First Time HS BB Try With SB800's

OldGuy

I decided to try my luck with 2 PW fired, balcony mounted SB800 units at my high school last night. I had each at the top of the key at both ends about 25-30 ft. up and started out trying to bounce off the ceiling at full power. No luck as the light was dispersed too much in the "erector set"... I then dialed down to 1/8 power and aimed directly at the foul line. I ended up at 1/4 power, shooting at 1/200, ISO 800, f2.8-3.2, autoWB, 70-200, on my D700.

Any C&C would be greatly appreciated. :bow

1. One light position upper right corner, bounced. I found it is not good to shoot toward the lights... :huh


2. 1/8 Power


3. 1/4 Power


4. 1/4 Power


5. 1/4 Power


6. 1/4 Power


Thanks for looking. :wink

JimKarczewski

#1 - That's NOTHING. I did much worse yesterday shooting into my lights, that's barely noticeable compared to some shots. Good example of bad light shooting into them: http://www.jimkarczewski.com/Sporting-Events/HSBasketball11/Lew-Wallace-Roosevelt-021712/i-T9dvF5C/0/M/IMG0009-M.jpg

That being said, I can't even see the light on them. If you were shooting 2 lights on #1, I can't see much of an effect other than the fact that you were shooting into it. Other than that, had I not seen the flash, I would had thought you were shooting natural light.

#2 - under powered. I can't even tell there is a flash again. What was the ambient reading of the light in the gym? How many stops over were your settings with flash vs Ambient????

#3 - Now I can see the flash. At least one of them. Typically if you have them cross court from each other you will see a rim light of sorts, which I don't see? Doesn't mean it's not there, but seems like the light is coming from camera left and that's it.

#4, 5, 6 - Exposure seems good, again I can only really tell there is one light? Or so it looks...

What I mean about a highlight is like this image: http://www.jimkarczewski.com/Sporting-Events/HSBasketball11/Lew-Wallace-Roosevelt-021712/i-CkqLptN/0/M/IMG0008-M.jpg

You can see it's front lit by a strobe, but you can also see a rim light coming from behind him to give separation to the player. I don't see that in your images and if you had 2 lights, I would assume that it would be there...

JimKarczewski

Also, I don't see what you had your zoom on the flash set to? Was it at least 50mm, but <= 80mm? If it was too wide (28, 35, etc) or too long (105) you are either loosing (wide angle) power and dispersing it too far across the court or your beam is so focused into an area (105) that the players have to be in the perfect position or you don't get anything.

Icebear

Even at 1/4 power, you're still getting ghosting. Look at the ball in #4. Why aren't you shooting at 1/250th? That should help just a little bit. These are looking pretty good IMO.

OldGuy

JimKarczewski wrote: »

#1 - That's NOTHING. I did much worse yesterday shooting into my lights, that's barely noticeable compared to some shots. Good example of bad light shooting into them: http://www.jimkarczewski.com/Sporting-Events/HSBasketball11/Lew-Wallace-Roosevelt-021712/i-T9dvF5C/0/M/IMG0009-M.jpg

That being said, I can't even see the light on them. If you were shooting 2 lights on #1, I can't see much of an effect other than the fact that you were shooting into it. Other than that, had I not seen the flash, I would had thought you were shooting natural light.

#2 - under powered. I can't even tell there is a flash again. What was the ambient reading of the light in the gym? How many stops over were your settings with flash vs Ambient????

#3 - Now I can see the flash. At least one of them. Typically if you have them cross court from each other you will see a rim light of sorts, which I don't see? Doesn't mean it's not there, but seems like the light is coming from camera left and that's it.

#4, 5, 6 - Exposure seems good, again I can only really tell there is one light? Or so it looks...

What I mean about a highlight is like this image: http://www.jimkarczewski.com/Sporting-Events/HSBasketball11/Lew-Wallace-Roosevelt-021712/i-CkqLptN/0/M/IMG0008-M.jpg

You can see it's front lit by a strobe, but you can also see a rim light coming from behind him to give separation to the player. I don't see that in your images and if you had 2 lights, I would assume that it would be there...

JimKarczewski wrote: »

Also, I don't see what you had your zoom on the flash set to? Was it at least 50mm, but <= 80mm? If it was too wide (28, 35, etc) or too long (105) you are either loosing (wide angle) power and dispersing it too far across the court or your beam is so focused into an area (105) that the players have to be in the perfect position or you don't get anything.

Thanks Jim for your comments.
I had two lights set up on the same side of the gym but at opposite ends, that is why you don't see any evidence of back lighting.
The zoom was set at 70mm.

Obviously, I have much more practice ahead of me.<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/mwink.gif&quot; border="0" alt="" >

OldGuy

Icebear wrote: »

Even at 1/4 power, you're still getting ghosting. Look at the ball in #4. Why aren't you shooting at 1/250th? That should help just a little bit. These are looking pretty good IMO.

Thanks Icebear.
Good question... I don't remember why I wasn't shooting @ 1/250.

MDalby

I like to have my lights on light stands along the baseline off of the sideline. I tape my stands to the floor. They are very stable. I have had the ball hit them several times and they don't budge at all. What this does its it gets the light into the face. I am assuming you are shooting from the baseline. I generally sit where the three point arch meets the baseline. If you are getting ghosting with your speedlights, you need to get your SS back up to 250 or you need more power in your lights to overpower the ambient. You probably don't want to exceed 1/4 power much due to recycle time. When I used speedlights I would go up to 1/4 +2/3 and that was about the limit for burst shooting.

OldGuy

MDalby wrote: »

I like to have my lights on light stands along the baseline off of the sideline. I tape my stands to the floor. They are very stable. I have had the ball hit them several times and they don't budge at all. What this does its it gets the light into the face. I am assuming you are shooting from the baseline. I generally sit where the three point arch meets the baseline. If you are getting ghosting with your speedlights, you need to get your SS back up to 250 or you need more power in your lights to overpower the ambient. You probably don't want to exceed 1/4 power much due to recycle time. When I used speedlights I would go up to 1/4 +2/3 and that was about the limit for burst shooting.

Thanks for the comments Mark,
How far off the baseline are your lights? If I read your set-up right, my brain says that players chasing the ball ob and cheerleaders, etc. would do serious damage.

How about posting a shot of your set-up?

Thanks,

MDalby

No, I don't have them in range of cheerleaders or players. They are wider than the players/coaches on the sideline. I have a shoot tonight. I will take some shots.

MDalby

I use heavy duty 15' light stands, not the lightweight stands. Duct tape and Gaffer tape are your friend.

JimKarczewski

Goes to show there are several ways to light the same thing. I only light on the baseline if I know the bleachers I normally mount to are going to be packed, which, now that Sectionals are upon us for boys, they will be (sectionals for girls are not busy like the boys!)

OK, these are from 2 different high schools, so each school I go to I try to adapt as I can. Typically though, unless the interior is really bright, I'm always at the same settings in the end, 1/200@3.2 (or 3.5) @ ISO 640.

Setup #1


Setup #2


Setup #3 (lights on side I was shooting were setup the same way as cross court lights, down court to the left was to try, TRY and help the back court but I ended up turning it off because I shot into it too many times.)

OldGuy

MDalby wrote: »

No, I don't have them in range of cheerleaders or players. They are wider than the players/coaches on the sideline. I have a shoot tonight. I will take some shots.

MDalby wrote: »

I use heavy duty 15' light stands, not the lightweight stands. Duct tape and Gaffer tape are your friend.

JimKarczewski wrote: »

Goes to show there are several ways to light the same thing. I only light on the baseline if I know the bleachers I normally mount to are going to be packed, which, now that Sectionals are upon us for boys, they will be (sectionals for girls are not busy like the boys!)

I have some setup shots around here somewhere... when I find them, I'll post them as well. Right now I'm panicking about getting a backboard cam setup for Friday. Testing, testing, TESTING!!!

Thanks guys
I look forward to the set-up shots. Good luck Jim.

JimKarczewski

Images from those setups:

#1


#2


#3

MDalby

Here is my setup and a few shots from last night. I was playing around with my settings some last night. In the end, I settled in at ISO 500, f/4.0 and SS 250

MD








Shot #1


Shot #2


Shot #3


Shot #4


Shot #5


Shot #6


Shot #7



Shot #8
I had to throw in a shot of my son... Yes, we are intense!

Icebear

These are great, Mark. You really have your setup dialed in, and you captured the players wonderfully.

johng

Mark - those are the best I've seen from you yet. Really getting a good balance now - not as many hot spots on the skin! Looking good!

MDalby

Thanks guys. It has definitely been a work in progress. All of you and Jim have really been a lot of help in giving pointers. Jim was the one that first got me using strobes. I think it is really a game of inches. Minor changes in setup, settings and approach can make a marked improvement.

MD