What batteries?

Moving Pictures

Eons ago, when I first dabbled in flashes, I used Renewal-brand rechargeble alkaline batteries. I've seen discussions about using NiMh batteries, but I've always liked the rechargeable alkalines. Now, the alkalines give you 1.5v, while the NiMh flavour gives you 1.2v. I know that flash power is about current ...
but ... there's a part of me that says the extra voltage is important.

So - what say the flash users? Am I on the wrong plane, here?

Icebear

I use and really like MAHA Imideon NiMH batteries. I have a bunch of Nikon Speedlights that use AAs so I have, like 64 of the things. A lot of people on the forum swear by Eneloops. This (in some forums (fora?) has gotten as stupid as Ford v Chevy, Canon v Nikon, Harley v BMW, etc. They are both worth the money you pay for them. Very low self discharge rates, so you can rely on them after long storage. My Imideons give me noticably better recycle times than alkalines.

Dan7312

There is a tradeoff between how much charge a NiMH battery can hold and how long it can hold it. The Sanyo 2700 holds more charge, meaning flashes before you have change batteries, than the Eneloop or other batteries that hold their charge for a long time. But the Sanyo self-discharges much more quickly than the eneloop. Pays you money and takes your choice

Icebear wrote: »

I use and really like MAHA Imideon NiMH batteries. I have a bunch of Nikon Speedlights that use AAs so I have, like 64 of the things. A lot of people on the forum swear by Eneloops. This (in some forums (fora?) has gotten as stupid as Ford v Chevy, Canon v Nikon, Harley v BMW, etc. They are both worth the money you pay for them. Very low self discharge rates, so you can rely on them after long storage. My Imideons give me noticably better recycle times than alkalines.

divamum

A recommendation for Tenergy low-discharge batteries as well; slightly cheaper (and higher aH) than the Eneloops, but using similar technology. They've performed extremely well in my two Canon speedlights since I bought them about a year ago.

jziegler

As an electrical engineer, I can say that alkalines are not a good choice for flash (although I know little about the rechargeable alkalines, they never god to be very popular). Alkaline batteries have a higher internal resistance than NiMH batteries, so they will heat up more, and limit the current slowing the recharge time. NiMH have a lower resisntance, so they can deliver more current, which is what a flash needs to recharge faster.

There are 2 basic types of NiMH batteries, low self-discharge and normal.

All NiMH batteries will lose their charge when not in use. In the normal ones, this will be noticeable in as little as a week or two. Low self-discharge cells will take a year or more for you to reall notice. But, the price is that low self-discharge batteries have a lower total capacity.

So, the big question comes down to how do you use the flash? A wedding photographer is probably better served with the normal NiMH batteries, as they will use all of that additional capacity in a single, long day. If you use the flash a few times, then put it away and pull it out several days, a week, or more later, then low self-discharge is the way to go.

Eneloop is the best known brand of low self-discharge batteries, but others have been mentioned here as well. I don't know the other brands, but they should all have similar performance.

Make sure that you buy a quality charger. Any charger that you buy should be microprocessor controlled so that it does not overcharge the batteries, which will shorten their life.

James

Art Scott

For my SB 900's I just could not justify the cost of batteries and the good chargers (MAHA with the cycling mode) over Quantum batteries and the their wall wart chargers.
I look on ebay and buy used Quantum's with charger (normally $50 or less) and if they don't hold charger, have them rebuilt (rebuilding costs me less than $30 (that is about the price of
4 eneloops) ... ... ... I hate changing batteries when shooting any event...for portraits..I still use my rechargeable AA's (eneloops, & Duracell)

jziegler

Art Scott wrote: »

For my SB 900's I just could not justify the cost of batteries and the good chargers (MAHA with the cycling mode) over Quantum batteries and the their wall wart chargers.
I look on ebay and buy used Quantum's with charger (normally $50 or less) and if they don't hold charger, have them rebuilt (rebuilding costs me less than $30 (that is about the price of
4 eneloops) ... ... ... I hate changing batteries when shooting any event...for portraits..I still use my rechargeable AA's (eneloops, & Duracell)

Art,

You were paying too much for the Eneloops. At amazon, they currently run around $20 for a pack of 8. I picked some up at Costco 10 for $20 not too long ago. A decent (but not top of the line) MAHA charger for 4 batteries runs a bit over $30.

James

Icebear

jziegler wrote: »

Art,

You were paying too much for the Eneloops. At amazon, they currently run around $20 for a pack of 8. I picked some up at Costco 10 for $20 not too long ago. A decent (but not top of the line) MAHA charger for 4 batteries runs a bit over $30.

James

Unless you only use one speedlight at a time, or don't use AAs in a gripped body for high frame rate, I'd opt for a top end MAHA eight cell charger. As much as these batteries cost, you really want to take good care of them.

Art Scott

Icebear wrote: »

Unless you only use one speedlight at a time, or don't use AAs in a gripped body for high frame rate, I'd opt for a top end MAHA eight cell charger. As much as these batteries cost, you really want to take good care of them.

exactly John ... ..
the 8 cell charger I was looking at was over $100, now it is around $85 from Thomas Distributing.... I have not looked into any AA in over 3 yrs as I have been quite happy with my QB1's ... ... I do not buy much off Amazon, except books, as I have no real buyer protection with them...kinda like buying off a forum in my opinion ... but I look to those retailers that will let me pay with PayPal (for the protection I get with using them).

At the time I was looking Thomas Distributing was about the only seller on the net...then i bought a 4 pack locally they were $27.99 .... I had also used used more expensive LenMar's and tossed them into a dumpster as they were totally crap... before that I was using Duracell's but then all local retailers switched to Ray O Vac and I only use them if it is a dire emergency and a Duracell isn't anywhere to be found.

Now I have a pack for each of my SB 900's and do not worry about overheating or running out of power for the flashes...for the cost of the Conditining Charger plus enough batteries to run 2 SB 900's (at the time) it was a lot less expensive to buy the cable for my SB 900's and rebuild my QB1's then buy a couple more to run my Sunpaks ... but then I have been using Quantum batteries for over 25 yrs ... ... ... and been very satisfied with them ... ...

I prefer to keep up with the 4 QB1's rather than the several dozen AA's I figured I would need ...now I was looking at them going into battery packs and those things are not cheap from Nikon (were retailing for over $200 each)... and the knock offs are still $25- 40 each... so a battery pack for each flash + 8 AA's for each pack and then a couple of back up packs and battery sets... at the time it was over a grand and I already had the QB1's being used for my sunpak and Vivatar flashes... that $40 cable was a no brainer to me

my method is not right for everyone ... but it works quite well for me.

Overfocused

Icebear wrote: »

I use and really like MAHA Imideon NiMH batteries. I have a bunch of Nikon Speedlights that use AAs so I have, like 64 of the things. A lot of people on the forum swear by Eneloops. This (in some forums (fora?) has gotten as stupid as Ford v Chevy, Canon v Nikon, Harley v BMW, etc. They are both worth the money you pay for them. Very low self discharge rates, so you can rely on them after long storage. My Imideons give me noticably better recycle times than alkalines.

divamum wrote: »

A recommendation for Tenergy low-discharge batteries as well; slightly cheaper (and higher aH) than the Eneloops, but using similar technology. They've performed extremely well in my two Canon speedlights since I bought them about a year ago.

Icebear wrote: »

Unless you only use one speedlight at a time, or don't use AAs in a gripped body for high frame rate, I'd opt for a top end MAHA eight cell charger. As much as these batteries cost, you really want to take good care of them.

Yes, yes, and yes. Maha Imedion makes the best rechargable AA's on the market. Eneloop is pretty much the same quality with a little less total amperage output according to candlelightforums.

Also, Gp ReCyko makes the best AAA's.

I currently own the Maha 4 slot charger, Maha AA's, and ReCyko AAAs and they do a fantastic job at large current draw.

Pupator

Art Scott wrote: »

I do not buy much off Amazon, except books, as I have no real buyer protection with them...kinda like buying off a forum in my opinion ... but I look to those retailers that will let me pay with PayPal (for the protection I get with using them).

Art,

Just to this point:

1) Trusting in Paypal's buyer protection is often a big mistake.

2) Amazon is one of the best customer-service retailers in the world. You are orders of magnitude safer buying from Amazon than some random retailer who happens to take paypal. Buying from Amazon is nothing like buying from someone in a forum (which I also do and have never had a bad experience with).

roakey

Revive an old thread! I was about to order some eneloops and noticed they have a new (I actually don't know just how new) "XX" battery -- anyone have any experience with this battery in flashes? Looks good on paper at least!

Roak

divamum

OOOH - those look great! My only concern would be overheating - I'll be interested to hear from others and see some reviews in due course....

cmason

Those do look interesting. But there is a graph in the image stack on Amazon, that shows these offer approx 100 more flashes per charge, but only offer 1/3 the number of lifetime charges; only 500 charges. So while you may get more flashes from each charge, you are going to be tossing these much sooner. The older "white" Eneloops are 500 mAh less than these XX batteries, so they need recharging sooner, but you can recharge them 1500 times.

In my use of rechargeable batteries, I fully charge a set prior to needing them. Then, on location, I load up the flash, and shoot away as normal. When I return home, I unpack my bags, including putting the batteries in the charger and forgetting about them. I don't check how much charge is left, and I never just leave them in the bag....there is nothing worse than needing a flash and having no batteries or dead batteries.

If you use them in this manner (I bet you do too), you need new batteries after 500 shoots with your flash. These XX are only $7 more, but I think I will skip them, until they get the recharge life increased.

divamum

I dunno. Since I don't use my flashes 365 days a year, I'd reckon I'd get at least 2-3 years out of a set rated for 500 recharges. Which doesn't sound too bad to me when I think of it like that, especially since the longer charge life means I likely wouldn't need to recharge during a shoot. I won't be a guinea pig so will wait for reviews, but they are definitely of interest to me. Ymmv....

paddler4

I'm using Ansmanns, but I was intrigued by the discussion of Maha/Powerex batteries. maybe someone can help sort this out for me. First, From their site, http://www.mahaenergy.com/batteries/, it looks like the Imedions people are recommending are actually low-self-discharge batteries and that they sell an alternative under their Powerex name that is 300 mAh higher in capacity and not low-self-discharge. For flash, wouldn't the latter be better? I would assume that the extra 300 mAh would lead to faster recycling in the flash. the cost, of course, is that you would have to charge them before use if they have been sitting unused.

cmason

I used the 'non low discharge' batteries before, and I do not recommend them. They die very quickly, like in a day or so, sometimes even overnight. The challenge is they are often low on charge when you want to use them, and only if you use them nearly immediately do they work well. The Eneloops you can charge a few sets, toss them in your bag, and use them throughout the weekend without bringing the charger with you. I have never missed the 300 mAh.

Overfocused

divamum wrote: »

I dunno. Since I don't use my flashes 365 days a year, I'd reckon I'd get at least 2-3 years out of a set rated for 500 recharges. Which doesn't sound too bad to me when I think of it like that, especially since the longer charge life means I likely wouldn't need to recharge during a shoot. I won't be a guinea pig so will wait for reviews, but they are definitely of interest to me. Ymmv....

I just bought enough sets of batteries that I know there's physically no way it is possible for me to use up all my batteries in 1 night even when there's 1 set that is partially used or at risk of being dead. (4 sets of batteries) And, if somehow they do all drain, I have a backup set of alkaline batteries as an emergency pack. (which I can't see happening I could take at least a few thousand flash photos on the settings I use before my stuff would die) Shooting ISO800/1600 makes it super easy on the flash when you do happen to need it. Although, the last wedding I shot I used the flash for maybe 100 pics, the other 1100 are all ambient. I hardly ever use it anyway, lol. But having enough sets makes it so you max out the use of all the batteries. I haven't lost a single rechargeable or any performance in them for 3 years, so far.

paddler4 wrote: »

I'm using Ansmanns, but I was intrigued by the discussion of Maha/Powerex batteries. maybe someone can help sort this out for me. First, From their site, http://www.mahaenergy.com/batteries/, it looks like the Imedions people are recommending are actually low-self-discharge batteries and that they sell an alternative under their Powerex name that is 300 mAh higher in capacity and not low-self-discharge. For flash, wouldn't the latter be better? I would assume that the extra 300 mAh would lead to faster recycling in the flash. the cost, of course, is that you would have to charge them before use if they have been sitting unused.

Maha has a higher capacity battery that is better for heavy rapid recharge use, and also the LSD batteries which are the 2400mAH model. They can take a charge quickly but its recommended overnight at 1 amp or less. I recommend and use the LSD batteries because they retain amazing performance even when dormant for months. There won't be much real world difference between the 2 Maha batteries for recycling time as they are both low internal resistance workhorses that can really cram power into the flash. The only significant difference is the total capacity of flashes (the LSD can still do hundreds) Plus they're bloody amazing for low-use devices like transmitters and last for years between charges.

paddler4

I want to use flash in burst mode for macro, which only works with extremely fast recycling. Hence my interest in the high capacity and not the slow self discharge.

Zerodog

I only use Eneloops now. Seem to be the most reliable for me in my flashes. Costco has them for a good price and they have chargers in the pack too. I thought it ws a waste to have this extra charger until I am at an event and I have 4 or 5 chargers going at once to recharge batteries.

bandgeekndb

I'm looking to replace my current Energizer rechargeables and this thread has been very helpful with the discussions of Maha's LSD Imedions and the Eneloop batteries.

I'm leaning towards the Mahas since people really seem to like them for flashes, which is what I really want mine for. My question is, they offer 5 chargers for the batteries, and a whole bunch of technical gibberish as to why one is better than the other. I'm pretty tech savvy, but hoping those who've used Mahas can cut through some of the marketing BS!

Which charger is "the best"? How important is auto vs. manual battery conditioning, the discharge capability, will I be harming the batteries or reducing their lifetime by choosing a more powerful, faster charger?

I am reading my way through this Battery/Charger FAQ, which is helping, but again, real world experience would be helpful to back up or shoot down the claims of the seller. Right now, I'm debating between the MH-C204GT and the MH-C204F, they're $20/$25 respectively before adding batteries. Comparison guide for the chargers is here!

Thank you in advance for your advice!

ziggy53

I use several chargers and which one I choose for any particular time depends on the situation.

Ideally, and for best battery life, a slow charger yields the best combination of total charge without overheating. I have an overnight charger which also has the advantage of charging 1, 2, 3, 4 or 8 AA/AAA batteries. Since each battery has its own controller, I also have some assurance that each battery has an optimal charge. I can also monitor the condition of each battery by watching to see how long they accept the charge. Batteries which are weak tend to charge quickly, because their capacity is reduced.

Sometimes a job comes up and there's just no time for a correct charge. Then I use a pair of rapid chargers; one hour and two hour respectively. The two-hour charger is preferable since it doesn't "bake" the batteries quite as much. The one-hour charger also doesn't seem to put as much "top" charge on the batteries, so they wind up with around 85% capacity.

A truly "smart" charger also has a trickle charge capability, to allow you to store the batteries (for a day or so) in the charger and be sure that each is full capacity when it's removed.

The reason I'm telling you all this is because only one charger on the page that you linked allows:

Independent charge of each battery. (Each battery will have an individualized charge, based on the condition of that battery.)
Fast charge option. (Best when you don't have time for a "proper" charge.)
Slow charge option. (Best service life and best topping charge.)
Trickle charge. (Allows you to "hold" the batteries after charge, maintaining full charge.)

That charger is the Maha MH-C401FS. Yes, it's the most expensive charger on that page. Over time the slow and proper charge (what they call a "Gentle" charge) will offer the best battery service life and pay back some of the charger investment.

http://www.thomasdistributing.com/Maha-MH-C401FS-DC-Battery-Charger--White-Model_p_381.html

JimKarczewski

Don't forget when using rechargeables, an analyzer is also REALLY helpful to "break in" new batteries and give you a true read on their capacity. Yeah, it takes up to 48 hours to break in new batteries, but I find it well worth it. I bought the new Eneloop XX black batteries last year for basketball. You break them in, it gives you a capacity in Mah for each cell. Now, you pair all the batteries as close in capacity as you can. Reason being as your batteries will last only as long as the weakest cell. So if you put in 2, 2500Mah batteries with 2, 1000's.. You are only going to get 1000 out of any of the batteries... Each cell should be within 10% of each other. Mine are usually within 10-15Mah. I'm anal like that and tag every battery with an identification label and half way through the season re-analyze the batteries and change the tags if needed.

I use the Maha analyzer that Thomas sells. It only does 4 at a time,which is why I have 2 of them!

cmason

I have been happy with the La Crosse BC-900. It does fast, slow and trickle charge, and charges each battery independently, though you can only set the current for the pair of batteries (ie set pair to charge at 500mAh, but each battery will charge independently depending on state of discharge the charger detects). I got mine from Thomas Distributing, but not sure if they sell it any longer. Amazon has them too.

I have been happy with it, no overheating etc. It seems it has been replaced with the BC-1000 now I suppose. Recommended

BC-900
BC-1000

joshhuntnm

i have found that new rechargables work better than old ones. They seem to wear out over time. I get a new set every wedding or two and try to keep the separate from the old ones.

bandgeekndb

ziggy53 wrote: »

Independent charge of each battery. (Each battery will have an individualized charge, based on the condition of that battery.)
Fast charge option. (Best when you don't have time for a "proper" charge.)
Slow charge option. (Best service life and best topping charge.)
Trickle charge. (Allows you to "hold" the batteries after charge, maintaining full charge.)

That charger is the Maha MH-C401FS. Yes, it's the most expensive charger on that page. Over time the slow and proper charge (what they call a "Gentle" charge) will offer the best battery service life and pay back some of the charger investment.

Thanks everyone, especially you ziggy! The price difference to get the better charger wasn't too bad, so I picked up the Maha charger you suggested and 2 sets of Imedion batteries. Combined with an emergency 4-pack of brand new AAs and I'll be set for just about anything in my normal repertoire!

David_S85

My days using trays of alkaline AA's are near an end and I'd like to begin using the newer rechargeable batt's also. Besides the obvious use in flash units, does anyone here also use these same NMiH batteries in other devices like LED flashlights, or in, say, Apple's bluetooth mice (which eat batteries for lunch)?

Might some NMiH batteries be a slightly different diameter? Any trouble fitting where an alkaline's would?

ziggy53

Replaceable Alkaline cells/batteries are still best for devices that need a full 1.5v per cell and have a lower discharge rate. (NiMH is 1.2v per cell.)

Yes, some high capacity NiMH cells/batteries use a larger diameter than the standard, and may not fit some devices without alterations. (A standard diameter for AA cells is 13.5–14.5 mm - 0.53–0.57 in.)

It's still possible to get rechargeable alkaline (1.5v) cells in AA form factor, but you need a special charger. They have the same problems as regular alkaline batteries in that they can leak if deep discharged, and they have the unique problem that if they don't properly charge they can leak and/or rupture. "iGo" appears to be a fairly popular name in this category, with good, but not great, customer ratings on Amazon.

Li-Ion rechargeable cells are available in AA size and supply 3.6v/3.7v per cell. "Dummy" AA cells are available to provide an electrical bridge, so that you can sometimes use a Li-Ion/dummy pair for devices that tolerate the moderate over-voltage (compared to alkaline cells/batteries.) It's best to check with the device manufacturer for anything expensive to make sure that they will accommodate the Li-Ion rechargeable properties first.

cmason

I use Enloop-style (low self-discharge, pre-charged or similar) rechargables for camera, flash and for my Mac trackpad and keyboard. They work great and to me are indistinguishable from standard alkaline batteries. I just pop them in the recharger when they go low, and have a second set to replace. They fit fine, though I have had trouble in a AA MiniMag light, where they are a very tight fit. Apple products are no problem, including the Trackpad which is machined fairly tightly. My LED Minimag light eats batteries, and while perhaps the standard alkaline batteries might last just a tiny bit longer, its disgusting how quickly I have to toss them, so I use rechargeables in them only now.

I have had good luck with Enloop brand, Energizer, Duracell, and Rayovac batteries, with a slight nod to Enloop. For 'regular' brands, look for the label to say 'pre-charged' rechargeable batteries. Enloops are a fairly good deal at Costco.

David_S85

Thank you both, for the info. Good to know they work in Apple devices.

David_S85

Still yet to do this. Some weeks back, and just prior to making the call to Thomas Distributing, my wife found another tray of AA's. Now only 10 AA alkaline batteries remain, and with my Apple mouse eating a pair every couple of weeks, it won't be long. But I keep finding more! I've now been pilfering all unused remotes to ultimately rid our house of the things. I suppose some devices might still need the power of 1.5v, or need the exact size of alkaline to fit, but I'm closing in. Thomas has raised prices since I last checked, but not by much.