The World Champion

Sventekoz

I was fortunate enough to receive VIP passes to a recent athletics meeting, and that included being allowed to take the camera. This is one of Sally Pearson, the current 100m hurdles world champion and, I hope, the next Olympic champion. Thanks for looking.

johng

John - I do like the processing you did on the image. But as a sports photo, it just doesn't work for me. This is a world champion athlete at a competition and it's a photo of her taking a breather after a race. Also at a sharp downward angle. The processing shows great skill but the shot itself is more of a snapshot from the stands any fan would take.

Sventekoz

You're absolutely right, John. I guess this was more of an attempt at taking a fairly mundane shot and making it more interesting. I didn't have much choice about where I sat, unfortunately, but next year I'll be able to get permission to work the track. I'll post some shots of her in action a little later.

bigblue1ca

I like the shot personally, you appear to have caught her deep in thought, obviously without the PP it wouldn't be as dramatic, but still as a runner myself I like it.

Sventekoz

Thanks bigblue1ca.

As promised, here are some of her in action. Unfortunately, I had to use ISO6400, and my 'best' lens for this was my Sigma 50-500, so please don't compare these to 'pro' shots.

Here are a couple of her in the 100m.





And a couple from the 100m hurdles.





If you're interested in general pictures of the meet, you can see them here: http://sventekoz.smugmug.com/Sports/Go-for-25-Perth-Track-Classic/21430502_RTH9CN

Moving Pictures

Seems like you've got a solid grasp of timing/shutter lag!

Sventekoz

Thanks, Moving Pictures.

johng

I'll repeat the mantra I've said in the past - this site is about PHOTOS. There are no bonus points for level of the athlete. You need to take photos from a lower vantage point and get better subject isolation. If you want to learn how to shoot track and field, start with lower level athletes where you can get closer:


A big part of sports photography is about location. That makes it very difficult to get good sports shots as a fan from the stands.

Sventekoz

johng wrote: »

I'll repeat the mantra I've said in the past - this site is about PHOTOS. There are no bonus points for level of the athlete. You need to take photos from a lower vantage point and get better subject isolation. If you want to learn how to shoot track and field, start with lower level athletes where you can get closer:


A big part of sports photography is about location. That makes it very difficult to get good sports shots as a fan from the stands.

John, I find your response presumptuous and offensive. I had no choice about my vantage point, and I certainly wasn't trying to claim 'bonus points' (as you put it). Yes, this site is about photos. These are mine. Your response, and the way it has been delivered is completely unhelpful. Just because it isn't how 'you' would do it doesn't make it invalid. You told me nothing I didn't already know, and labelled yourself as the worst sort of professional photographer.

johng

I'm sorry you find it offensive. I realize you can't control your seats when you're a fan. But that also means that being stuck in a seat isn't always conducive to making good sports photos. I've gone to a number of professional sporting events as a fan. I realize I can't make very good sports photos because of location and equipment restrictions.

Icebear

OK, Johns: this is going to get possibly confusing.
John, as usual, your critiques and suggestions are spot-on-point.
John, John really does know his s**t and you can learn a lot from him.
John, John didn't really ask for critique. He didn't even say he thought they were good sports photos. He's just an Aussie who's justifiably proud of his countrywoman.
Not every photo posted on this subforum is a candidate for the old DGrin whipping post.
The name of the forum is "Sports" not "Awesome Sports Photography"
John, try to grow a thicker skin.
Now you both think I'm a dick. (If you didn't already)
Love, John

Sventekoz

Icebear (I'd better drop all the Johns!), I don't have an issue at all with my work being critiqued. I've learned more from that process than I ever have in a book or an on-line resource. That isn't what johng did, however. It was simply, and clearly, an attack on someone whose work didn't agree with his view of sporting photography. I never made any claims about my image, but he took the opportunity to make a point, at my expense, about something he's obviously ranted about in the past. I don't doubt his technical ability, but if that's how he gets his message across then I doubt too many people will bother listening to him. Anyway, I think this is best left now. I can't see any positive outcome from it if it goes any further.

johng

I don't have an issue at all with my work being critiqued. I've learned more from that process than I ever have in a book or an on-line resource. That isn't what johng did, however. It was simply, and clearly, an attack on someone whose work didn't agree with his view of sporting photography.

Well, unless you simply want someone to tell you your shots are great, critique often involves the person (me in this case) indicating how something about your shot does not agree with what that person (me again) thinks a good shot should have.

The first shot you posted I suggested what I thought was good about it and also why I didn't think it worked as a sports photo. You seemed OK with that critique. Your feathers got ruffled when I said:

You need to take photos from a lower vantage point and get better subject isolation. If you want to learn how to shoot track and field, start with lower level athletes where you can get closer:

Let's break this into two parts. Part 1: "You need to take photos from a lower vantage point and get better subject isolation" - We could certainly discuss the merits of showing single athlete vs. multiple athletes. Absolutely. As for shooting from lower - does that concept offend you? Would you make the artistic choice to shoot from high up as you did or from track level if you had the choice?

Part 2: "If you want to learn how to shoot track and field, start with lower level athletes where you can get closer:"

Again, I realize and sympathize it's tough to get good shots of premier athletes when you're just a fan. I would love to get great photos of my NFL football team - but it just doesn't happen. So, if I want to shoot football I can either take bad photos from the stands, or shoot lower levels of play where I am not restricted so much in where I can shoot from or what gear I can use. Now, you can certainly have the opinion that you do not want to shoot track and field or even photograph sports. It's perfectly valid to say "hey, I don't shoot sports this was just a once in a lifetime opportunity so I did the best that I could - I'm not looking to learn how to shoot track & field" - and that would be the end of it. My advice wouldn't apply. But, if you (or anyone else) IS wanting to shoot sports - I reiterate my advice: trying to learn and practice shooting sports from the stands is too difficult. You can learn and practice at lower levels of play and you'll make more compelling sports images.

By the way, if it helps you feel any better - I'm a hobbyist, I don't do this for a living. So, I'm not a "pro" "looking down his nose at the common guy" I'm simply passing on my views based on my experiences.

But, let me close with this: if you ARE interested in learning to become a better sports photographer and you wish to do so by seeking critique from other sports shooters, you're going to need much thicker skin. You really are. Suggesting you need to get lower and get better isolation is hardly a personal attack. Suggesting that it's easier to practice and make compelling images at lower levels of amateur competition where you have more freedom to choose position and get close is hardly a rant. If you're this offended by those comments, you're going to have a tough time getting help from experienced sports photographers. Just my opinion. And, you may not care for my opinion but maybe it will help someone else reading this public forum.

Sventekoz

John, I'm going to leave most of what you said, and I won't be responding to this any more. For the record, though, and to point out where my feathers got ruffled, it wasn't with what you quoted. It was with your opening two sentences of:

I'll repeat the mantra I've said in the past - this site is about PHOTOS. There are no bonus points for level of the athlete.

If you think that your follow-up post was in any way a reasonable manner in which to provide a critique then you really need to have a long, hard look at yourself. The tone and thrust of the response were, simply, unacceptable. You can try to dismiss it all as me not having a thick skin (which isn't true), but the fact is that you clearly took this as an opportunity to continue something that you've raised in other threads. Other than that, I have nothing to add beyond my response to Icebear.

johng

OK, I can see why it comes across as harsh. But it's true. A sports photo is not made better simply because of the status of the athlete in it. If I take a photo of a famous actress from too far away as she's exiting her car it isn't a good portrait photo because the subject is famous. So, my point is: the critique of your photo is the same regardless of the subject being an 8 year old girl running her first track meet or the world champion. No difference. The photo is the photo. Again, sorry if you think saying that means I have deep character flaws. I know I have flaws, but if you can't appreciate that concept that the subject's status doesnt matter in critiquing the photo YOU are going to have a tough time improving as a photographer.

jmp2204

I have to laugh at the critique here .Photography like music to me (something ii have 34 years experience with . One may like , one may not. Do people shoot pictures to wow professionals? no does the OP action photos capture the action , feeling and energy of the event? It does for me ! does it tell a story? it does to me better than the single girl jumping a hurdle. Is The OP in the I deal location maybe not but his photos sum up what happened nicely to me.I do get a kick out of not being able to think out of the box in the photgraphy world much like some cannot do in music