Shooting for parents vs. shooting for pros

StevenV

I'm not sure if this one's been beaten to death yet or not, but I couldn't find a thread so here goes...

The 'business' part of my photography is mainly aimed at High School athletes/band members/etc. and their families. I end up posting plenty of pictures that are, to be honest, much less than perfect. I figure that a parent would rather have an under/over-exposed or out-of-focus picture of their kid's activities than no picture at all.

But there's part of me that hates showing those to anyone but the parents. Heck, there are some that hate showing them to the parents even though I know they'll say they're great (when does anyone say something bad about a picture of their son or daughter?).

And I do sell to some local newspapers and wouldn't mind growing that, moving to larger papers and maybe even hitting the magazines some day. I'd hate for any of those folks to think of me by my OOF pictures.

For now I've placated myself by including a note on the front page of my smugmug site, with a link to a "portfolio" gallery.

Photographers
and Editors
please see
this note.

So:

• Am I alone in my quandry?
• What have you folks done?
• Any wording that you might change/suggest on that portfolio page?
• other discussion...

Ann McRae

This is a toughie for me too. I try to follow the advise of pros whom I admire -

only post your good stuff, rules like: face, ball, action, contact, etc.

When I shot a tournament and posted as many as I possibly could, I found that parents were quite willing to buy the less than stellar shots - so by only posting those that are your best you may be missing sales.

I argue with my husband about this all of the time. He feels I should be willing to do more work and especially portraiture. His point is 'look at what people pay for'. and that is, unfortunately, true - people will pay for photos that I think should be tossed. If it were my work I'd never show it to the client. But it still sells.

Difficult, difficult.

I am going to start offering a cd of games -not to my kids teams but to others - I think I will price them at $250 per team - they get a cd of processed shots, minimum of about 40 from my hours work shooting their game, and can print whatever they like. (At $250 a team, thats about a $15 commitment from every player)

ann

marlinspike

You are not alone. I stopped uploading pictures that only a parent could like. Sure I've lost a lot of sales (actually since making this decision I think I sold like 2 prints) but I sleep well at night.

Bodley

StevenV wrote:

But there's part of me that hates showing those to anyone but the parents.

Well, it depends on your mission/goals. Not only do I enjoy making sales but also the fact that the player/s can see themselves on the internet. I would rather chance posting a not so perfect photo (I'm sure that's most of mine) than risk a group of kids looking at the game photo's online ( this usually happens at school) and one being left out because I didn't think the photo was good enough. Do I make any money when kids are looking at the photos? Probably not - but there's more to life than money

What kind of Active X controls are you running on your site - I'm getting a warning when I go to your page.

Diane S

I went to your site where you posted your note to publishers, photographers etc. I understand what you are saying, kind of defending yourself to the 'pros' on your quality of work. But I think this only 'draws attention' to the fact that you think some of the shots are not up to your standards and puts a 'negative' bent on the postings for the parents to read. Since it is geared to parents .. let it speak for itself...don't sell yourself short. also, can you post the game shots for parents in a 'private gallery' where they all know the password? And then post some of the hottest, sharpest high quality shots in the public view in a portfolio type sports gallery. That way, if a parent wants to contract you for further 'quality' shots, they can see the quality of work you can do from your portfolio. That is my 2 cents for what it is worth.

by the way.. I thought all the shots were great.. good action.. definitely no need to write your 'apology note' at the beginning of your site. :

StevenV

Bodley wrote:

Well, it depends on your mission/goals. ... there's more to life than money

Agreed, and perhaps part of my conundrum is that I have more than one goal:

• let the kid see themselves
• let the parents buy prints to save for the future
• let the parents buy prints to make me money
• not fear that an editor would write me off because of something I've posted.

Half of me - or more - would say that those goals are in order.

But there's the part of me that says "hey this could be my next career, don't scare anyone off with less-than perfect shots." (it's the curse of a perfectionist)

Bodley wrote:

What kind of Active X controls are you running on your site - I'm getting a warning when I go to your page.

None, that's odd. I'll have to look into that. What browser/operating system are you using when you see the warning?

Diane wrote:

But I think this only 'draws attention' to the fact that you think some of the shots are not up to your standards and puts a 'negative' bent on the postings for the parents to read

Good point. I'm not happy with the wording either (part of why I started this thread). Maybe just a "Professional Portfolio" (or different words) link to the gallery and a whole set of less-negative words on the gallery itself.

Thanks for the feedback, let's keep the conversation going - I just can't be the only dual-minded self-critical perfectionist here!

Bodley

StevenV wrote:

But there's the part of me that says "hey this could be my next career, don't scare anyone off with less-than perfect shots." (it's the curse of a perfectionist)

I really don't expect an editor to find my youth game on the internet and want to hire me ( I didn't mean this to sound like a smart "a" answer). I would think it would be me putting together a portfolio and sending to the editor for his/her review. If I decided to inform them of my website it would be with the explanation of the goals I'm accomplishing via this site and note it includes culls.

StevenV wrote:

None, that's odd. I'll have to look into that. What browser/operating system are you using when you see the warning?

XP pro and IE6 - but I've noticed it on other sites as well the last few days-

StevenV

Bodley wrote:

I really don't expect an editor to find my youth game on the internet and want to hire me... If I decided to inform them of my website it would be with the explanation of the goals I'm accomplishing via this site and note it includes culls.

True. I include my URL in the signature on all my emails (and elsewhere) so I was thinking that any given email to a photographer might lead them to my site, but you're probably right that a real prospective job would be based on more than just their wandering through my galleries.

Combine that with the other comments here, especially Diane's, and a good night's sleep on the subject, I've decided for the time being to remove the text and just have a 'porfolio of my best' or 'of my favorites'.

If editors/photographers see that and realize that others may not be "up to par" and they should talk with me before judging my work, great. If they don't then at least the top two or three goals are accomplished.

~~~

Bodley wrote:

XP pro and IE6 - but I've noticed it on other sites as well the last few days-

I'm on XP Pro and use both IE6 and Firefox and havn't seen it, though there are times while I was building that text and testing locally that I did. Is it gone now that I've removed that note? There may be some oddity in the floating span that was confusing IE.

JimM

I think you have found the happy medium.

I had the same thoughts at first as well, but now I have even publish my snapshots of fun times with friends and family. It makes it easier to share the pictures. I could password them, but friends/family are just as confusable as the consumer. Does it make some of my work look amateaur, I am sure it does, but at the end of the day, I want the kids and parents to be excited to see great shots of themselves (and as was said, every shot of themselves is a great shot).

I have also posted shots that are important to me, but not to anyone else. I keep these in a private directory. I like the idea they are stored remotely and I can always order prints easily.

Just my 2 cents.

coach-al

My solution
I also shoot lots of sports and in big volume. 500-700 photos per event (cross-country, football, volleyball, track, soccer) is about what I'm doing now. I try to get rid of the poor focus shots. I also get rid of the ones that just don't say anything.

The other day a parent bought a photo that was less than perfect focus. Sometimes I get bleary eyed and I missed this one. It wasn't terrible but I was not proud of it. And he bought it in 8X10. So I sent him an email, explained that I wasn't really happy with that photo. I said it would probably come out OK but not up to my standards. He had already purchased (and said it came out ok) so what I did was offer him a discount on his next purchase and make a special effort to get some good shots of his son in the future. I was able to get some great shots and he bought 3 8X10's at a 25% discount just recently. I looked at it as a win-win and I think he did too.

later,

StevenV

that's not just coach-al, that's customerService-al