Reflection in a Merc

bfjr

lensmole

Now that is a fantastic shot ! you could park that in the office of a C.E.O.

Richard

Great way to start the new year, Ben. It's a beaut.

macgart

I really like this shot. Simple but evocative.

RSL

I hate to be the guy who tosses a problem into the punchbowl but would someone please explain to me WHY they think this is either a good street shot or a good example of photojournalism? I can agree that it's a fun example of a reflection, but...

M38A1

Ben captured a good street shot simply because it's life as it happens on the street. A moment preserved in time which I'd tend to think made everyone who looked at it actually study it to see what was going on. Not only is it "...a fun reflection", but the composition of that reflection is incredible in that you really have to think to comprehend if the driver is in or out of the vehicle.

It's real. It's life. It made you think. It's street.

.

rainbow

Took a second look to figure out that he is a reflection and that the steering wheel is facing away. I like the window curve being mimicked by the branch reflection, too.

lensmole

RSL wrote: »

I hate to be the guy who tosses a problem into the punchbowl but would someone please explain to me WHY they think this is either a good street shot or a good example of photojournalism? I can agree that it's a fun example of a reflection, but...

Abstract : is one of the 5 most popular types of street photography.

This type of street photography does not record the strict description of an event in time, but the feeling of it. Reflections, blurs, shadows, colors, …, are used to project you in a place where time and location are undefined. The human element of these pictures is often abstract, be it silhouettes, forms or simply the feel of it. These pictures are extremely difficult to craft since it often calls for a perfect balance between subject and composition. The biggest drawback of this type of street photography is that 95% of the time, it will not be understood by your peers, making it very difficult to produce consistently good images.. Here is a link for you http://www.yanidel.net/2011/10/05/the-five-popular-types-of-street-photography/

richardman

It's OK to praise our fellow photographers :-)

But I do agree with Russ.

And no, I like Saul Leiter, this is not it.

Sorry.

Richard

RSL wrote: »

I hate to be the guy who tosses a problem into the punchbowl but would someone please explain to me WHY they think this is either a good street shot or a good example of photojournalism? I can agree that it's a fun example of a reflection, but...

As you probably know by now, I couldn't care less about taxonomy. The image itself is the only thing that matters to me, not what category it belongs to. Aside from the coolness of the old car itself, this one has stuff to look at on four separate planes: the exterior reflection behind the camera, the exterior of the car, the interior of the car and the background on the far side of the car. The reflected face is close enough to the driver position that one can imagine him behind the wheel, even though he's not. So it's an image one can explore with pleasure.

RSL

Critiques?
Richard, my first question is: if, as you say, you couldn't care less about taxonomy why is this forum called "Street & PJ" instead of something like "Personal Snapshots?" You say you don't care what category a picture belongs to, but "Street & PJ," the forum you moderate, names two categories.

My next question is this: Is there supposed to be a critiquing element in Street & PJ? There seem to be only two or three of us on here willing to speak a discouraging word, and when we do there's usually a violent reaction because some people think we're insulting the poster.

Let's take Ben's "Reflections in a Merc" as an example. When I question one of Ben's posts, I'm not questioning or insulting Ben. Ben's a damn good photographer -- one of the best on here, but nobody -- nobody -- not HCB, not Elliott Erwitt, not Robert Frank, not Walker Evans, or even all four working full days on the street together could possibly produce good street or photojournalistic photographs at the rate Ben posts pictures. So, logically one might assume that some of Ben's posts might be less than top-notch. I'm out with a camera most days, and even when I try very hard to cull intelligently, when I look back I find that some of my posts are sub-par. It's a normal part of human nature to over-rate your latest product. The thing you just finished usually seems the best thing you've done yet, especially if it involved hard work or unusual luck.

Now, I don't have a problem with people posting sub-par pictures. What I do have a problem with is a sub-par picture -- my own or anybody else's -- that nobody questions. But that's based on the assumption that I'm posting on a forum where some critiquing is going on. If there's no intent to critique then there's no problem. Anything goes.

There's an interesting approach to that problem on Luminous Landscape. In the "User Critiques" forum there's one thread, which at last look had 631 replies and 30,816 views, titled "Without Prejudice." "User Critiques" is a forum for people to critique other people's pictures, and the criticism can be very helpful, especially when the critique goes straight to the point and doesn't try to spare the poster's feelings. I've learned some important things about landscape photography, which I'm still not very good at, by having some of the capable landscape people come down hard on my flubs. But "Without Prejudice" is a thread where anybody can dump any kind of picture, and criticism is ruled out.

If the rule on "Street & PJ" is "Without Prejudice," okay, but let's say so right up front so that a beginner who wants to learn street photography doesn't come here because of the forum's title and believe that stuff that falls short and isn't critiqued is good street photography. As I said in my response to the latest message in which you almost kicked me off, perpetual uplift only works well in brassieres. Effective criticism can't all be sweetness and light: "good shot," or"+1."

bdcolen

Can we give this debate, and endless lecturing, a rest? Most people here are here for fun. Let people have fun. Does that mean that if a photo sucks we should say it's good? Of course not. But this endless 'let me tell you why this is not street photography or photo journalism' has really gotten to be a pain in the butt . When I google various names of the lecturers here I do not find anything, anywhere, suggesting the possession of special expertise . So please, can we drop it for a while? Sure, it's great to point to articles, exhibits, and work by the greats of photo journalism and street photography; we can all improve, we can only improve, by looking at photos. But the lectures? Not really.

RSL

Thanks, BD. That answers my question.

bfjr

Let's take Ben's "Reflections in a Merc" as an example. When I question one of Ben's posts, I'm not questioning or insulting Ben. Ben's a damn good photographer -- one of the best on here, but nobody -- nobody -- not HCB, not Elliott Erwitt, not Robert Frank, not Walker Evans, or even all four working full days on the street together could possibly produce good street or photojournalistic photographs at the rate Ben posts pictures. So, logically one might assume that some of Ben's posts might be less than top-notch. I'm out with a camera most days, and even when I try very hard to cull intelligently, when I look back I find that some of my posts are sub-par. It's a normal part of human nature to over-rate your latest product. The thing you just finished usually seems the best thing you've done yet, especially if it involved hard work or unusual luck.

Wow my name in the same sentence as all those greats, Thanks.
Never feel insulted Russ, honest.

Maybe I just have an abundance of luck

richardman

I am the weirdo. I learn a lot by seeing what other people say about a photograph. I mean, I have my own assessment of course, but I feel that my eyes have benefited from critiques both on my photos and other people's photos.

bfjr

lensmole wrote: »

Now that is a fantastic shot ! you could park that in the office of a C.E.O.

Richard wrote: »

Great way to start the new year, Ben. It's a beaut.

macgart wrote: »

I really like this shot. Simple but evocative.

Molsondog wrote: »

Totally agree.

Thanks Folks.
Macgart, saw your post on "People" post here anytime.

bfjr

richardman wrote: »

It's OK to praise our fellow photographers :-)

But I do agree with Russ.

And no, I like Saul Leiter, this is not it.

Sorry.

richardman wrote: »

I am the weirdo. I learn a lot by seeing what other people say about a photograph. I mean, I have my own assessment of course, but I feel that my eyes have benefited from critiques both on my photos and other people's photos.

Yes Richard, it is a "Benjamin" not a "Leiter".
I do believe in emulation, not mimicking.

Also no need to ever be Sorry with me
Lastly, Weirdo? You are Preaching to the Choir :ivar

bfjr

M38A1 wrote: »

Ben captured a good street shot simply because it's life as it happens on the street. A moment preserved in time which I'd tend to think made everyone who looked at it actually study it to see what was going on. Not only is it "...a fun reflection", but the composition of that reflection is incredible in that you really have to think to comprehend if the driver is in or out of the vehicle.

It's real. It's life. It made you think. It's street.

.

rainbow wrote: »

Took a second look to figure out that he is a reflection and that the steering wheel is facing away. I like the window curve being mimicked by the branch reflection, too.

lensmole wrote: »

Abstract : is one of the 5 most popular types of street photography.

This type of street photography does not record the strict description of an event in time, but the feeling of it. Reflections, blurs, shadows, colors, …, are used to project you in a place where time and location are undefined. The human element of these pictures is often abstract, be it silhouettes, forms or simply the feel of it. These pictures are extremely difficult to craft since it often calls for a perfect balance between subject and composition. The biggest drawback of this type of street photography is that 95% of the time, it will not be understood by your peers, making it very difficult to produce consistently good images.. Here is a link for you http://www.yanidel.net/2011/10/05/the-five-popular-types-of-street-photography/

Richard wrote: »

As you probably know by now, I couldn't care less about taxonomy. The image itself is the only thing that matters to me, not what category it belongs to. Aside from the coolness of the old car itself, this one has stuff to look at on four separate planes: the exterior reflection behind the camera, the exterior of the car, the interior of the car and the background on the far side of the car. The reflected face is close enough to the driver position that one can imagine him behind the wheel, even though he's not. So it's an image one can explore with pleasure.

Thank You big time for this.
I don't know how much it well help Russ see the light but ............
it sure helps me now and in the future when seeking fresh goods s

lizzard_nyc

I like it Benjamin.

Part of an earlier series no?

I'm drawn to this character, the ride and the palm tree(?) reflections.

say Ben, are you anywhere near Miami?

bfjr

lizzard_nyc wrote: »

I like it Benjamin.

Part of an earlier series no?

I'm drawn to this character, the ride and the palm tree(?) reflections.

say Ben, are you anywhere near Miami?

Thanks
Yes but a current capture

Good God NO, that would put way to close to our beloved HarryB !! :wow

I'm way on the correct Coast of Sunny California

lizzard_nyc

bfjr wrote: »

Thanks
Yes but a current capture

Good God NO, that would put way to close to our beloved HarryB !! :wow

I'm way on the correct Coast of Sunny California

oops:)
Will be in Miami next month and was going to try and juggle the kids for a meetup.
Though I frequently street shoot when I have them too.

I guess it's a long drive for you.

bfjr

lizzard_nyc wrote: »

oops:)
Will be in Miami next month and was going to try and juggle the kids for a meetup.
Though I frequently street shoot when I have them too.

I guess it's a long drive for you.

Or for YOU !
dang that's two meetups I've blown in last two days !

Maybe someday Maybe someday