Very attractive specifications at a very attractive price. It seems that the feature set has been though of very carefully. It will be interesting to see the quality of the images, especially at high ISO settings.
I have never owned a Nikon, but this release will certainly stop my 20D order until I can compare them in more detail.
So far it looks very interesting. I was considering selling my D100 and getting the D2X but this may be a more viable option depending on the AF speed.
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Very attractive specifications at a very attractive price. It seems that the feature set has been though of very carefully. It will be interesting to see the quality of the images, especially at high ISO settings.
I have never owned a Nikon, but this release will certainly stop my 20D order until I can compare them in more detail.
It looks like CCD vs CMOS sensor. The latter is better from a noise standpoint. We'll see!
Harry, put the grip on it and it looks almost just like the D2X! I wanted the D2X too but this is VERY tempting.
I agree John. I was going to go for the D2X next year but right now I'm leaning towards the D200. The D200 and my D2h would be an almost perfect combo. The 10 MP is fine for me and the 5 FPS is a major improvement over my D100.
I'm anxiously awaiting the reviews on the D200. If the focusing is fast an accurate and if the noise levels at ISO 620-800 are good I will be sold.
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Thanks Harry... That was a good review. The more I look at the D200, the more I think that I will get that rather than waiting to upgrade to a D2X. For the money it seems like a good deal and my D70 will make a good backup.
Have you seen any high ISO shots? At this point my main concern would be the image quality around ISO 800.
Harry,
It should be interesting to see how the CAM 1000 focusing system in the D200 compares to the CAM 2000 sytem found in the D2X. I have the D2X and I'm impressed with how much faster and more accurate the focus tracking is when compared with my D70 which has the CAM 900.
I suspect you would prefer the D2X with your type of shooting.
Thanks Harry... That was a good review. The more I look at the D200, the more I think that I will get that rather than waiting to upgrade to a D2X. For the money it seems like a good deal and my D70 will make a good backup.
Have you seen any high ISO shots? At this point my main concern would be the image quality around ISO 800.
Thanks,
Lee
Not yet Lee. That's one of my main concerns. Right now I can shoot up to 500 on my D2h w/o noise becoming an issue if the D200 can improve upon that I will be a very happy camper. Also being able to shoot at ISO 100 would be nice also.
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Harry,
It should be interesting to see how the CAM 1000 focusing system in the D200 compares to the CAM 2000 sytem found in the D2X. I have the D2X and I'm impressed with how much faster and more accurate the focus tracking is when compared with my D70 which has the CAM 900.
I suspect you would prefer the D2X with your type of shooting.
mitch
Hey Mitch,
The focusing is the other main issue for me. I had no problems with the D100 but when I got the D2h its focusing speed and accuracy knocked my socks off. So far the initial reports on the D200's focusing are very encouraging.
I would definitely prefer the D2X but I'm still an amateur and I have to ask if the D2X is worth the additional $3K for what I do. That $3K could buy me the ultra wide and high quality mid-zooms that I want to fill in my glass collection. I'm also hankering for a 300mm for flight shots. Ah, there's so much that I want and so little $ to buy it with. :cry
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
I'm thinking this camera would complement my D2H perfectly. Just have to sell the D70 and convince my wife I need this camera
That's my thinking also. I tell you what. I'll talk to your wife for you and you can talk to Linda for me.
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
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Matthew SavilleRegistered Users, Retired ModPosts: 3,352Major grins
edited November 2, 2005
Absolutely beautiful, near-perfect camera
Nikon has proven that (opposite of Canon's current tactic) there is INDEED a market for well rounded, well built cameras that will last longer than merely "until the next version is released"... Nikon's message is that some photographers don't want a camera that lets some specs suffer just to be able to afford a few stellar specs.
I mean, 10.2 megapixels for $1,700? Out of context, that's a camera almost nobody would buy... (Think about it- the 20D replacement will beat 10.2 MP at hundreds less, that's very likely!) ...So then, why is everybody (yes, even my Canon friends) saying that the D200 is a great camera at an incredible price? It's the pro mag-alloy body, the weather sealing, the awesome viewfinder, and the plethora of pro-level features that make the camera such a gem.
In my opinion, Nikon's proved that it's not about "competing" with another company's lineup. The D200 is nothing like the 20D, and nothing like the 5D. Sure, people are having to decide "between" them, but the D200 is very far separated in that it will be the only choice for shooters who need what the D200 offers.
Admittedly, I think the market right now is indeed leaning in favor of the 20D and the 5D, of course. 90% or more of DSLR owners today just don't shoot in the harsh conditions in which the D200 would shine. 90% of DSLR owners today are hobby shooters, who need megapixels and FPS but not necessarily longevity. Of course, I do think that now we'll see quite a few people come out of the bulwarks who have been pining away for affordable durability.
Having said that, I'll definitely own the D200 some day. It's just a matter of how much photography business I can drum up, and how much junk I can Ebay. ;-)
I agree that the lack of weather sealing on the 5D, seems to be a big mistake. And I'm sure rutt will agree, given his experience with his 5D in the rain. Weather sealing could not have cost that much more to include in the 5D - could it??
Taking our very sophisticated computers and scanners (DSLRs) into inclement weather without good sealing seems lees than a good idea.....Nikon is defintely right about this. Whether they are correct about no full frame version, I am not so sure. Time will tell.
It doesn't appear to be completely weather sealed from DPR's preview which said
"Just as with the D2X there are numerous rubber gasket seals around body seams, controls and compartment doors. Nikon don't claim the camera to be waterproof but it's certainly more 'weather proof' than the average digital SLR. Remember that the camera is only as weather proof as its weakest link, this is includes the lens mount and only a few of the more recent Nikkor lenses have rubber seals around the mount ring.".
Harry
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
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Matthew SavilleRegistered Users, Retired ModPosts: 3,352Major grins
I agree that the lack of weather sealing on the 5D, seems to be a big mistake. And I'm sure rutt will agree, given his experience with his 5D in the rain. Weather sealing could not have cost that much more to include in the 5D - could it??
Taking our very sophisticated computers and scanners (DSLRs) into inclement weather without good sealing seems lees than a good idea.....Nikon is defintely right about this. Whether they are correct about no full frame version, I am not so sure. Time will tell.
But then I shoot white lenses, so what do I know
White lens shooters sure know sharp glass when they see it, that's for sure. You just don't have enough left-handers on your body design team for me to prefer Canon, that's all. ;-)
Yes, the D200 has weather sealing, along with a mag-alloy body (and pro strap eyelets, woohoo!) It also has the pro-series menu and control dials, meaning: No "user friendly (landscape, portrait) shooting modes"; a lock on the shooting mode dial, with variable FPS etc; PSAM is no longer on the mode dial like it is on the D70, it is now on the top LCD in a the manner that the F100 and F5 have... In general, to put it bluntly, any who upgrade to the D200 from he D70 as their first SLR will be sorely missing the friendliness of the D70's controls. The D200 is definitely a "beast" to be reckoned with, and will tolerate no fooling around. Kinda like the D2X. High quality, but you certainly have to know what you're doing...
White lens shooters sure know sharp glass when they see it, that's for sure. You just don't have enough left-handers on your body design team for me to prefer Canon, that's all. ;-)
Yes, the D200 has weather sealing, along with a mag-alloy body (and pro strap eyelets, woohoo!) It also has the pro-series menu and control dials, meaning: No "user friendly (landscape, portrait) shooting modes"; a lock on the shooting mode dial, with variable FPS etc; PSAM is no longer on the mode dial like it is on the D70, it is now on the top LCD in a the manner that the F100 and F5 have... In general, to put it bluntly, any who upgrade to the D200 from he D70 as their first SLR will be sorely missing the friendliness of the D70's controls. The D200 is definitely a "beast" to be reckoned with, and will tolerate no fooling around. Kinda like the D2X. High quality, but you certainly have to know what you're doing...
-Matt-
[edit]Oh, and AI lens compatibility! Woohoo!!!
Yeah, but.... One of the best ways to improve your images with a 20D or a 10D or a D70, is to ignore landscape, portrait, sports knobs et al and learn to shoot in Tv, Av or manual in RAW. Right??
I agree that the lack of weather sealing on the 5D, seems to be a big mistake. And I'm sure rutt will agree, given his experience with his 5D in the rain.
I really think the problem was one of missing neurons not missing weather sealing in that particular case. I mean, I had a weather proof bag with me and even some plastic bags. I suppose that's why they make pro cameras, though, so you can go take pictures of a war or a rugby game in the rain and not think too hard about it. Of course if you are a real pro, the camera belongs to newspaper or magazine and if it breaks it gets fixed while you use a spare.
If not now, when?
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Matthew SavilleRegistered Users, Retired ModPosts: 3,352Major grins
Yeah, but.... One of the best ways to improve your images with a 20D or a 10D or a D70, is to ignore landscape, portrait, sports knobs et al and learn to shoot in Tv, Av or manual in RAW. Right??
Definitely. I think, out of the nearly 50,000 photos I've taken with my D70, I could count the number of photos taken with those landscape, portrait etc. settings on my fingers. And at the moment I can't even remember the instances in which I did use those settings. But that is because I started SLR photography with a fully manual film camera, so knowledge of apeture and shutter speed were mandatory before you could start clicking. (unlike most digital cameras)
The 20D and 10D have taken some great pictures for me; I've checked them out from the school photo department quite a few times. Definitely fine cameras, but I dunno if I'd go rock climbing or mountain biking with them on a regular basis. I have a habit of wearing out equipment that isn't super-duty within 1 year of purchasing it. All non-pro lenses I've owned have become paperweights within a year. My D70 gave me a $271 one-year "anneversary" present from Nikon Service, if you catch my drift.
Canon response???
Being new to the dslr world, I haven't seen many of these 'new releases', or more specifically, how the competition responds. So my question is this: Might we see a price drop in the Canon 20D in the near future to make it more attractive to people undecided between the 20D and the D200?? Also, does the release of the D200 mean that we can expect a Canon upgrade (like the D70 --> D70s) or replacement for the 20D in the near future?? Kevin.
Being new to the dslr world, I haven't seen many of these 'new releases', or more specifically, how the competition responds. So my question is this: Might we see a price drop in the Canon 20D in the near future to make it more attractive to people undecided between the 20D and the D200?? Also, does the release of the D200 mean that we can expect a Canon upgrade (like the D70 --> D70s) or replacement for the 20D in the near future?? Kevin.
Hi Kevin,
Canon normally has something new around the corner. Nikon has a much slower upgrade path. Nikon will have released with the D200 5 new models in the last year. I would not expect anything new from then for at least another year now, probably longer.
Its possible that Canon may drop the price on the 20D but I wouldn't bet on it because the D200 will be selling for around $400-$500 more than the current 20D price.
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
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Matthew SavilleRegistered Users, Retired ModPosts: 3,352Major grins
Being new to the dslr world, I haven't seen many of these 'new releases', or more specifically, how the competition responds. So my question is this: Might we see a price drop in the Canon 20D in the near future to make it more attractive to people undecided between the 20D and the D200?? Also, does the release of the D200 mean that we can expect a Canon upgrade (like the D70 --> D70s) or replacement for the 20D in the near future?? Kevin.
Kevin, do you mean that you're interested in getting a 20D? If so, then definitely wait 2-4 months for Canon to announce the 20D's replacement, which people are beginning to assume will be at PMA 2006 which is, like I said, in just a few months.
However, my tactic would probably be NOT to jump on a new camera bandwagon when you're brand new to the DSLR world. (unless of course you've been shooting film SLR's for years) My tactic would be to wait for the "30D", and then buy a 20D, at a ridiculously low price! My bet is that, once the 30D is announced and especially when it's released and the praise starts pouring in, (probably) ...the price of a used 20D will be eye-popping. We're talking $700-800, I bet.
If you don't want to wait, used 20D's are already going for just under $1000 used, if you're very very watchful.
Comments
I have never owned a Nikon, but this release will certainly stop my 20D order until I can compare them in more detail.
Ted Szukalski - Gallery of Digital Photography
Vote for me on Cool Photoblogs
I like just about everything with this camera...except the viewfinder. I guess I'll have to see it in person first. Wish it was like the D2H.
Thanks,
Lee
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
I think it is about time Canon released the 30D.
I am simply happy to see that there is competition between Nikon and Canon, we need a few more to raise the bar.
http://www.nikon-image.com/jpn/products/camera/digital/slr/d200/sample.htm
Harry, put the grip on it and it looks almost just like the D2X! I wanted the D2X too but this is VERY tempting.
I'm anxiously awaiting the reviews on the D200. If the focusing is fast an accurate and if the noise levels at ISO 620-800 are good I will be sold.
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Have you seen any high ISO shots? At this point my main concern would be the image quality around ISO 800.
Thanks,
Lee
It should be interesting to see how the CAM 1000 focusing system in the D200 compares to the CAM 2000 sytem found in the D2X. I have the D2X and I'm impressed with how much faster and more accurate the focus tracking is when compared with my D70 which has the CAM 900.
I suspect you would prefer the D2X with your type of shooting.
mitch
http://clearwaterphotography.smugmug.com/
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
The focusing is the other main issue for me. I had no problems with the D100 but when I got the D2h its focusing speed and accuracy knocked my socks off. So far the initial reports on the D200's focusing are very encouraging.
I would definitely prefer the D2X but I'm still an amateur and I have to ask if the D2X is worth the additional $3K for what I do. That $3K could buy me the ultra wide and high quality mid-zooms that I want to fill in my glass collection. I'm also hankering for a 300mm for flight shots. Ah, there's so much that I want and so little $ to buy it with. :cry
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Nikon has proven that (opposite of Canon's current tactic) there is INDEED a market for well rounded, well built cameras that will last longer than merely "until the next version is released"... Nikon's message is that some photographers don't want a camera that lets some specs suffer just to be able to afford a few stellar specs.
I mean, 10.2 megapixels for $1,700? Out of context, that's a camera almost nobody would buy... (Think about it- the 20D replacement will beat 10.2 MP at hundreds less, that's very likely!) ...So then, why is everybody (yes, even my Canon friends) saying that the D200 is a great camera at an incredible price? It's the pro mag-alloy body, the weather sealing, the awesome viewfinder, and the plethora of pro-level features that make the camera such a gem.
In my opinion, Nikon's proved that it's not about "competing" with another company's lineup. The D200 is nothing like the 20D, and nothing like the 5D. Sure, people are having to decide "between" them, but the D200 is very far separated in that it will be the only choice for shooters who need what the D200 offers.
Admittedly, I think the market right now is indeed leaning in favor of the 20D and the 5D, of course. 90% or more of DSLR owners today just don't shoot in the harsh conditions in which the D200 would shine. 90% of DSLR owners today are hobby shooters, who need megapixels and FPS but not necessarily longevity. Of course, I do think that now we'll see quite a few people come out of the bulwarks who have been pining away for affordable durability.
Having said that, I'll definitely own the D200 some day. It's just a matter of how much photography business I can drum up, and how much junk I can Ebay. ;-)
Take care all,
-Matt-
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
Taking our very sophisticated computers and scanners (DSLRs) into inclement weather without good sealing seems lees than a good idea.....Nikon is defintely right about this. Whether they are correct about no full frame version, I am not so sure. Time will tell.
But then I shoot white lenses, so what do I know
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
"Just as with the D2X there are numerous rubber gasket seals around body seams, controls and compartment doors. Nikon don't claim the camera to be waterproof but it's certainly more 'weather proof' than the average digital SLR. Remember that the camera is only as weather proof as its weakest link, this is includes the lens mount and only a few of the more recent Nikkor lenses have rubber seals around the mount ring.".
Harry
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Yes, the D200 has weather sealing, along with a mag-alloy body (and pro strap eyelets, woohoo!) It also has the pro-series menu and control dials, meaning: No "user friendly (landscape, portrait) shooting modes"; a lock on the shooting mode dial, with variable FPS etc; PSAM is no longer on the mode dial like it is on the D70, it is now on the top LCD in a the manner that the F100 and F5 have... In general, to put it bluntly, any who upgrade to the D200 from he D70 as their first SLR will be sorely missing the friendliness of the D70's controls. The D200 is definitely a "beast" to be reckoned with, and will tolerate no fooling around. Kinda like the D2X. High quality, but you certainly have to know what you're doing...
-Matt-
[edit]Oh, and AI lens compatibility! Woohoo!!!
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
Yeah, but.... One of the best ways to improve your images with a 20D or a 10D or a D70, is to ignore landscape, portrait, sports knobs et al and learn to shoot in Tv, Av or manual in RAW. Right??
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
I really think the problem was one of missing neurons not missing weather sealing in that particular case. I mean, I had a weather proof bag with me and even some plastic bags. I suppose that's why they make pro cameras, though, so you can go take pictures of a war or a rugby game in the rain and not think too hard about it. Of course if you are a real pro, the camera belongs to newspaper or magazine and if it breaks it gets fixed while you use a spare.
The 20D and 10D have taken some great pictures for me; I've checked them out from the school photo department quite a few times. Definitely fine cameras, but I dunno if I'd go rock climbing or mountain biking with them on a regular basis. I have a habit of wearing out equipment that isn't super-duty within 1 year of purchasing it. All non-pro lenses I've owned have become paperweights within a year. My D70 gave me a $271 one-year "anneversary" present from Nikon Service, if you catch my drift.
-Matt-
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
Being new to the dslr world, I haven't seen many of these 'new releases', or more specifically, how the competition responds. So my question is this: Might we see a price drop in the Canon 20D in the near future to make it more attractive to people undecided between the 20D and the D200?? Also, does the release of the D200 mean that we can expect a Canon upgrade (like the D70 --> D70s) or replacement for the 20D in the near future?? Kevin.
Canon normally has something new around the corner. Nikon has a much slower upgrade path. Nikon will have released with the D200 5 new models in the last year. I would not expect anything new from then for at least another year now, probably longer.
Its possible that Canon may drop the price on the 20D but I wouldn't bet on it because the D200 will be selling for around $400-$500 more than the current 20D price.
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
However, my tactic would probably be NOT to jump on a new camera bandwagon when you're brand new to the DSLR world. (unless of course you've been shooting film SLR's for years) My tactic would be to wait for the "30D", and then buy a 20D, at a ridiculously low price! My bet is that, once the 30D is announced and especially when it's released and the praise starts pouring in, (probably) ...the price of a used 20D will be eye-popping. We're talking $700-800, I bet.
If you don't want to wait, used 20D's are already going for just under $1000 used, if you're very very watchful.
Good luck!
-Matt-
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum