What Andy's Street Shot Tips has led to.
PossumCorner
Registered Users Posts: 290 Major grins
Today I was trying to shoot grebes at the new small wetlands in a park. No luck, just some ducks were kind enough to come in range. So along came some cyclists, and stopped to rest on a park bench. End of ducks' confidence, ducks gone. So I thought, gotta get out of the comfort zone, used the "can I take a picture" line and they said yes, we were going to ask if you could take one of us. Portrait is not my subject: didn't have a clue, choked, left the tripod down by the lake. Quickly took some very less-than-snapshot images, and gave them some cards from my pocket that looked like my lunch had been wrapped in them (it was actually a few grains of dog treats).
Here's my problem, some advice would be so good. I've never thought about "releases" as the dogs don't care. So I said to the girls "Would it be okay if I put these on a website, I live miles away, it's the only way you'd see them: then you can ring or email me if you're interested". They said sure that's great thank you. They hopped on their bikes and rode off (probably the only half okay shot - landscape with cyclists). There are only a few images, I uploaded them because I told them that I would, - no PP.
I should have waited for someone walking their dog for my first try at street (or parkland) photography, but the ducks had followed the grebes and there wasn't a dog in sight.
Here's my problem, some advice would be so good. I've never thought about "releases" as the dogs don't care. So I said to the girls "Would it be okay if I put these on a website, I live miles away, it's the only way you'd see them: then you can ring or email me if you're interested". They said sure that's great thank you. They hopped on their bikes and rode off (probably the only half okay shot - landscape with cyclists). There are only a few images, I uploaded them because I told them that I would, - no PP.
I should have waited for someone walking their dog for my first try at street (or parkland) photography, but the ducks had followed the grebes and there wasn't a dog in sight.
Possum Corner
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Do you intend to use these pics commercially? IOW, do you intend to make $ with them? If the answer is no, you shouldn't have to worry about a Model Release. If the answer is yes, you are right in thinking you should have had them sign an MR.
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Steve
Comfort Zones
So now that you have approached these young ladies and asked them if you could take their photo, would you do it again ??
I've only ever asked one lady who was pushing a pram and was walking with a big dog, but I was so shocked that she said "yes" I stuff the pictures up
Good for you for making the move...... Skippy (Australia)
Skippy (Australia) - Moderator of "HOLY MACRO" and "OTHER COOL SHOTS"
ALBUM http://ozzieskip.smugmug.com/
:skippy Everyone has the right to be stupid, but some people just abuse the privilege :dgrin
and you weren't shooting for commercial purposes so Be The Photographer and shoot shoot shoot. Takke ~30 quick snaps before thay get bored and work your way around the subject---give yourself a chance to succeed and then crop crop crop unless the background is of particular interest.
.................Mereimage
Steve thank you for that reminder - so yes I went back and read all those threads, I had skimmed through them before but felt it was not an issue that affected me and just didn't really take it on board before I took these shots. I would not have even thought to take them at the time, but Andy's street photography tips from his recent thread in Earth Shakes/Hall of Wisdom had given me a push. And on re-reading that thread I also realise I'm not the only one who has choked up on taking the shots once the invitation was there. It's a miracle I asked their permission to post the shots, let alone got something signed. But it's a good lesson so I won't be caught out again - bit of preparation next time.
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Hi Skippy, yes I would do it again, this has helped the confidence level I hope even if I did go into it unprepared. In retrospect, a lady pushing a pram would be a much more practical first attempt. And it's the little things you notice afterwards that have the "oops" factor - there they are sailing along on their bikes flouting the law - no safety helmets!! Don't know about USA but here in Melbourne to ride without one carries a fine.
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On the birders that I "shot" enough time had gone by, and they were absorbed in their own endeavors that I would have to say they were natural, but most of the time asking permission has totally destroyed the mood I wanted in the first place.
I don't know how to change that...........??
And to ask for releases, huh! I am totally freaked by the idea. I think I would rather clean a sensor in my camera.
ginger (I would like to put the birders on the front of my calendar, but then I could not offer it for sale, but no way would I ask for releases, and if I don't get them at the time, I never see some of the people again.)
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Yes Ginger I really looked at your "birders" shots, they are so purely concentrating, just one fellow slightly checking your presence but not locking onto it. If you had said to them "just keep doing it, look natural, relax" they would have gone into tense-mode and the whole image would have been lost.
I think I have to pursue the release thing though, all the dogs I photograph have handlers/owners and sooner or later one of them is going to have an "attitude" that would indicate that either I should obtain permission or not even think about using that image of them/their dog. It hasn't come up yet, but I will get organised and do just a little "street and park" people photography including releases just for the practice. Then if I need to do it with my regular stuff I can do it only 50% awkwardly, not 100 percent. Can't imagine ever feeling comfortable with it (or with sensor cleaning).
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Look, you aren't going to run into any trouble with them. They invited you to shoot.
Anyway, here is what I do in most situations like this. I give them my card which has email and cell phone. I put the shots in a private smugmug gallery. And I give them access if they contact me. So I haven't published their images at all without permission.
It's a fine line. Do you need a model release for photojournalism? People at a political demonstration or sports figures? What about musicians at a public concert? Or faces in a big crowd. Andy has had a couple of *great* wide angle shots make KPotD. Did he get model releases from every recognizable face in the Yankee Stadium shot? Or the people in Grand Central?
Most of the time, good intentions and good manners are really the most important things by far. If you have those things you won't have to worry about the law; it will never be an issue.
Of course, I can't give you that advice without personal liability. So, I'll be sending you a form to sign which states that you recognize that my advice was strictly unprofessional, that I am a known loose canon and dispenser of stupid and dangerous advice, and that you hold me personally harmless for your misdeeds re people photography in public.
Rutt thanks, that does all make great good sense and gives a bit of balance to my wooly thinking.
(Also your form is considered received and returned signed herewith, copy retained, copyright acknowledged but not necessarily observed: useful form).
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I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on Dgrin so you should always consult with your attorney and not me, etc etc blahdeblah.
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Can't agree Mule, if it comes to someone getting legalistic about their image being used, the media have unlimited resources to defend their own staff, or the independent pappa..... might have insurance against that possibility. We're not going to risk losing our house and cars over a legal issue. It's often the "law-abiding citizens" who come off worst because they are the least prepared if "things" get out of hand.
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hey Possum (we're down to calling each other mammal names - cool!
I wasn't implying that you should just do what you want with these pictures.... rather a way of comparing our pics to those pappis who makes millions off of them. I certainly dont know enough about this but i personally dont think the gossip mags are backed by lawyers who go out and defend every single pictures day after day. There must be a loophole they're using or it may be as simple as "if youre in a public property, its fair game". Again i dont know and didnt mean to imply i did.. you should get advice from a prof.
BTW, i really like the pictures. The first one not only reminds me of Jim Goldberg (one of my fav. photographer) but also a short-story from my freshman English Comp. class.
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