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Beauty Dish v Softbox
Other than the catchlight shape, what's the difference in performance between a beauty dish and a softbox of similar size? Why would one be preferred over the other for a straight-on lighting setup?
John :
Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
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Youtube and search for "the Slanted Lens" Its a whole series of videos done by Jay P Morgan.
He does one about the Beauty dish where he says the BD is Between a Soft Box and an Umbrella.
"The BD is a Harder light than a Softbox but softer than an Umbrella"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-cQyJWNvLY
He also has a Video comparing Large, meduim and small soft boxes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVy2nwoataM&feature=related
HTH It was/is useful information to me.
EOS Rebel XS Digital/ EOS 7D/ EOS 6D
50mm f1.8/ Tamron 70-200 f2.8 is/ 24-105 f4L
Canon speedlights and Alien Bees
The softbox will reflect in the eyes of the model as a square or whatever, hence the catchlight isn't that nice.
The use of a beauty dish, creates a nice round catchlight in the eyes. It is however harder light as the diameter of a beauty dish is typically around 1 foot, you can add a diffuser to make it a bit softer or even a honeycomb to further direct the light.
So that is what I know about it......for what it is worth.
If the goal is to provide a dramatic look in which stronger shadows are desired and you have the time to play with positioning to get those shadows in just the right place, the beauty dish would be the way to go.
As for the round vs. rectangle catch-light debate; if the shape of your catch-light is a big deal to you, and to make you happy said catch-light must be round, it is relatively simple to cut a circle in a piece of black cloth and attach it to the face of your softbox.
Indeed, its all about taste. Here in continental Europe catch-lights are preferred to be small and round.
As to the light type harsh vs soft here is a very simple rule:
1. The bigger the surfaces of the light source becomes, how softer the light will be.
2. The closer the light source is to the subject , the softer the light will be.
Soft light has a subtle transition between bright and darker area's , harsh light has distinct border between the bright and dark area's with a sudden transition.
This is true as a general rule, but I'm finding out that the light seems to come out of the beauty dish in a more focused manner, and that there's far less wrap-around than from a soft box of the same size. A 24" square SB has the same surface area as a 27" BD.
Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
Right. More focused = Harder Light = Less Wrap Around
I think all three terms are somewhat synonymous. When I say harder light, I mean that the shadows are more pronounced. I think you mean the same when you say that it's "more focused". Also, harder shadows mean they don't wrap.
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In a simple example (a human portrait, single light in from of the subject) we can easily observe the following scenarios:
* bare speedlight 1ft away from the face: soft-to-sharp light, strong wraparound
* vertical 3'x2" striplight 2ft away: rather soft light, decent wraparound
* 3'x4' softbox 2ft away: very soft light, almost no wraparound (sides are lit by be parts of the light source)
* bare speedlight 6ft away: sharp light, weak wraparound
* 3'x4' softbox 6ft away: soft light, weak wraparound
* any light 12ft away: while it can still be soft if you use a giant diffuser, there will be almost no wraparound effect as the distance from the light source is far greater than human head's depth (~1ft)
I apologize if this is confusing, but, as I said, there is no simple linear dependency between softness and "wrapness" as in " the softer the light, the stronger/weaker the wraparound is". They play by their own rules and one need to know them all to reach the desired lighting effect.
The edge of a shadow is called its acuity. The difference between white and black can be very sharp or very graduated. If you look at the shadows edge of acutiy you can tell if the light was close or far from the subject. Look at your shadow in direct sunlight and notice the edge of acuity. Then try to observe it on an overcast day. You will see a major difference, on a sunny day the shadow is sharp due to a very bright, small light source, far away. On an overcast day the light is diffused and somewhat closer due to the cloud cover diffusing the light and you shadow has much less of a sharp edge. So the closer you bring you light to your subject the softer that edge gets, move it back and it gets sharper. Also the larger the light source the softer the edge.
Confusing yes, you've got to play with it and observe.
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There's nothing confusing about that, Charles. Size and distance have nothing to do, however, with why a SB and beauty dish give very different kinds of illumination.
Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
www.cameraone.biz
But, but, but I stipulated they were the same size. 24" SB and 27" BD.
24 x 24 = 576
13.5 x 13.5 x 3.141597 . . . = 572.556 (close enuf fer me)
Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
www.cameraone.biz
That diagram would be good to see. I think it has everything to do with the shape of the BD. The bowl shape and diffuser disc combine to cause the light "rays" to come out aimed more to the front, regardless of the particular point on the surface or the disc from which they reflect. (Or something like that.)
For the same reason, a parabolic SB has a different light than a shallower one. I also believe that SBs like the Apollo that shoot the speedlight into the back of the box produce a more beauty-dish-type light than, say, an EZ-Box Hotshoe that shoots the light toward the front through diffuser panels.
Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
Wouldn't the light from a beauty dish be similar to soft-box light if it were covered with a white diffuser material?
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Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
I'll venture to throw this in the pot. The inner surface of a softbox isn't as "polished" as that of the Beauty Dish. The "Soft" inner reflection surface doesn't "push" the light out like the "Hard" glossy inner surface of a Beauty Dish. This giving the Beauty Dish just a little "Harder" light coming through whatever modifier is attached.
Just my thought.
EOS Rebel XS Digital/ EOS 7D/ EOS 6D
50mm f1.8/ Tamron 70-200 f2.8 is/ 24-105 f4L
Canon speedlights and Alien Bees
www.cameraone.biz
I think your drawing really paints the picture well. Although a BD and Softbox could have the similar dimensions of the opening, the light is reflected at different angles. The BD will reflect the light in a more concentrated pattern. Where the Softbox has a wider spread of light coming out due to the light being bounced around inside. Also, the internal volume of a softbox is greater than a BD of the same size. Basically, if you measure the cubic inches of a 24" softbox and compare it to a 27" BD, the softbox is larger.
Am I'm right or just talking out of my butt here?
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You are correct. BD produces more "focused" light (of course, that is if you don't put a sock on it:-), so do the metallic umbrellas and reflecting PLM systems. The only way to "focus" the light from the softbox (to a degree) is to put a grid on it.
The relatively easy way to see the actual light distribution from a specifc "light + modifier" combination is to point to a large evenly painted suface (wall, backdrop), take a shot of that, bring it to PS (or whatever favorite photoeditor you use) and then use Posterize method for a better visibility of the "light zones". Attached is merely an artificial sample of how the result would look like (16 levels).
Very nice Nik. I think I remember reading something on this... using Posterize filter to see the light pattern. So cool.
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