What should my answer be???

Mike Lane

Well so I got this email today:

Hi
My name is Wendy, I am a designer currently working for an author "Steve Wallace"to design a business and cultural textbook for universities students. I found some of your pictures very beautiful, interesting and is suitable as an important image source for some subject discuss inside.. I am wondering if you are interested to let us publish your work with photo acknowledgement in inside cover. It would be a great opportunity for more exposure too, as this book will be targetting in the US and Asia Market. We can also discuss royalty fees, if that is what you prefer.

Do let me know what you think, and I can let you know more information
about the book and also let you speak to the author.
Many thanks.

best regards
Wendy.

I'm thinking I should be asking her some questions but I'm not sure what exactly. How would you pros out there handle this type of thing?

gus

Hell mate ...what a pearler ! Just say yes & tell her to get back to you, we'll worry about it then mate

bwg

i would ask for more information on the content of the book, just to make sure it's not something personally objectionable to you. I would also ask how your photos would be used (whole, cropped, stick figures drawn over them etc...)

that's really awesome though.

Mike Lane wrote:

Well so I got this email today:


I'm thinking I should be asking her some questions but I'm not sure what exactly. How would you pros out there handle this type of thing?

Techman1

Mike,

I would make sure you create a contract specifying that the use of your photographs is for the book only and that you maintain all copyrights. I would also make sure you have the right to review prior to final publishing AND that you have the right to recommend changes associated with the use of your photos. Note: recommend at least makes them aware of any concerns you have, this won't give you the right to change them, but maybe they will if you plead your case.

Questions I'd ask:
(1) Is that the Inside "FRONT" Cover for your acknowledgement?
(2) Will they include your name, ©2005 and your web address?
(3) Will the photos be modified in any way?
(4) What is their target number of books printed?
(5) If number (4) is 10,000 or more you should seriously consider royalties (at least I would).
(6) How many "free" copies do you get (yourself, friends, family, clients, etc.).

I'm sure there are many more things to ask, but I just woke up and my brain isn't working to full capacity yet.

This sounds like a great opportunity. Good luck in your decision and congratulations!

Fred

Shay Stephens

Anyone doing photography who is in the slightest bit serious should read this post:

http://www.digitalgrin.com/showthread.php?t=19381

I made it a sticky so I don't have to continually retype the info.

In the book, it covers some standard pricing scenarios such as the one you are talking about. Under the page talking about Stock prices - editorial - books - educational: Textbooks, it talks about the press run under or over 40k(so ask about that) the size the photo will be printed at (e.g 1/4, 1/2 page) so ask about that too. That will give you a base to start from. Prices range from $225 to $375 for the kind of usage you have mentioned.

From past experience, I have sold photos for school text books for around $250 without much trouble. That includes a credit. I have yet to get them to agree to a copy of the book also. That is more common with magazines and retail books and such.

Make sure you give them a license agreement that also spells out reprint rights and the price of that and where they can send the check. In a year or two you may get a call and another check.

But that is only a guide. You need to decide what to charge for yourself. And you need to get that book. Everybody, get that book.

StevenV

I see people ask this question all time over on dpreview, there seem to be a bunch of publishers that troll around the 'net looking for photographers who are willing to give their work away "for exposure."

Your work's certainly worth more than just "exposure" (but that's just my opinion of course). I'd agree with Shane - the talent, time, skill, effort (and equipment) behind your photos are worth real money.

Mike Lane

You see, this is why I post this stuff on dgrin! Thanks guys!

Mike

Nikolai

Shay, you got me finally:-)

Shay Stephens wrote:

Anyone doing photography who is in the slightest bit serious should read this post:

http://www.digitalgrin.com/showthread.php?t=19381

I made it a sticky so I don't have to continually retype the info.
...
Everybody, get that book.

I read that post before many times, but some recent events made me think I actually AM serious about this whole photo-biz...
So - this book along with another one (business and legal forms for photographers) is ordered from Amazon:-)

By the way: I now have not one, but two-light setup (555EXs + PW+s), proper backdrop support (dynatran from amvona) - and a Seconic FlashMate L-308S light meter :-)

Thank you for all you guidance!

Cheers!

Mike Lane

So I decided to head on over to my local barnes and borders to pick up that book and I got another one called "Business and Legal forms for Photographers". That last one even has a bunch of forms on a CD. Super.

So I stopped and had some corporate coffee and read a few of the chapters. I learned a bunch and many of my personal myths were dispelled. I deserve to earn from my photography even though I'm not an Andy Williams or a Shay Stephens. My photography will obviously satisfy a need, so if they are worth doing business with, they will be willing to compensate for the value of that photography. Eh... and so on.

I'm a little worried that they aren't legit, so I'll get back to everyone in this forum with information to let you know either way. It's not inconcevable that other smugmuggers and/or dgrinners could have a run in with whomever this is specifically. If they're not legit, that fact will be important for everyone to know.

Mike Lane

And here is my response. What do you think so far?

Hello Wendy,

Thank you so much for inquiring about my photography work. I've got a few questions about your project before I am willing to commit a photo or photos to it. I should mention first that I fully recognize the importance of exposure; however, given the expense of running a photography business and the overhead of doing so, we will have to work out a royalty deal for use of my photos. The questions I have will help me best determine how my photos will be used so I can most accurately quote you a price for them.

Can you give me the name of the company that you work for or the name of the publisher?
Do you have examples of other textbooks that Mr. Wallace has written? It would be most helpful to have a list of ISBN's if possible.
What is the publication title of the textbook you are currently working on and what is the subject of that book?
In what capacity would my photographs be used? Meaning, will the photos be used as illustrations, pieces for advertising, or for design (e.g. chapter openers)?
What size will you be using for my photos? Will they be 1/4 page, 1/2 page, full page? Will they span two pages? Will they be cover artwork and if so will that artwork wrap around the cover or will it be on only one side or the other?
What is the expected distribution of the textbook?
In what languages will the textbook be printed?
What are the rights that you will expect to have from these photos?
Will there be any associated digital copies of the textbook that will contain my photos?
Will there be any other materials including but not limited to CD/DVD covers, Instructor's Manuals, study guides? If so what is the expected distribution for those materials?
Will you be willing to provide a credit for my work? If so, where would that credit be in the book (i.e. front page, inside cover, flap, back page, index, etc?)
Will you be willing to provide me with tearsheets for my portfolio?
Will you be able to provide me of a copy of the textbook?

I look forward to hearing back from you. Thank you so much for your email and consideration of my work. I am looking forward to helping you with your project.

Thank you,
Michael R. Lane
http://photos.mikelanestudios.com/

Thanks for all the help with this guys. This is obviously my first time dealing with something like this.

flyingpylon

I want to make a comment about threads like this in general, with the caveat that I do not make my living from photography so I have a different perspective than someone who does.

By all means do some research, but in the end, do what makes you and the client happy. That may or may not be the same as what someone else says should make you happy.

If your goal is to extract every possible dime from the sale of your work then achieving happiness will obviously require a different approach than if your goal is to have your work seen and appreciated.

Maybe along with all of the recommendations for books like "Pricing Photography" there should be some for "Sharing Photography - How to Use That Warm Fuzzy Feeling to Pay the Utility Bills".

Not sure what's gotten into me this morning. I just see so many people spend so much time worrying about every little detail to make sure they don't get "screwed" and sometimes I wonder about whether it's really all worth it.

Now if you'll pardon me I'd like to go teach the world to sing, in perfect harmony...

Mike Lane

flyingpylon wrote:

I want to make a comment about threads like this in general, with the caveat that I do not make my living from photography so I have a different perspective than someone who does.

By all means do some research, but in the end, do what makes you and the client happy. That may or may not be the same as what someone else says should make you happy.

If your goal is to extract every possible dime from the sale of your work then achieving happiness will obviously require a different approach than if your goal is to have your work seen and appreciated.

Maybe along with all of the recommendations for books like "Pricing Photography" there should be some for "Sharing Photography - How to Use That Warm Fuzzy Feeling to Pay the Utility Bills".

Not sure what's gotten into me this morning. I just see so many people spend so much time worrying about every little detail to make sure they don't get "screwed" and sometimes I wonder about whether it's really all worth it.

Now if you'll pardon me I'd like to go teach the world to sing, in perfect harmony...

The Pricing Photography book is really quite interesting. The next time you're in your local book mega store, you should read a few chapters.

I for one (I can't speak for anyone else) am certainly not trying to squeeze every last penny out of unwitting customers or something. Photography is going to be a large part of my business (the other part will be webdesign) in the last half of next year. There is overhead running any business. It is not at all inappropriate at all to be able to make a living - even doing something you love to do.

Anyhow, I'm not saying you should buy that book (necessarily), just take a few minutes to read some of the chapters (they're very short, to the point chapters). Maybe you'll agree, maybe you won't. But hopefully at least you'll see some of where this kind of thing comes from.

Mike Lane

Update...
So it's taken a while but things are looking grand for this. I've been chatting with the girl who is designing the textbook (an English as a Second Language textbook with an emphasis on business for students in Taiwan). I followed Shay's recommendation and got the Pricing Photography book. I replied to them several questions (sorry I haven't re-read the thread to find out how much of this I posted earlier) about how the photos were going to be used and that my intent would be to be compensated for the photos along with a credit in the book (fully expecting not to hear back from them frankly).

I was plesantly surprised to hear back from them. Ultimately I got a letter from the writer of the textbook that answered all of my questions in great detail. They are creating a lively color English book to help undergraduate freshment students get inerested in learning english. They want to use 3 of my pics in their book as in-chapter illustrations. Sweet! I'm now in the process of negotiating a fair price thanks to the help of the pricing photography book.

So my next question is, when I seal the deal, how do I write up a contract for this? Will contracts that I write up have any effect in Taiwan? I also have the Business and legal forms for photographers book which has some information but nothing about how to deal with international contracts as far as I can tell. Surely I'm not the first guy to have to do something like this. Anyone out there have any experience with this at all?

marlinspike

The book is being published in Taiwan? I would hope not...cause then I don't know how you could make the contract have an effect there, since according to the US it's not a country...and China is notorious for not giving a rat's behind about copyrights. You could ask an intellectual property lawyer. Usually first contacts are free.

Yorkie Dad

Your answer
#1 Anyone involved with publishing a decent book would not have used such horrible grammer in a mailer to a prospective client.
#2 If their 'mailer' has not been proofread and edited, what does that say about their publishing process?

Random thoughts in response to your question - Good Luck!

Mike Lane

Yorkie Dad wrote:

#1 Anyone involved with publishing a decent book would not have used such horrible grammer in a mailer to a prospective client.
#2 If their 'mailer' has not been proofread and edited, what does that say about their publishing process?

Random thoughts in response to your question - Good Luck!

Thanks for the input. English is obviously the girl's second language so I'm willing to cut her a break. I can guarantee my Chinese would be far worse than her english.

1pocket

Okay, I got a similar email Monday. This one seems to be from a large education publishing house. The photo they are interested in would be used as the author pic. The release they are asking for is rather broad, though:

Hi Steve,

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. While we're waiting for the program to be entered into our database, can you please provide me with a price for the following rights package?

Distribution: World
Languages: All Translations
Print Qty/End Users: Unlimited
All Media
Term: 10 Years
*Includes multiple/derivative/ancillary use and minor revisions.

Thanks,

There first inquiry was to verify if the photo was indeed mine, which I confirmed.

I'll look for the book someone mentioned below, and also maybe ask the same kind of qty and size of image questions?? I want the sale of course -- i.e., I don't want them deciding they can use something else instead. This is the first email:

Hi Steve,

I work in the Image Permission Department at Pearson. I'm contacting you today to see if you can confirm that the attached image is indeed your image. If it is indeed your image can you please provide me with your address and contact info? We would like to use the image in our Adolescent Literacy program. As soon as the program has been entered into our database I will send you the formal request.

Thanks for your help,

Art Scott

Steve, ask to see their terms of purchase...that should include a contract and also the prices they are willing to pay per photo / size.

1pocket

Sounds like in the $500+/- range? I did speak with a local photog friend of mine who has done author photos and he said that publishing houses generally don't pay much for that particular shot -- sometimes it even falls on the author to provide. Oh well -- I'm still getting the D800

Blaker

This likely is legitimate, but just be aware there are a lot of photo scams out there.
At the very minimum you could be left unable to collect your fees.

How did this person say they found your photos?

Also be aware that most banks will charge very large service fees for cashing foreign checks/money orders etc.

If the person you are dealing with starts saying something about sending you a check directly from the author that includes her fee, and wants you to cash it and then send the remainder back to her, RUN RUN RUN the other way as fast as you can!!

It's just good to be aware of the scams so you can be prepared should something seem not quite right.

Good luck and hope this is the real deal for you!

1pocket

Good advice. I sure hope its legit. The author contacted me a year or so ago with the initial inquiry, and it is a big education publishing outfit. Contract hopefully coming through soon.