I guess people have the "right" to carry something deliberately provocative,
but anyone who carries that has abandoned common sense. I would not blame
any policeman who sees that device and braces the person with it.
I have little patience for people who deliberately do something to provoke
and then whine about their "rights".
A bit OT, but here's what just came as an "URGENT" request (mass-mail) from Photographers Direct:
Date : 27th February 2012
Deadline : 28th February 2012
Request No.10724
Request Title: WASHINGTON DC, USA - 2
Request:
The United States Teasury Building
The Pentagon
CIA Headquarters
- Colour images ONLY
Format : either landscape (horizontal) or portrait (vertical)
Use : editorial - NO royalty free images
Budget
Other Usage : US$100.00
I mean, for a possible terrorist, why even bother, purchase the gear, learn how to use it and risk being caught in the process if you can simply request all you want for a hundred bucks? ;-)
A bit OT, but here's what just came as an "URGENT" request (mass-mail) from Photographers Direct:
I mean, for a possible terrorist, why even bother, purchase the gear, learn how to use it and risk being caught in the process if you can simply request all you want for a hundred bucks? ;-)
Indeed - and combine that with Google Earth and your good to blow, uh, go.
I have been approached several times by the police for shooting street scenes, and they were always courteous. I am happy to see they are alert and not just eating doughnuts and talking. And I don't have much patience either for those who deliberately provoke the police for no other reason than to get some attention, then try to milk that attention by being outraged that their rights have been violated.
And to the OP: I remember Rockville from 1970--talk about change!!
Today the Utah house passed a bill (60 to 14) that will make taking pictures of cows illegal in certain situations. The police are friendly now, enjoy it. My mentor was a PJ for UPI for many years. He had the opportunity to visit the USSR in the 80s. He was threatened with arrest for taking pictures of the dumbest things, like gas stations and street signs. At the end of the trip, right before they were to leave, all their equipment and exposed film was stolen. His story reminds me that it can always get worse, a lot worse. I'm not in the mood to give the lawmakers an inch today.
I called him up and we talked about this latest Utah law. It was interesting to hear him discuss that trip and all the crazy things they had to deal with. He's an older gentleman now... he's considering taking some pictures of some cows in protest. What a world we live in.
I posted more about the law in "the big picture" forum.
Please feel free to post any reworks you do of my images. Crop, skew, munge, edit, share. Website | Galleries | Utah PJs
What are your rights when you’re approached by police?
Macchioni, who was standing on the Mt. Gretna Road bridge taking pictures when police pulled up around midnight. He recorded his interaction with police and it’s earned more than 18,000 hits on Youtube. But, the decision to record was not popular with officers.
“You cannot video someone’s voice without their permission,” the officer stated.
“But we’re in a public space, you’re performing a public duty,” Macchioni replied back. “I know my rights.”
“No, you don’t know your rights, your rights are you cannot video our voice if we don’t want you to,” commented the officer.
The officer claimed the videotape violated state wire-tapping laws, but Northwest Regional Police Chief Samuel Gatchell admits his officers were misinformed. “When you’re in a public place and the gentleman has a right to be in that location, he has all the right in the world to video and audio record,” stated Northwest Regional Police chief Samuel Gatchell.
Chief Gatchell weighed in on the entire police incident. “I think mistakes were made on both sides,” Gatchell told CBS 21.
Lol, this may be someone here for all I know. I'm just posting it to show, you need to know you're laws, as Ryan stated above.
It's important to know the law and your rights in these situations. Keep in mind that the police have some knowledge of the law in very specific areas, but I doubt they get much training on the law as it regards to recording images and sounds in public places.
That said, you won't settle a legal disagreement like this at the scene, as the cops have guns and the right to do things to you that prevent you from carrying out many actions. However, if/when your actions result in being charged with an offense, it's good to know you're operating within your rights.
My policy is to be discreet and accommodating whenever possible. Just because I have certain rights does not mean I need to be obnoxious about asserting them.
By the way, does anyone really think that, a., any terrorist has an interest in the Montgomery County Courthouse, in Rockville, MD, or b., and any terrorist that does is going to stand out in the open with a tripod taking still photos of it? :ivar
The biggest act of domestic terrorism in this country was committed against a building not too dissimilar to this: The Alfred Murrah Federal Building. I can *easily* imagine some disgruntled person angry at the criminal justice system deciding to take it down with a home-made bomb.
So long as the police are courteous and respectful of the law, I have no problem with these sorts of inquiries.
It's important to know the law and your rights in these situations. Keep in mind that the police have some knowledge of the law in very specific areas, but I doubt they get much training on the law as it regards to recording images and sounds in public places.
That said, you won't settle a legal disagreement like this at the scene, as the cops have guns and the right to do things to you that prevent you from carrying out many actions. However, if/when your actions result in being charged with an offense, it's good to know you're operating within your rights.
My policy is to be discreet and accommodating whenever possible. Just because I have certain rights does not mean I need to be obnoxious about asserting them.
, Finally !
I have shot in numerous places and really never have been bothered.
On the few occasions that an Authority Figure has asked my intentions, I
answer "With The Truth" and they wish me a "Good Day".
My experience has been the same as yours, Benjamin. Here's a true story from two perspectives:
The Photographer's Perspective: Golden Gate Park, one of the most beautiful parks in the world. A plant species is flowering, and I am in the bushes taking pictures of them. A cop comes along and starts peppering me with questions. What I am doing? Why am I here taking pictures? What do I intend to do with the pictures? Am I a professional photographer? The cop is businesslike, but not rude.
Now, I could get indignant or combative and tell him to f* off; that I have every right to be in the park taking pictures and there's not a goddam thing he can do about it. Why is he picking on me when there are countless others in the park taking pictures?
Instead I take a look around.
The Cop's Perspective: There is a middle aged man with a camera hiding in the bushes near a soccer field with dozens of grade school girls playing soccer.
As soon as I realised the source of his concern, I apologised and offered to let him look at my shots. (He declined the offer.) Why did I apologise, despite the fact that I had a legal right to be doing what I was doing? Because I understood his concern, and a parent's concern if they saw me there. I told him I would move someplace else, thanked him for doing his job, and was on my way.
Courtesy, civility, and common sense have gotten me much further in life than asserting my legals rights to the letter in every possible circumstance.
As photographers--especially those of us who do street--frequently find ourselves in unusual places at unusual times. It is a small matter to explain to others what we're doing, independent of whether or not we actually owe an explanation.
Right on, John. You too, Ben. There's no point in making even a rent-a-cop who doesn't know what he's doing angry. You might need the guy's help somewhere down the line. The only time it makes sense to stonewall is when the rent-a-cop decides he wants to take your camera or delete your photographs. Then it's time to whip out something like Bert Krages's little single-page summary of the law, offer it to him politely, and let him read it. If the situation goes beyond that, it's time to get him to call a real cop and hope the real cop knows the law.
Lol, I knew that video would stir something up, I don't agree with the way it was handled at all, ON both sides. The cop makes his living doing what he doing, for legality reasons he should know what lines exist, and saying this or that, only to have his own chief have to square him away on what the law really is, well, maybe more inservice is needed, pleading ignorance is NOT an excuse, because it most certainly won't be an excuse for me or you. My point, as I pointed out, was you, need to know the law, period. Lol, some that jumped to the end of the thread, may want to take time to go back and read some of my comments, you'll realize I'm not a cop basher. I have went toe to toe with people over bashing before and stood by a cop, caught on video doing what some considered to be shady, but I will be the first to condemn one also for doing something illegal or deciding he can just make laws up as he goes.
Oh and Jhefti, if you want to see signed atf/ ems employee/ eye witness sworn testimony showing no way could McVeigh had done this alone, I'll be glad to provide them. I'll even show you pictures of the ryder truck sitting in a bomb section of an Oklahoma NG base several days before. So, don't go there lol. not unless you want to have to face facts, that the Murray bombing wasn't what you were told it was. This forum isn't the venue for this, but since you brought this up, just let me know, I'll be glad to share them with you.
So, don't go there lol. not unless you want to have to face facts, that the Murray bombing wasn't what you were told it was. This forum isn't the venue for this, but since you brought this up, just let me know, I'll be glad to share them with you.
Sorry, I don't think I mentioned anything about Murray bombing...I don't even know Murray...
Comments
Believe it or not, Tony ... AMEN!
"He not busy being born is busy dying." Bob Dylan
"The more ambiguous the photograph is, the better it is..." Leonard Freed
I mean, for a possible terrorist, why even bother, purchase the gear, learn how to use it and risk being caught in the process if you can simply request all you want for a hundred bucks? ;-)
Indeed - and combine that with Google Earth and your good to blow, uh, go.
"He not busy being born is busy dying." Bob Dylan
"The more ambiguous the photograph is, the better it is..." Leonard Freed
Some fear of who is asking might be in the eye of the questioned and further, that an answer is required.
Most certainly this was an overreaction, poor judgement and a waste of taxpayer money; it reduces the Boys in Blue fan club.
BTW the OP bent over backwards to be "nice", good for him.
It gives a whole new meaning to "point and shoot camera".
http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/
And to the OP: I remember Rockville from 1970--talk about change!!
I called him up and we talked about this latest Utah law. It was interesting to hear him discuss that trip and all the crazy things they had to deal with. He's an older gentleman now... he's considering taking some pictures of some cows in protest. What a world we live in.
I posted more about the law in "the big picture" forum.
Website | Galleries | Utah PJs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG6bSCcg_cw&feature=player_embedded
What are your rights when you’re approached by police?
Macchioni, who was standing on the Mt. Gretna Road bridge taking pictures when police pulled up around midnight. He recorded his interaction with police and it’s earned more than 18,000 hits on Youtube. But, the decision to record was not popular with officers.
“You cannot video someone’s voice without their permission,” the officer stated.
“But we’re in a public space, you’re performing a public duty,” Macchioni replied back. “I know my rights.”
“No, you don’t know your rights, your rights are you cannot video our voice if we don’t want you to,” commented the officer.
The officer claimed the videotape violated state wire-tapping laws, but Northwest Regional Police Chief Samuel Gatchell admits his officers were misinformed.
“When you’re in a public place and the gentleman has a right to be in that location, he has all the right in the world to video and audio record,” stated Northwest Regional Police chief Samuel Gatchell.
Chief Gatchell weighed in on the entire police incident. “I think mistakes were made on both sides,” Gatchell told CBS 21.
http://www.whptv.com/news/local/story/Video-of-man-and-police-arguing-over-his-rights/J5Al7TTUOkiZBjVdXEY79Q.cspx
Lol, this may be someone here for all I know. I'm just posting it to show, you need to know you're laws, as Ryan stated above.
It's important to know the law and your rights in these situations. Keep in mind that the police have some knowledge of the law in very specific areas, but I doubt they get much training on the law as it regards to recording images and sounds in public places.
That said, you won't settle a legal disagreement like this at the scene, as the cops have guns and the right to do things to you that prevent you from carrying out many actions. However, if/when your actions result in being charged with an offense, it's good to know you're operating within your rights.
My policy is to be discreet and accommodating whenever possible. Just because I have certain rights does not mean I need to be obnoxious about asserting them.
The biggest act of domestic terrorism in this country was committed against a building not too dissimilar to this: The Alfred Murrah Federal Building. I can *easily* imagine some disgruntled person angry at the criminal justice system deciding to take it down with a home-made bomb.
So long as the police are courteous and respectful of the law, I have no problem with these sorts of inquiries.
I have shot in numerous places and really never have been bothered.
On the few occasions that an Authority Figure has asked my intentions, I
answer "With The Truth" and they wish me a "Good Day".
That's my policy "The Truth".
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The Photographer's Perspective: Golden Gate Park, one of the most beautiful parks in the world. A plant species is flowering, and I am in the bushes taking pictures of them. A cop comes along and starts peppering me with questions. What I am doing? Why am I here taking pictures? What do I intend to do with the pictures? Am I a professional photographer? The cop is businesslike, but not rude.
Now, I could get indignant or combative and tell him to f* off; that I have every right to be in the park taking pictures and there's not a goddam thing he can do about it. Why is he picking on me when there are countless others in the park taking pictures?
Instead I take a look around.
The Cop's Perspective: There is a middle aged man with a camera hiding in the bushes near a soccer field with dozens of grade school girls playing soccer.
As soon as I realised the source of his concern, I apologised and offered to let him look at my shots. (He declined the offer.) Why did I apologise, despite the fact that I had a legal right to be doing what I was doing? Because I understood his concern, and a parent's concern if they saw me there. I told him I would move someplace else, thanked him for doing his job, and was on my way.
Courtesy, civility, and common sense have gotten me much further in life than asserting my legals rights to the letter in every possible circumstance.
As photographers--especially those of us who do street--frequently find ourselves in unusual places at unusual times. It is a small matter to explain to others what we're doing, independent of whether or not we actually owe an explanation.
www.FineArtSnaps.com
Oh and Jhefti, if you want to see signed atf/ ems employee/ eye witness sworn testimony showing no way could McVeigh had done this alone, I'll be glad to provide them. I'll even show you pictures of the ryder truck sitting in a bomb section of an Oklahoma NG base several days before. So, don't go there lol. not unless you want to have to face facts, that the Murray bombing wasn't what you were told it was. This forum isn't the venue for this, but since you brought this up, just let me know, I'll be glad to share them with you.
Sorry, I don't think I mentioned anything about Murray bombing...I don't even know Murray...