#99 Help

PappyRoot

Guys & Gals I desperately want to place an image in the challenge for my first time. One of my favorite Norman Rockwell is of a little boy with a black eye. My son broke his two toes and is layed up. I can not figure out how to make this pic right. I changed ISO, I used flash, no flash, changed aperture, F/Stop, I changed WB. But yet I still get a yellow tinge to my photo. I know I have to crop out somethings. But could you please tell me how I can fix these? Also which angle do you like? These two are the best of all I took. I want to title it The Modern Way To Heal An Oweee

1.


2.

Thank you for you help!!
Darryl

bbjones

I think #2 is a much more compelling composition. Put that foot front and center. The crutches nearby is a very Rockwell detail, so that's nice. Of course you want to move the stuff in the bottom left, and it would be good to move the other chair. In fact, it might be nice to move the whole scene somewhere else. Do you have a front porch? Rockwell would put that kid somewhere so he could keep an eye on his friends playing in the street. A rocker on a front porch would be ideal, but keep it pretty clean so as not to distract from the main subject. Give enough to set a context so the viewer can imagine the rest of the street and kids or whatever, but not any more than necessary.

As for the color tint -- were you using a flash? Sometimes a flash in combination with a strong incandescent light or strong sunlight can make a weird color blend that is hard to fix. Also, did you shoot in RAW or JPEG? You can find a vigorous argument on both sides on the internet, but goofy color situations is definitely once place where RAW is easier. You will find you have a lot more control of white balance in Canon DPP or Lightroom or whatever Nikon's equivalent is, if you shoot in RAW.

You've got a good idea here, keep at it!

PappyRoot

bbjones wrote: »

I think #2 is a much more compelling composition. Put that foot front and center. The crutches nearby is a very Rockwell detail, so that's nice. Of course you want to move the stuff in the bottom left, and it would be good to move the other chair. In fact, it might be nice to move the whole scene somewhere else. Do you have a front porch? Rockwell would put that kid somewhere so he could keep an eye on his friends playing in the street. A rocker on a front porch would be ideal, but keep it pretty clean so as not to distract from the main subject. Give enough to set a context so the viewer can imagine the rest of the street and kids or whatever, but not any more than necessary.

As for the color tint -- were you using a flash? Sometimes a flash in combination with a strong incandescent light or strong sunlight can make a weird color blend that is hard to fix. Also, did you shoot in RAW or JPEG? You can find a vigorous argument on both sides on the internet, but goofy color situations is definitely once place where RAW is easier. You will find you have a lot more control of white balance in Canon DPP or Lightroom or whatever Nikon's equivalent is, if you shoot in RAW.

You've got a good idea here, keep at it!

Thank you for your input. I did shoot in RAW. I tried flash. But I only have on camera. I tried several things in both Elements 10 & Lightroom but could not get it right. I even did it B&W. But nothing seemed to work. I was having trouble cropping and taking out the extra chair and the stuff in the bottom left. I tried spot healing but made things worse. Boy oh Boy you guys sure can tell I am one bad newb.

We live in a basement appt and it is very hard for him to go up and down. Dr said to keep off his foot and keep elevated. But, I like your idea of placing him outside. I will have to see how it turns out. My original idea was to do a Cub Scout image with him in his uniform but alas life happened.

Thank you for your encouraging words. I promise I will keep trying.

Darryl

bbjones

PappyRoot wrote: »

Thank you for your input. I did shoot in RAW. I tried flash. But I only have on camera. I tried several things in both Elements 10 & Lightroom but could not get it right. I even did it B&W. But nothing seemed to work. I was having trouble cropping and taking out the extra chair and the stuff in the bottom left. I tried spot healing but made things worse. Boy oh Boy you guys sure can tell I am one bad newb.

We live in a basement appt and it is very hard for him to go up and down. Dr said to keep off his foot and keep elevated. But, I like your idea of placing him outside. I will have to see how it turns out. My original idea was to do a Cub Scout image with him in his uniform but alas life happened.

Thank you for your encouraging words. I promise I will keep trying.

Darryl

If you have Lightroom, try using the white balance eyedropper tool, and clicking on the cast or on the heater thing. Sometimes I have good luck with that.

Spot healing is a magical art. Some folks got it, some folks don't. I don't. Or, maybe it's just a skill I haven't learned yet.

PappyRoot

bbjones wrote: »

If you have Lightroom, try using the white balance eyedropper tool, and clicking on the cast or on the heater thing. Sometimes I have good luck with that.

Spot healing is a magical art. Some folks got it, some folks don't. I don't. Or, maybe it's just a skill I haven't learned yet.

White balance eyedropper???
I will have to look for that. Can you plz give me a general idea where I would find that? I have 18 days left of the trial version.

Thank you again for all of your help
Darryl

bbjones

PappyRoot wrote: »

White balance eyedropper???
I will have to look for that. Can you plz give me a general idea where I would find that? I have 18 days left of the trial version.

Thank you again for all of your help
Darryl

It's on the Develop tab. I'm trying to attach a picture, let's hope it works. This is LR 3.6; if your trial is for 4.0, it might have moved. I hope not.

Mike Bishop

I really like the input from bbjones on this one. As I look at your photos and read his imput, I could really vision a great shot going on. I can even see a yellow tinge on a front porch as the sun starts to set in the early evening.

What I don't like is where you mention trying to crop out bad things like the second chair. You should think of this is a professional photo shoot and actually invest a little time into it. I also like Jones' Idea of putting the foot up front and center. One other thought that really comes to mind... Think of this as something you would paint or draw. If it is not something that you would paint into the picture then it needs to come out for the photo. Things like that heater, pile of clothes, extra chair.

kwickers

I was eyeing the Norman Rockwell Scout uniform images... Maybe a couple of scout friends would join in and stage a 'helping' shot in uniform for a fellow scout.

sweetharmony

I think the concept is super! And definitely worth re-shooting if you have the time....sometimes it's just so much easier to start new than to keep fiddling with a flawed image. I agree with previous posters that the crutch is important to have. And I like the look of the recliner, too......but definitely reduce all other elements that aren't integral to the story.
Also, Darryl, does your camera have automatic settings for different lights? Both my old Canon Powershots and my Canon Rebel have a place where you can choose an auto feature for the light source, i.e. tungsten, florescent, strong sun, etc. That might help with the color cast.....

PappyRoot

bbjones wrote: »

It's on the Develop tab. I'm trying to attach a picture, let's hope it works. This is LR 3.6; if your trial is for 4.0, it might have moved. I hope not.

I found it and played with it. Thank you so much for all your input. I think I just want to do another shoot. I really like your idea about outside. I think it will be better with him standing with the crutches looking sad that he can not play. Maybe even holding a kite looking up into the sky. With your help my mind is full of ideas now. I had trouble sleeping last night as I kept thinking of new ways.

PappyRoot

Mike Bishop wrote: »

I really like the input from bbjones on this one. As I look at your photos and read his imput, I could really vision a great shot going on. I can even see a yellow tinge on a front porch as the sun starts to set in the early evening.

What I don't like is where you mention trying to crop out bad things like the second chair. You should think of this is a professional photo shoot and actually invest a little time into it. I also like Jones' Idea of putting the foot up front and center. One other thought that really comes to mind... Think of this as something you would paint or draw. If it is not something that you would paint into the picture then it needs to come out for the photo. Things like that heater, pile of clothes, extra chair.

Mike,
Thank you for your advice my friend! Well put. I agree b4 I take the shot I should make sure the extra stuff in not in view and if it is move it. Thank you for your belief in my idea for the challenge.

I like what you said about thinking of it as a drawing or painting. Unfortunately I am a lousy painter or drawer. I hope it dose not translate here in Photography.

Thanks again,
Darryl

PappyRoot

kwickers wrote: »

I was eyeing the Norman Rockwell Scout uniform images... Maybe a couple of scout friends would join in and stage a 'helping' shot in uniform for a fellow scout.

Wonderful wonderful idea!! Me thinks u are on to something Kwickers!!

PappyRoot

sweetharmony wrote: »

I think the concept is super! And definitely worth re-shooting if you have the time....sometimes it's just so much easier to start new than to keep fiddling with a flawed image. I agree with previous posters that the crutch is important to have. And I like the look of the recliner, too......but definitely reduce all other elements that aren't integral to the story.
Also, Darryl, does your camera have automatic settings for different lights? Both my old Canon Powershots and my Canon Rebel have a place where you can choose an auto feature for the light source, i.e. tungsten, florescent, strong sun, etc. That might help with the color cast.....

Leah,
Thank you for your wonderful input. I agree I am going to do another shoot. I will have to wait a few days to let his foot not be so painful. I think I will do an outside shot or try the idea with a couple of scouts surrounding him.

I do have the automatic settings. While inside I place it on tungsten. When outside I use cloudy. Am I wrong in thinking this way? All ideas are welcome as you can see from my comments back to everyone. I honestly thirst for knowledge.

Thanks again.
Darryl

sunflowerstudio

Depends on whether you have tungsten bulbs inside -- if you have fluorescent bulbs (and lots of them are these days) I suspect that setting for tungsten would give you a greenish/bluish cast. Not sure if the rebel has this feature, but on my camera, I can take a picture of something white and then set the white balance using that item. It's absolutely necessary when shooting in gymnasiums/ice rinks, where the light color is really unpredictable.

PappyRoot wrote: »

Leah,
Thank you for your wonderful input. I agree I am going to do another shoot. I will have to wait a few days to let his foot not be so painful. I think I will do an outside shot or try the idea with a couple of scouts surrounding him.

I do have the automatic settings. While inside I place it on tungsten. When outside I use cloudy. Am I wrong in thinking this way? All ideas are welcome as you can see from my comments back to everyone. I honestly thirst for knowledge.

Thanks again.
Darryl

Mike Bishop

PappyRoot wrote: »

Leah,
I think I will do an outside shot or try the idea with a couple of scouts surrounding him.

This is actually sounding good. You want to capture the scouts sharing their latest experiences that he has missed. You boy could wear a distinguishing scout item and the rest normal attire with a clean look like white shirt, blue jeans, scout hat.

If you have a real story to work with, it might make it that much easier. You don't really want this or need this to win a challenge. You should also aim for that creative shot that is worthy of being framed on the wall for the next 50 years.


Looking back at the original photos, I notice that the shutter speed is to slow. Don't be afraid to rig up a bunch of lighting. You could also try playing with the flash to help freeze movement and add clarity and detail.

lkbart

Great idea & lots to work with. Looking forward to seeing your reshoot. If outside doesn't work, put him next to a window - better light & can be a decent backdrop, one Rockwell used a lot.

Regarding the white balance, unless you know the color or Kelvin of the lighting, you may be better off leaving it on auto, shooting in raw & adjust if needed in pp. That works most of the time, unless you are shooting at either end of the spectrum, like some aquariums or red stage lighting, & then you would want to set a custom WB based on the color of the light.

PappyRoot

Mike Bishop wrote: »

This is actually sounding good. You want to capture the scouts sharing their latest experiences that he has missed. You boy could wear a distinguishing scout item and the rest normal attire with a clean look like white shirt, blue jeans, scout hat.

If you have a real story to work with, it might make it that much easier. You don't really want this or need this to win a challenge. You should also aim for that creative shot that is worthy of being framed on the wall for the next 50 years.


Looking back at the original photos, I notice that the shutter speed is to slow. Don't be afraid to rig up a bunch of lighting. You could also try playing with the flash to help freeze movement and add clarity and detail.

Thank you for your ideas. They are infectious!! I can hardly wait to do another shoot. Right now he is too sore to move around. So I will give it a couple of days. One idea while I have been thinking about it is to have him standing on his crutches either holding a kite looking forlorn into the sky or having him on his crutches watching others with a kite. I am also looking at the scouting angle as well. Thank you again!!

lkbart wrote: »

Great idea & lots to work with. Looking forward to seeing your reshoot. If outside doesn't work, put him next to a window - better light & can be a decent backdrop, one Rockwell used a lot.

Regarding the white balance, unless you know the color or Kelvin of the lighting, you may be better off leaving it on auto, shooting in raw & adjust if needed in pp. That works most of the time, unless you are shooting at either end of the spectrum, like some aquariums, & then you would want to set a custom WB based on the color of the light.

Thank you for talking to me about WB and lighting. I really can not thank you enough. I have not studied lighting yet so am pretty much clueless.

Thank you again you two!

Darryl

GretaPics

Darryl - really liking your take on this theme and agree with all the other posts about the possibilities if you conduct a re-shoot. Look forward to seeing the progress. GP

PappyRoot

GretaPics wrote: »

Darryl - really liking your take on this theme and agree with all the other posts about the possibilities if you conduct a re-shoot. Look forward to seeing the progress. GP

Thank you GP