2005

Smart sharpen works for me

suntzu wrote:

I've reset the settings to default and it still doesn't change the picture.

I haven't made any changes to the image. They're coming straight out of the RAW (Canon) and I saved it as a PSD. I even tried it after doing the RAW processing. I made sure the sharpening setting on the RAW processsing was set to 0.

Picture (.PSD - 36.0MB)

Here's the file. It's being hosted on my web hosting service so try to only download it once.

Comments on the picture itself would be nice too but not needed.

Smart sharpening works for me on this photo. I can apply smart sharpening and when I hit OK, the effect I see in the preview stays on the image. I can go to the history palette and toggle back and forth between the pre-sharpened version and the sharpened version and see the effect. So, it looks like it may be something in your configuration, not a generic problem with this photo or CS2. Here's a few other things to try:

1) Convert to 8-bit and try it that way. This is a pretty large image in 16-bits, certainly not too large for CS2, but maybe that's triggering something in your setup.

2) Try making a duplicate layer of the background and applying sharpening to that.

3) Try the opposite setting for [x] More Accurate from what you were using.

4) Try the different blur types (motion, gaussian, lens) to see if one doesn't have the problem.

5) Use USM sharpening instead. This photo seems to do pretty good (no halos) with some hefty USM to try to counter the motion blur. I don't usually go this extreme, but this one worked pretty decent with radius=1, threshold=2, amount=400.

I don't know what else to suggest other than to try over in the Adobe forums.

On the picture itself, it's a nice pose, but isn't very sharp when you look up close. It also needs to be straightened so that either the flooring in the foreground or the fence in the background is level, whichever seems to be more important in making the photo feel balanced. In order to rotate it and not cut off any of the subjects, you will have to clone in some new foreground at the edges.

In playing with smart sharpen's motion blur, it appears to have some motion blur (there's a noticeable improvement in sharpening at 54 degrees motion blur). Given that the photo was taken at 1/60th, maybe there was some camera shake.

suntzu · October 27, 2005

jfriend wrote:

Smart sharpening works for me on this photo. I can apply smart sharpening and when I hit OK, the effect I see in the preview stays on the image. I can go to the history palette and toggle back and forth between the pre-sharpened version and the sharpened version and see the effect. So, it looks like it may be something in your configuration, not a generic problem with this photo or CS2. Here's a few other things to try:

1) Convert to 8-bit and try it that way. This is a pretty large image in 16-bits, certainly not too large for CS2, but maybe that's triggering something in your setup.

2) Try making a duplicate layer of the background and applying sharpening to that.

3) Try the opposite setting for [x] More Accurate from what you were using.

4) Try the different blur types (motion, gaussian, lens) to see if one doesn't have the problem.

5) Use USM sharpening instead. This photo seems to do pretty good (no halos) with some hefty USM to try to counter the motion blur. I don't usually go this extreme, but this one worked pretty decent with radius=1, threshold=2, amount=400.

I don't know what else to suggest other than to try over in the Adobe forums.

On the picture itself, it's a nice pose, but isn't very sharp when you look up close. It also needs to be straightened so that either the flooring in the foreground or the fence in the background is level, whichever seems to be more important in making the photo feel balanced. In order to rotate it and not cut off any of the subjects, you will have to clone in some new foreground at the edges.

In playing with smart sharpen's motion blur, it appears to have some motion blur (there's a noticeable improvement in sharpening at 54 degrees motion blur). Given that the photo was taken at 1/60th, maybe there was some camera shake.

Thanks for the reply!

Yeah, there was probably some camera shake. I'm just starting out and need to develope some smooth muscle memory for my shots.

Yeah, I'll try and use some other smart smarten options. Since this only happens with a large photo and not when I resize it down, could it be the amount of RAM I have in the system? I have 512MB and I'm thinking it can't load enough of the image into memory to work with. Although it does show the changes in preview mode.

suntzu · October 27, 2005

jfriend wrote:

5) Use USM sharpening instead. This photo seems to do pretty good (no halos) with some hefty USM to try to counter the motion blur. I don't usually go this extreme, but this one worked pretty decent with radius=1, threshold=2, amount=400.

I don't know what else to suggest other than to try over in the Adobe forums.

On the picture itself, it's a nice pose, but isn't very sharp when you look up close. It also needs to be straightened so that either the flooring in the foreground or the fence in the background is level, whichever seems to be more important in making the photo feel balanced. In order to rotate it and not cut off any of the subjects, you will have to clone in some new foreground at the edges.

Arrrrrggh!

Sorry.

Using the USM works like a charm and you're right. That 400% is pretty darn high. Also, thanks for the tip on making the floor/fence straight. It really does make a picture better. I didn't have to clone or anything. There's more than enough pixels for a 4 x 6.

I'll still look into the Smart Sharpen problem though.

jfriend · October 27, 2005

Try converting to 8-bits to make the image smaller

suntzu wrote:

Thanks for the reply!

Yeah, there was probably some camera shake. I'm just starting out and need to develope some smooth muscle memory for my shots.

Yeah, I'll try and use some other smart smarten options. Since this only happens with a large photo and not when I resize it down, could it be the amount of RAM I have in the system? I have 512MB and I'm thinking it can't load enough of the image into memory to work with. Although it does show the changes in preview mode.

It could be related to RAM. That's why I suggested trying to convert this trouble image to 8-bits first. In the menus just do Image/Mode/8 bits per channel. That will immediately shrink the amount of RAM your image uses in half. Then you can try smart sharpen again.

For CS2, you are going to want more than 512MB (at least 1GB), particularly if you are going to be working on 16-bit images like this one.

suntzu · October 27, 2005

I'm starting to think it's the RAM. My Desktop also has 512MB and the same thing happens.

Well.... If there was ever an excuse to buy more RAM, now would be the time.

Does anyone know if there's a benefit to using 2GB of RAM for the size of the files I'm working with (2048 x 3072) or should I only get 1GB (well, 1.5GB actually)?

jfriend · October 27, 2005

Go for 2GB if you can afford it

suntzu wrote:

I'm starting to think it's the RAM. My Desktop also has 512MB and the same thing happens.

Well.... If there was ever an excuse to buy more RAM, now would be the time.

Does anyone know if there's a benefit to using 2GB of RAM for the size of the files I'm working with (2048 x 3072) or should I only get 1GB (well, 1.5GB actually)?

If you can afford 2GB, go for it. I've got 1GB and wish I had 2GB. Even if a single image doesn't demand more than 1GB, as soon as you have multiple images open, Bridge open, several browser windows open, your email open, etc..., you will wish you had more than 1GB.

Converting to 8-bit as a test would be a good indicator of whether it's memory related or not.