Talking About Projects

bfjr

I just decided to try one myself.

It's called "Sunbridge"

Here's a teaser



Although I have access, I've decided to do this candidly.
Anywho, what you Folks think, OK or did just fall out of a Tree :wink

rainbow

It's a good teaser! Good depiction of what looks to be a nursing home or assisted care facility. I like the diagonal with the two subjects lined up in parallel poses.

I look forward to more from this project.

RSL

It's a good start, Ben. It looks as if this project could be very interesting.

bdcolen

Great project Ben. BUT...Be VERY aware if HIPA and make SURE you have iron clad releases from EVERYONE you photograph, or their legal guardians. A "sure you can photograph" here could land you in legal excrement so deep even seeing the sun would be beyond possibility. You could end up with the Feds on your butt. And I am NOT exaggerating.

bfjr

bdcolen wrote: »

Great project Ben. BUT...Be VERY aware if HIPA and make SURE you have iron clad releases from EVERYONE you photograph, or their legal guardians. A "sure you can photograph" here could land you in legal excrement so deep even seeing the sun would be beyond possibility. You could end up with the Feds on your butt. And I am NOT exaggerating.

Really?
Well some of above I am aware but that's some deep poo you're talking about.
Ok, thanks more research is called for.

Thanks again.

lizzard_nyc

bfjr wrote: »

Really?
Well some of above I am aware but that's some deep poo you're talking about.
Ok, thanks more research is called for.

Thanks again.

I want to say HIPAA only applies to medical providers and it has to due w/ dispensing medical ilnformation.

take a look here Ben
http://privacyruleandresearch.nih.gov/pr_06.asp

however--since you are not in a public place and the subjects are being shot without their consent that may be something totally different and apart from a HIPAA violation but maybe just as bad (legally speaking).


Love the shot though Ben, and I was already excited about future contributions.

jhefti

HIPAA is not relevant here; and even if it were, the person/institution who gave you permission is more at risk. But definitely worth checking out in any case.

I must say I am surprised that you got permission to do this. Did you sign a contract outlining your rights and responsibilities? If so, you might want to start by reading that first. It might have some language that requires you also to get permission from the individual subjects.

bdcolen

bfjr wrote: »

Really?
Well some of above I am aware but that's some deep poo you're talking about.
Ok, thanks more research is called for.

Thanks again.

Not trying to scare you off, but the privacy aspects of HIPA - Health Insurance Portability Act (?) - have created all sorts of hellishness for photographers and reporters, all designed to protect patient privacy. Back when I started covering health care and medicine as a reporter, I literally would walk into a hospital emergency room, plop down, and just start interviewing people waiting to be seen. Now, good luck getting past the front door. And when I spent six weeks in the 17 rooms of a hospital's "Main O.R." reporting for my book, OR, I did not have permission from ANY of the unconscious patients to see them naked, and watch them get cut stem to stern. Yes, I changed their names unless I later interviewed them, but still...oh, and I photographed all the procedures to give myself visual "notes." Now? NO WAY.
A friend, a physician, who did a project in which he photographed sick children who were his patients - and from whose parents he had signed releases - went through hell with his hospital's attorneys when someone filed a complaint with the Feds when they saw the photos posted on line. He spent a good deal of money on legal help to get the mess straightened out. All of which is to say, great project, but be very, very careful.

bdcolen

jhefti wrote: »

HIPAA is not relevant here; and even if it were, the person/institution who gave you permission is more at risk. But definitely worth checking out in any case.

I must say I am surprised that you got permission to do this. Did you sign a contract outlining your rights and responsibilities? If so, you might want to start by reading that first. It might have some language that requires you also to get permission from the individual subjects.

And it is not relevant why? Does this facility get penny in Medicare or Medicaid funds? If so, it damn well is relevant. And the photographer is just as much on the hook as an institution that grants permission it shouldn't have granted. This is a cesspool - don't suggest that someone step into it. Unless you are an attorney who practices in this particular area of law, in which case I defer to your superior knowledge.

bdcolen

lizzard_nyc wrote: »

I want to say HIPAA only applies to medical providers and it has to due w/ dispensing medical ilnformation.

take a look here Ben
http://privacyruleandresearch.nih.gov/pr_06.asp

however--since you are not in a public place and the subjects are being shot without their consent that may be something totally different and apart from a HIPAA violation but maybe just as bad (legally speaking).


Love the shot though Ben, and I was already excited about future contributions.

Liz, the health care provider is potentially violating HIPPA regs if it allows Ben to violate patient privacy, and it is my understanding - from the case of a photographer friend - that the photographer is also on the hook. This is a messy, nasty area, and not one where one wants to try to play the technicality angles. No ironclad release, no photos. Period.

And yes, it's a terrific image, and I hope Ben can keep shooting.

jhefti

bdcolen wrote: »

And it is not relevant why? Does this facility get penny in Medicare or Medicaid funds? If so, it damn well is relevant. And the photographer is just as much on the hook as an institution that grants permission it shouldn't have granted. This is a cesspool - don't suggest that someone step into it. Unless you are an attorney who practices in this particular area of law, in which case I defer to your superior knowledge.

I'm a physician, not an attorney, who deals quite a bit with this issue (albeit not from a photographer's perspective) which is why I said:

1. The institution is liable and at highest risk, not the photographer. There is a legally binding contract between the patient and the institution which *requires* the institution and its employees to comply with HIPAA regulations. Unless the photog is actually employed by the institution, he is at much lower risk (but see below). This is why I am enormously surprised he was even let in to shoot!

2. The photog should definitely check out his responsibilities, starting with any agreement he signed with the institution. If there is any language in there regarding HIPAA regulations, then he could be held responsible (but probably won't).

3. The photog is still at risk for a private lawsuit--anyone is, for any reason. This would be my biggest concern as a shooter. And certainly, a release from every subject would go a long way to mitigate this risk.

Not saying that the photog is not at risk; just saying that HIPAA will not likely be the source of trouble. But as a disclaimer, I have no experience in this exact situation; just other situations in which outsiders managed to get hold of HIPAA-covered information and disseminated it without ill intent. In every case, it was the institution that was held accountable.

Richard

Most, maybe all healthcare facilities have HIPAA officers whose main job is to worry about their own liabilities. I'd try to have a talk with this person before proceeding to understand the issues and constraints.

jhefti

Richard wrote: »

Most, maybe all healthcare facilities have HIPAA officers whose main job is to worry about their own liabilities. I'd try to have a talk with this person before proceeding to understand the issues and constraints.

Probably the best advice I've heard here so far.

bfjr

It's a Strange, Strange World Indeed.

1st let Me thank B.D. and the members who were so quick to caution me,
because as it turns out..............

I have shot over the past 5 or so years at this Facility.
Everything from family matters to Holiday Functions for the Facility and some posted on
their rec room board. Even the "Teaser" was shot last week right in front of an Admin.
who stopped in the hallway so I could shoot and even said "I hope that's a good one".

However today when going to talk and visit I was met almost immediately by the Head Admin.
He was very cordially said that due to Privacy Issues I could not take photo within the Facility.
I assured them that I would (not worth debating, there was none) not and Holstered my Camera!

Man I got the feeling somebody blew the whistle on me!
Anyway gotta think on a new one, no worries there's plenty.
However now I wish that "Teaser" shot would of SUCKED more

Thanks again Folks for keeping my butt out of the fryer

rainbow

I no longer look forward to this project...

And I rest assured that you will not need us as character witnesses at your trial...

RSL

It was a good thought anyway, Ben, and it would be good if somebody would get the necessary permissions and do it.

jhefti

bfjr wrote: »

It's a Strange, Strange World Indeed.

1st let Me thank B.D. and the members who were so quick to caution me,
because as it turns out..............

I have shot over the past 5 or so years at this Facility.
Everything from family matters to Holiday Functions for the Facility and some posted on
their rec room board. Even the "Teaser" was shot last week right in front of an Admin.
who stopped in the hallway so I could shoot and even said "I hope that's a good one".

However today when going to talk and visit I was met almost immediately by the Head Admin.
He was very cordially said that due to Privacy Issues I could not take photo within the Facility.
I assured them that I would (not worth debating, there was none) not and Holstered my Camera!

Man I got the feeling somebody blew the whistle on me!
Anyway gotta think on a new one, no worries there's plenty.
However now I wish that "Teaser" shot would of SUCKED more

Thanks again Folks for keeping my butt out of the fryer

Sorry about that...I was looking forward to seeing a gallery!

I have thought many times about taking pictures in the hospital. I do a lot of work with cancer patients, and have been seriously tempted but never tried. HIPAA aside (and it certainly would be an issue for me), it just seems like a real invasion of privacy.

Maybe you could get permission to shoot individual patients when they are not on the premises???

M38A1

I'm thinking your Hospital Admin has at some point in the past found your work posted here and saw this one with the proposed series. The coincidence of being able to shoot freely for so long, then like a light switch shut-down would lead one to believe such.

torags

Ahhh... I have a project story. No intent to hijack, but maybe worth a chuckle.

I decided to make garbage a project (how we as a society handle it,destroy recycle, etc)

I thought going to the collection site (where I bring my recycle stuff) would add dimension.

So I parked got out with cam in hand to go to the doorway to shoot a pile of garbage.

An employee came over and told me I can't park or take pictures and I would have to leave.

Ha! Kicked out of a garbage dump.... Now that's embarrassing.....

dlplumer

bfjr wrote: »

I just decided to try one myself.

It's called "Sunbridge"

Here's a teaser



Although I have access, I've decided to do this candidly.
Anywho, what you Folks think, OK or did just fall out of a Tree

Aside from all the legal stuff, Ben, great capture!

torags

+1 on Dan's comment Ben

bdcolen

M38A1 wrote: »

I'm thinking your Hospital Admin has at some point in the past found your work posted here and saw this one with the proposed series. The coincidence of being able to shoot freely for so long, then like a light switch shut-down would lead one to believe such.

Diito

bdcolen

And unfortunate.

bfjr

jhefti wrote: »

Sorry about that...I was looking forward to seeing a gallery!

I have thought many times about taking pictures in the hospital. I do a lot of work with cancer patients, and have been seriously tempted but never tried. HIPAA aside (and it certainly would be an issue for me), it just seems like a real invasion of privacy.

Maybe you could get permission to shoot individual patients when they are not on the premises???

Thanks Doc for bringing your expertise here it was/is of value.

I did want to touch on one thing you said above, and this will sound corny but true for me.

I never feel that I am invading while in pursuit of images, because my heart and mind are noble and at peace with that pursuit.
However I live here in the real world so I am cautious about certain situations.
If it feels uncomfortable for me then I use that as a gauge to perhaps backoff.

Having said that I do feel a working Hospital might raise my uncomfortable meter for me as well