Another bad paypal story

PupatorPupator Registered Users Posts: 2,322 Major grins
edited September 18, 2015 in Flea Market
I know there are lots of reasons to stop using Paypal and I have had some problems with them in the past - several years ago.

But since everyone uses them I've stuck with them over the last several years and have been problem-free. I've never had a disputed or reversed transaction and I buy and sell quite regularly using paypal to receive or send funds. I don't use paypal gift and they always get their 2.9% out of me.

Today I got this:
Starting 4/5/2012, money from payments you receive will be placed in a pending balance for up to 21 days. By doing this, we're making sure that there's enough money in your account to cover potential refunds or claims.
Even though you can't access the money right away, please ship orders quickly and communicate with your customers. After 21 days, you can withdraw money from each payment as long as the customer hasn't filed a dispute, chargeback, claim, return, or reversal.

...and...
Why are my payments being held?
We reviewed your account and determined that there's a relatively higher than average risk of future transaction issues (such as claims, or chargebacks, or payment reversals). We understand that it may be inconvenient to have your payments temporarily held but please know that we didn't make this decision lightly.
Before deciding to hold payments, we consider many factors. These factors include account and transaction activity, the rate of customer disputes, the type of business a seller runs, average delivery timeframes, customer satisfaction, performance and history.

Again - I haven't had a problematic transaction in 6-8 years.

Goodbye paypal.

Comments

  • SparkySparky Registered Users Posts: 104 Major grins
    edited March 9, 2012
    What are some other options for accepting payments? I have paypal and only used it several years ago to purchase a few things from eBay. I have only accepted one payment for something recently but am thinking of trying to sell other things. Just wondering what else is out there.
    Kevin
    http://wowmephotos.smugmug.com/
  • NikolaiNikolai Registered Users Posts: 19,035 Major grins
    edited March 9, 2012
    Sorry to hear that...
    So, what payment system are you going to use now?
    "May the f/stop be with you!"
  • ian408ian408 Administrators Posts: 21,934 moderator
    edited March 9, 2012
    I've heard others complain of this same treatment and with few or no go-backs/issues. It seems incredibly unfair to me.
    Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
  • Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited March 9, 2012
    Really sorry to hear this ... did you send this email to them to confirm that it was from them and not some phishing scam or hacker??
    "Genuine Fractals was, is and will always be the best solution for enlarging digital photos." ....Vincent Versace ... ... COPYRIGHT YOUR WORK ONLINE ... ... My Website

  • ThatCanonGuyThatCanonGuy Registered Users Posts: 1,778 Major grins
    edited March 9, 2012
    Andy likes Dwolla.
    http://dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=210634
  • SeymoreSeymore Banned Posts: 1,539 Major grins
    edited March 9, 2012
    Thanks for this heads up!

    I rarely use eBay any more and have not used my PP acct for well over a year. Most of my transactions are cash (local), check (if the buyer will take and ship when it clears) or a USPS MO. The only real assurances anyone has these days are cash and in person... sad to say. You see the product, handle it and turn over cash if you're happy. Most everything else is a crap-shoot, hiding in the anonymity of the WWW.

    Seems trust (in today's biz or buying/selling worlds) is a dying belief and fewer are trustworthy or trusting enough. Guess this is the society we are living in these days. Downhill in some regards and a steep uphill climb in others.
  • cmasoncmason Registered Users Posts: 2,506 Major grins
    edited March 9, 2012
    I have been happy with Amazon Payments. I won't use Paypal at all. I have sold here on DGrin via Amazon Payments. Essentially, you use your Amazon account, the same one you use to buy on Amazon, but instead of buying something on Amazon, you simply send money to another Amazon account. Credit cards work fine. The seller can cash out, getting a check from Amazon, or keeping a credit on Amazon for use buying something.

    https://payments.amazon.com/sdui/sdui/personal/money

    As far as I know there is no ability to dispute a payment, but there isn't anywhere else either, and IMHO, the dispute aspect of Paypal is the biggest area of abuse and trouble.

    Oh and no cost to use it either.
    Photos
  • NikolaiNikolai Registered Users Posts: 19,035 Major grins
    edited March 9, 2012
    cmason wrote: »
    I have been happy with Amazon Payments. I won't use Paypal at all. I have sold here on DGrin via Amazon Payments. Essentially, you use your Amazon account, the same one you use to buy on Amazon, but instead of buying something on Amazon, you simply send money to another Amazon account. Credit cards work fine. The seller can cash out, getting a check from Amazon, or keeping a credit on Amazon for use buying something.

    https://payments.amazon.com/sdui/sdui/personal/money

    As far as I know there is no ability to dispute a payment, but there isn't anywhere else either, and IMHO, the dispute aspect of Paypal is the biggest area of abuse and trouble.

    Oh and no cost to use it either.
    Great info, thanks!
    "May the f/stop be with you!"
  • OverfocusedOverfocused Registered Users Posts: 1,068 Major grins
    edited March 9, 2012
    I'd gladly use Amazon or Dwolla over PP for selling online (if applicable anyway). Good to see other systems are taking some business from PP.
    www.overfocused.com
  • LornceLornce Registered Users Posts: 129 Major grins
    edited March 9, 2012
    Recently attempted to "verify" a paypal account by linking it to my US savings account. Wanted the paypal account primarily for buying items in the US, so this made sense to me to avoid paying the banks exorbitent exchange fees. Wrong. If you're a Canadian you can't verify your paypal account with an account that's in US funds - even if the US account is with a Canadian bank.

    Paypal is already gouging customers by providing what are essentially extremely low risk short term loans for 3% (or whatever it is they charge). If that isn't bad enough I'd have to tack on an additional 3% to every purchase to cover the exchange between Cdn and US currency.

    No thanks.
  • PupatorPupator Registered Users Posts: 2,322 Major grins
    edited March 10, 2012
    Amazon payments, dwolla, square, money order, check - there are plenty of ways to do business other than Paypal. Unfortunately, it seems to be swimming against the tide when it comes to buying and selling online.
  • Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited March 10, 2012
    I do think it is quite unfortunate that PP is the only choice for ebay....but that is how they make money ...
    "Genuine Fractals was, is and will always be the best solution for enlarging digital photos." ....Vincent Versace ... ... COPYRIGHT YOUR WORK ONLINE ... ... My Website

  • jfslater98jfslater98 Registered Users Posts: 9 Beginner grinner
    edited March 14, 2012
    Art Scott wrote: »
    I do think it is quite unfortunate that PP is the only choice for ebay....but that is how they make money ...

    I believe ebay owns paypal, so this is not too surprising. No problems for me with them yet, but I've been reading lots of bad stories. Like how they eat kittens and smash violins.

    One of those statements is probably a lie. Click here to see which one.

    Next order of business is to look into that dwolla business.
  • AndyAndy Registered Users Posts: 50,016 Major grins
    edited March 14, 2012
    ThatCanonGuy wrote: »
    Andy likes Dwolla.
    http://dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=210634

    Dwolla is awesome. But then again, I've not had one single issue with Paypal in 9 years. I also use and love Square and Google Checkout.
    Andy

    Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
  • divamumdivamum Registered Users Posts: 9,021 Major grins
    edited March 14, 2012
    I know some have had issues, but I have to put in a good word for my own experience with PP: the one and only bad eBay transaction I've had (not camera gear - it was actually for a sink faucet during our remodel) PP stepped up to the plate and refunded every cent as soon as they heard of the circumstances; I didn't even have to wait the usual period to get the money returned to me. FWIW.
    facebook | photo site |
  • cbbrcbbr Registered Users Posts: 755 Major grins
    edited March 14, 2012
    I have never had a problem with PP, but I do like Google checkout too.
    Chad - www.brberrys.com
    If I post it, please tell me how to make it better. My fragile ego can take it.
  • Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited March 14, 2012
    jfslater98 wrote: »
    I believe ebay owns paypal, so this is not too surprising. No problems for me with them yet, but I've been reading lots of bad stories. Like how they eat kittens and smash violins.

    One of those statements is probably a lie. Click here to see which one.

    Next order of business is to look into that dwolla business.

    yes ebay owns pp and that is why all other options of payment has been taken off the shelf by ebay....and I like many others here have never had a prob with PP ... and i was using them shortly after they came on the scene .... well before ebay purchased them.

    Dwolla??? hMMMM ....i'll have to check it out...Andy says they are good so they must be...
    "Genuine Fractals was, is and will always be the best solution for enlarging digital photos." ....Vincent Versace ... ... COPYRIGHT YOUR WORK ONLINE ... ... My Website

  • Pure EnergyPure Energy Registered Users Posts: 180 Major grins
    edited March 17, 2012
    PayPal is a tool (bank) that preys on suckers (customers). I just love how someone who is broke (or worse: in debt), sells an item for the first time on eBay, gets money from the buyer, and then has to pay with a credit card to print a shipping label online because PayPal will not pay for the shipping until after it's confirmed that a label was paid for online (pseudo-confirming that the item was shipped).

    Plan on selling more items on eBay and paying for shipping online? Then it's best to have a minimum PayPal balance on a regular basis to pay for possible shipping needs and letting PayPal earn interest on your balance (and the 21-day mandatory free loan) free of charge.

    I only worry about the aggressive Craiglisters that want to buy my item asking for my name and PayPal account name and obviously with a reply will know my email address.

    Should I worry if someone knows my name, email address and PayPal account name? Which is basically the same information someone can find after they've bought something from me on eBay.
  • zdizeezzdizeez Registered Users Posts: 2 Beginner grinner
    edited April 7, 2012
    When I see an Ebay item I want I send the seller a message like this: Hi, I want to bid on your camera but want to know if you will accept a USPS money order as payment. I don't use Paypal anymore.
    Thanks in advance


    I keep a record of these replies so I don't have to re-request again.
    Nearly 99% say okay, most of them have a PP negative comment, seems Ebay requires them to only accept PP for payment...that way, they get their 'cut'.
  • bloomphotogbloomphotog Registered Users Posts: 582 Major grins
    edited April 7, 2012
    Andy wrote: »
    Dwolla is awesome. But then again, I've not had one single issue with Paypal in 9 years. I also use and love Square and Google Checkout.

    Ditch PayPal. I too use Google Checkout and Square. Perfect combo.
    joshmartinezphotography.com
  • CowboydougCowboydoug Registered Users Posts: 401 Major grins
    edited April 9, 2012
    bloomphotog wrote: »
    Ditch PayPal. I too use Google Checkout and Square. Perfect combo.

    I "gots me" a square but have only used it for actual in person swiping ... how does it work with over the phone or verbal CC taking? are the rates higher, is there a delay of payment?
    I'm a Kidnapper... I take terrible pictures of people, then hold them for ransom.

    Cowboydoug
    Certified Journeyman Commercial Photographer
    www.iWasThereToo.com
  • bloomphotogbloomphotog Registered Users Posts: 582 Major grins
    edited April 9, 2012
    Cowboydoug wrote: »
    I "gots me" a square but have only used it for actual in person swiping ... how does it work with over the phone or verbal CC taking? are the rates higher, is there a delay of payment?

    You just punch on the CC info and billing zip. No deposit delay. 3.5% fees.
    joshmartinezphotography.com
  • VichVich Registered Users Posts: 78 Big grins
    edited May 25, 2012
    cmason wrote: »
    I have been happy with Amazon Payments. I won't use Paypal at all. I have sold here on DGrin via Amazon Payments. Essentially, you use your Amazon account, the same one you use to buy on Amazon, but instead of buying something on Amazon, you simply send money to another Amazon account. Credit cards work fine. The seller can cash out, getting a check from Amazon, or keeping a credit on Amazon for use buying something.

    https://payments.amazon.com/sdui/sdui/personal/money

    As far as I know there is no ability to dispute a payment, but there isn't anywhere else either, and IMHO, the dispute aspect of Paypal is the biggest area of abuse and trouble.

    Oh and no cost to use it either.
    Dispute capability is double edged. I've gotten some bad items on EBAY and was glad Paypal forced the seller to accept a return.

    If buying via EBAY the buyer is protected very well; the seller not so much. There are many stories about a refund return being a brick in a box. For non-EBAY transactions; the protection is much weaker but it's still there.

    Paypal is essentially an Escrow. Given the DOA return policy, a 21 day delay seems reasonable for larger transactions.

    Personally; I buy enough online that I've never withdrawn anything from Paypal despite selling thousands in lenses and computers.

    Thanks for all the helpful alternatives everyone!
    Gear - 7D, 5Dii, many lenses , much stuff.
  • PupatorPupator Registered Users Posts: 2,322 Major grins
    edited May 26, 2012
    Just as an update - I'm almost exclusively using Amazon payments now. No fees.
  • photobugphotobug Registered Users Posts: 633 Major grins
    edited May 27, 2012
    zdizeez wrote: »
    When I see an Ebay item I want I send the seller a message like this: Hi, I want to bid on your camera but want to know if you will accept a USPS money order as payment. I don't use Paypal anymore.
    I would never, EVER accept a money order for payment from someone I don't know. (Did I say EVER?) Nothing personal about it -- it's just that there have been numerous scams using fake (but official-looking) USPS money orders.

    I've used Paypal for about 10 years, but also have a Google Checkout account. Amazon always seems to be the "gold standard" so Amazon Payments might be a good one to consider. Andy touts Dwolla and I trust Andy, so that would also be a good one to look at.
    Canon EOS 7D ........ 24-105 f/4L | 50 f/1.4 | 70-200 f/2.8L IS + 1.4x II TC ........ 580EX
    Supported by: Benro C-298 Flexpod tripod, MC96 monopod, Induro PHQ1 head
    Also play with: studio strobes, umbrellas, softboxes, ...and a partridge in a pear tree...
  • Brett1000Brett1000 Registered Users Posts: 819 Major grins
    edited September 18, 2015
    I've been using Paypal for years without problems
  • chrismsmith_fwchrismsmith_fw Registered Users Posts: 5 Big grins
    I was an early adopter of PayPal and used it frequently. I used to purchase on eBay all the time. Quite a few transactions have gone through PayPal on my behalf. They used to be easy to deal with but the past couple of years have been frustrating. I'd prefer not to use them at all. I've also had fraudulent activity via PayPal and not sure the origin. At times, I'm forced to use them but, again, my preference is to avoid them altogether. I purchased a lens using Google Pay not too long ago and it was a piece of cake. If you have a Google account, you may want to consider it.
  • photo303photo303 Registered Users Posts: 6 Big grins
    Paypal favors buyers and the seller almost always loses "chargebacks" this has created a big window for scammers and Paypal dosn't care. As long as your bank acct is link you are the one paying the damages from the scammer. All the sellers I know will not use Paypal anymore, they cannot afford to absorb the risk.

    Now days I think people can do a chargeback for up to 6mo. So some cannot afford to pay rent in 5mo after they make a payment to you ? They can do a chargeback get the money and you are left with a frozen bank acct if you do not have the funds to cover it. No Thanks. I can see 7- 30days but 6mos.. ?
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