Liking the color mix and tones. She is pretty, love her look.
The out of focus front framing effects in 1 and 2 is ok, I think I would like those shots better without it, but it works well in 4.
4 take a crop up above the feet, they are chopped.
Clean the bra up in 6.
She did a great job with the posing, you did a great job with the framing light and color.
Good example of what can be done with a simple background that fits.
Nice series overall.
Zoomer has mentioned the bra strap in 6. It is also barely visible in 2. In 4, 5, and to a lesser degree 6 show some fairly obvious undergarment lines. These types of things can be time consuming if not impossible to fix in post production. Its important to look for a stray strap before the shutter is snapped. You might also at least consider showing a shot that shows the underwear lines to your subject and suggesting a change. Ive had to ask subjects to remove bras that wouldnt stay hidden and have pointed out underwear lumps to others. Removal of those items is an option and much quicker that the photoshop fix.
I like the oof foreground in 1. Not in 2. The last 3 are my favorites with 4 taking the lead. As previously suggested it needs to be cropped for a 3/4 length since the feet got chopped.
The image quality and exposures look great. You really worked that wall well!
Bryce, Mike and Jeff, thanks so much for your input.
Bryce, the skin tones probably vary in those two shots. I wasn't the most consistent with the processing. These were shot late afternoon, so there is some warmth from the low sun.
Mike, thanks for the idea of cropping #4. My framing was off in general on this series. I have a busted foot and a boot-cast up to my knee, and it was a struggle to get things framed on the uneven terrain.
Mike and Jeff, actually that's not a bra. It's a bathing suit top, and that's a hint of what's to come. The black "dress" is actually a bathing suit cover-up that I asked her to leave on for these shots. But the point is well taken. I need to get better at spotting details like this.
All, the OOF weeds were a bit of an experiment, so the feedback is really helpful.
Thanks again for checking in and I really appreciate the help.
Ive experimented a little with OOF foreground elements too. So far I havent really done one that I really like. But. I can tell you that heatherfeather here on dgrin is VERY good at making that work. Search out some of her weddings posts and look for some of her outdoor shots like that.
The foreground in the first two is very distracting. Otherwise #2 would be a big hit for me. #3 & 6 not a big fan of push up photos and watch out for bra straps. It's very tough to pose those long slender arms, I might try to keep them together instead of separate to lessen them. Really do like the skin tones and lighting.
Thanks, Charles! "Push up photos", I didn't know there was a name for this pose, so thanks for the education. Clearly my attempt at creativity with the OOF background is a fail. But, that's exactly what I wanted to know. I appreciate the tips on the arms. She wants to shoot some more, so I need tips like this for posing her. Any other ideas that you or anybody else on posing super-skinny women would be very helpful.
Here's an anti-push up shot for you, with no OOF foreground distractions. (I know, I know, clipped fingers. :cry)
I disagree that the OOF foreground is a fail (I assume that's what you meant, not background). I like it. Might not be perfect, but it gives the shots a voyeuristic feeling that gives those shots some extra impact (IMHO).
The only thing that doesn't work for me is the OOF eye on #3 - I don't mind one eye fading due to DOF, but I'd love it to be reversed here so the leading eye is the one that's sharp.
The slight mis-framings (fingers/feet etc) can easily be fixed with alternate crops. Some of those vertical shots would make great landscape orientation, too (eg the last one you added in post #8)
ETA: #3 is such a winner in all other ways, if you have one in the can I'd even consider finding another shot in that series with the closer eye in focus and pasting it in as an "eye swap" (either one or both, depending on which looked better)....
Hey Joel- I am by no means as skilled in portrait photography as others that have posted already but I'll give you my thoughts on these.
#1 - I like the OOF foreground on this one and the processing is nice and subdued. I would like to see a little more of her eyes or for them to be closed. he lips being a little more closed would also add more emotion. The blah sky detracts a little bit - a creative flare or vignetting may or may not help in this aspect.
#2 - The orange in her face is very prominent and needs to be adjusted. The in between closed and smile still bothers me here too. With her hand placement I would have asked her to look to her left shoulder as in a moment of thought. I like the background filling the frame and like the OOF foreground here as well.
#3 - Love the filling of the frame and the placement of the hands. This one can use some POP though! Bring your whites up for her eyes and teeth and increase the black just a tad. Should make a huge difference.
#4 - I agree on the crop for this one and the orange is again pretty strong in her face. The undergarment bunching is also pretty noticeable in this one.
#5 - I like this one a lot as well. I would crop the barn handle out on the right edge because there is not enough of it to add anything to the image. The orange is a little strong but not as much as the others. The undergarment issue is the least flattering in this image. Hand placement is good and he skin tones on arm and chest are great.
#6 - Processing on this one is a lot different than the others. I think you need to take your mid tones up on this one to soften it up. The only other thing you might try on this one is softening the chin dimple. The strap doesn't bother me in this one at all. Feels very natural to be there and you see it on her back too. I would keep that if it was mine.
#7 - similar to #6 she is quite a bit darker. If you can lighten her skin tones and keep the bard doors and background the same this will be really nice. The hands are chopped but I personally wouldn't crop up because I love the S curve you have with her back and back side. I would see about taking a little from the top and left fill the frame more.
Overall it looks like a really nice shoot with an attractive girl. Congrats.
"The Journey of life is as much in oneself as the roads one travels"
I disagree that the OOF foreground is a fail (I assume that's what you meant, not background). I like it. Might not be perfect, but it gives the shots a voyeuristic feeling that gives those shots some extra impact (IMHO).
Thank you! Voyeuristic is a good way to describe the look I was going for.
The only thing that doesn't work for me is the OOF eye on #3 - I don't mind one eye fading due to DOF, but I'd love it to be reversed here so the leading eye is the one that's sharp.
The slight mis-framings (fingers/feet etc) can easily be fixed with alternate crops. Some of those vertical shots would make great landscape orientation, too (eg the last one you added in post #8)
ETA: #3 is such a winner in all other ways, if you have one in the can I'd even consider finding another shot in that series with the closer eye in focus and pasting it in as an "eye swap" (either one or both, depending on which looked better)....
Hey Diva, wow, great eye. Yes, the focus is on the wrong eye here. I was hoping it wasn't so obvious, but you caught it. I have other head-shots, but this is one of my favorites. I may process a few more and see if I can get one better than this. I really appreciate the nice comments though and glad you liked the set.
Hey Joel- I am by no means as skilled in portrait photography as others that have posted already but I'll give you my thoughts on these.
#1 - I like the OOF foreground on this one and the processing is nice and subdued. I would like to see a little more of her eyes or for them to be closed. he lips being a little more closed would also add more emotion. The blah sky detracts a little bit - a creative flare or vignetting may or may not help in this aspect.
#2 - The orange in her face is very prominent and needs to be adjusted. The in between closed and smile still bothers me here too. With her hand placement I would have asked her to look to her left shoulder as in a moment of thought. I like the background filling the frame and like the OOF foreground here as well.
#3 - Love the filling of the frame and the placement of the hands. This one can use some POP though! Bring your whites up for her eyes and teeth and increase the black just a tad. Should make a huge difference.
#4 - I agree on the crop for this one and the orange is again pretty strong in her face. The undergarment bunching is also pretty noticeable in this one.
#5 - I like this one a lot as well. I would crop the barn handle out on the right edge because there is not enough of it to add anything to the image. The orange is a little strong but not as much as the others. The undergarment issue is the least flattering in this image. Hand placement is good and he skin tones on arm and chest are great.
#6 - Processing on this one is a lot different than the others. I think you need to take your mid tones up on this one to soften it up. The only other thing you might try on this one is softening the chin dimple. The strap doesn't bother me in this one at all. Feels very natural to be there and you see it on her back too. I would keep that if it was mine.
#7 - similar to #6 she is quite a bit darker. If you can lighten her skin tones and keep the bard doors and background the same this will be really nice. The hands are chopped but I personally wouldn't crop up because I love the S curve you have with her back and back side. I would see about taking a little from the top and left fill the frame more.
Overall it looks like a really nice shoot with an attractive girl. Congrats.
Hey Aaron, thanks so much for the detailed critique. I agree with many, but not all of your points. You always have good input on posing and other aesthetics. Naturally I'm pleased that like Brett above, you liked the OOF shots. I'm thinking those aren't a fail any more, but more a matter of taste.
However, your color ideas I'm not so sure of. Starting with your idea of bumping the white and black points in #3. I actually spend a lot of time on my black and white points, so that critique comes as a surprise to me. For starters, her teeth are already white and I can show that empirically. This is a color picker tool running against a screen shot of this thread. I've sampled a spot on her teeth, and you can see the exact point on the Colormania preview window.
Note the values: 251, 255, 254. Since JPG pixel values only go up to 255, you can see that this area on her teeth is as pushed as far as possible without blowing out entirely. That's no accident, as I used her teeth to set my white point during processing. Note also that these numbers are unaffected by monitor calibration; they are the actual pixel values of the image in this thread. So unless I want to blow out areas of her teeth, the white point is correct in this image. Similarly, I'm not seeing your issue with the white of her eyes. I really hate over-whitened eyes and think her eyes look pretty good here.
Regarding the black point, I used a value as to not clip her hair. When you clip black hair it turns into a blob. By not clipping it, you can still see every hair in this image, even though some of it is very dark. I will grant that it's a subjective call whether to go ahead and clip some portions of her hair to gain a bit more contrast. However, the parts that clip first are the areas directly against her face, and to my eye it looks really lousy -- to have this black void directly against her cheeks. I suppose one could get the best of both worlds by allowing the hair to clip, then dodging away the clipped areas. Food for thought.
The other thing I'd like to address is the orange cast that you said is "very prominent and needs to be adjusted." The reality is that I already did adjust it, and probably not in the direction you think. Remember, I already mentioned above that these shot were taken late in the day.
I started off my shoot by shooting a gray card. The WB on this is 8200, -3. The gray on your screen is exactly gray, and I invite you to measure it for yourself. That means her skin color in that shot is accurate.
Here's the very next shot I took, and synch'd to that WB from the card.
Pretty orange, huh? However, I contend that's what the scene looked like. The shots in this thread have in fact been adjusted to reduce but not eliminate the orange. After all, when you shoot landscapes in the sweet light, do you color correct out the alpen glow? Of course not. That's why you shoot in the sweet light in the first place. However, people are not landscapes, so I split the difference. Would it be more correct to completely eliminate the sweet light on her face? I'll leave that as a rhetorical question. You tell me.
To me your color and black point and eyes and teeth look just right. They look natural.
As you mentioned colors will be place, setting, light direction, exposure appropriate and can change shot to shot as conditions change.
Just to strengthen your point about the front out of focus area, agree that it is not a fail and you should continue to work with it as a framing tool. Sometimes it will work better than others, and one persons success is another persons fail...you knew that .
Agree that it provides a voyeuristic feel, when done well.....which is a Very Fine Line....otherwise it is just distracting.
Ok so where are the shots from after the wardrobe change...........:).
It sounds as if 255 means white. I don't think that is correct as it should mean that section is blow out or the values are so far out they can't be recorded on the high end as 0 is to the low end. If I'm wrong please correct me.
It sounds as if 255 means white. I don't think that is correct as it should mean that section is blow out or the values are so far out they can't be recorded on the high end as 0 is to the low end. If I'm wrong please correct me.
Charles, no argument from me. My green channel at 255 has possibly lost data on her teeth already. Maybe or maybe not. The value could actually be 255, but if it's higher then we'll never know because it's clipped at 255. The blue channel of 254 is right up against the limit of course. Since all three values are so close to each other it's probably a pretty safe assumption that I didn't lose too much green data. But, my point is that the exposure on her teeth is already cranked as high as I can go without doing further damage to them, or changing the color to pure white (which is 255,255,255). When you blow out all three channels, the resultant color is pure white. That color doesn't exist on human bodies though.
One thing I do for teeth - and eye whites - sometimes is simply add a "screen" blend layer and mask out everything except teeth/eye whites, adjusting opacity as needed.
I have no idea howt his emprically sets the colour, but fwiw - it works for me for portraits!
I do see a bit of orange artefacting on her cheeks in 2 & 6, which leads me to believe she may have overdone it a tad with the blush/bronzer; you may want to adjust the colour on those areas to be more congruous with the natural skintone on the rest of her body
One thing I do for teeth - and eye whites - sometimes is simply add a "screen" blend layer and mask out everything except teeth/eye whites, adjusting opacity as needed.
I have no idea howt his emprically sets the colour, but fwiw - it works for me for portraits!
I do see a bit of orange artefacting on her cheeks in 2 & 6, which leads me to believe she may have overdone it a tad with the blush/bronzer; you may want to adjust the colour on those areas to be more congruous with the natural skintone on the rest of her body
Thanks, Diva. There are all sorts of ways to brighten teeth and eyes. Again, I didn't think these shots needed any, but that's just my opinion.
I went back to the raw files and took a closer look at the bronze color, especially in the shots where it's more prominent on the face rather than the body. I think part of it is makeup as you say, combined with the evening sun. Also, her face is somewhat shaded by her afro hairdo, which might contribute to the color shift.
Years ago, I was sitting at a redlight in the car with my wife. I was watching her as she sat behind the wheel.....maybe wondering what a beautiful woman like her was doing with a guy like me. In any event, a school bus eventually pulled up to wait in the adjoining lane. The color in her face changed to a orangey yellowey glow....my "moment" interrupted.
The bus was at least 8 feet from her face....but still.
It taught me something about photography...and really made me to realize how important the use of flash can be outdoors.
You can underexpose your base natural light exposure a bit and make up the difference with flash to drive away reflected color casts. Even 1/3 of a stop can begin to make a difference. Realizing what might be reflected onto your subject beforehand is also important...so that you can set up the shot to avoid ugly color reflects.
...but...
Dont take that to mean I dont like what I have seen here. Really. In fact, the shot you posted below the grey card shot that used a WB based on the grey......? Well I actually even find the color in that shot pleasing. Sure it could use some fine tuning in areas, but still.....its exposed well and has a nice contrast and warm color. Nothing looks unnatural. I like it.
Funny story, Jeff. I get what you're saying though. I've used flash outdoors before, mostly for balancing right. It's a bit of a revelation to realize that it can also be used to correct reflected colors. You certainly put it to good use in your work from what I've seen. I'll have to remember to give this a try next time.
Here's another shot with the WB set to the gray card. That dress is black believe it or not.
Comments
I like the choice of surroundings. Really like the expression in one, but, not sure I'm diggin the out of focus foliage in the foreground though.
Like the close up a lot!
Does her complexion naturally have that orangish tint I see in two and six?
The out of focus front framing effects in 1 and 2 is ok, I think I would like those shots better without it, but it works well in 4.
4 take a crop up above the feet, they are chopped.
Clean the bra up in 6.
She did a great job with the posing, you did a great job with the framing light and color.
Good example of what can be done with a simple background that fits.
Nice series overall.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21695902@N06/
http://500px.com/Shockey
alloutdoor.smugmug.com
http://aoboudoirboise.smugmug.com/
I like the oof foreground in 1. Not in 2. The last 3 are my favorites with 4 taking the lead. As previously suggested it needs to be cropped for a 3/4 length since the feet got chopped.
The image quality and exposures look great. You really worked that wall well!
Jeff
-Need help with Dgrin?; Wedding Photography Resources
-My Website - Blog - Tips for Senior Portraiture
Bryce, the skin tones probably vary in those two shots. I wasn't the most consistent with the processing. These were shot late afternoon, so there is some warmth from the low sun.
Mike, thanks for the idea of cropping #4. My framing was off in general on this series. I have a busted foot and a boot-cast up to my knee, and it was a struggle to get things framed on the uneven terrain.
Mike and Jeff, actually that's not a bra. It's a bathing suit top, and that's a hint of what's to come.
All, the OOF weeds were a bit of an experiment, so the feedback is really helpful.
Thanks again for checking in and I really appreciate the help.
-joel
Link to my Smugmug site
You wont be disapointed.
Jeff
-Need help with Dgrin?; Wedding Photography Resources
-My Website - Blog - Tips for Senior Portraiture
www.cameraone.biz
Here's an anti-push up shot for you, with no OOF foreground distractions. (I know, I know, clipped fingers. :cry)
Link to my Smugmug site
Forum for Canadian shooters: www.canphoto.net
The only thing that doesn't work for me is the OOF eye on #3 - I don't mind one eye fading due to DOF, but I'd love it to be reversed here so the leading eye is the one that's sharp.
The slight mis-framings (fingers/feet etc) can easily be fixed with alternate crops. Some of those vertical shots would make great landscape orientation, too (eg the last one you added in post #8)
ETA: #3 is such a winner in all other ways, if you have one in the can I'd even consider finding another shot in that series with the closer eye in focus and pasting it in as an "eye swap" (either one or both, depending on which looked better)....
#1 - I like the OOF foreground on this one and the processing is nice and subdued. I would like to see a little more of her eyes or for them to be closed. he lips being a little more closed would also add more emotion. The blah sky detracts a little bit - a creative flare or vignetting may or may not help in this aspect.
#2 - The orange in her face is very prominent and needs to be adjusted. The in between closed and smile still bothers me here too. With her hand placement I would have asked her to look to her left shoulder as in a moment of thought. I like the background filling the frame and like the OOF foreground here as well.
#3 - Love the filling of the frame and the placement of the hands. This one can use some POP though!
#4 - I agree on the crop for this one and the orange is again pretty strong in her face. The undergarment bunching is also pretty noticeable in this one.
#5 - I like this one a lot as well. I would crop the barn handle out on the right edge because there is not enough of it to add anything to the image. The orange is a little strong but not as much as the others. The undergarment issue is the least flattering in this image. Hand placement is good and he skin tones on arm and chest are great.
#6 - Processing on this one is a lot different than the others. I think you need to take your mid tones up on this one to soften it up. The only other thing you might try on this one is softening the chin dimple. The strap doesn't bother me in this one at all. Feels very natural to be there and you see it on her back too. I would keep that if it was mine.
#7 - similar to #6 she is quite a bit darker. If you can lighten her skin tones and keep the bard doors and background the same this will be really nice. The hands are chopped but I personally wouldn't crop up because I love the S curve you have with her back and back side. I would see about taking a little from the top and left fill the frame more.
Overall it looks like a really nice shoot with an attractive girl. Congrats.
Aaron Newman
Website:www.CapturingLightandEmotion.com
Facebook: Capturing Light and Emotion
Thank you! Voyeuristic is a good way to describe the look I was going for.
Hey Diva, wow, great eye. Yes, the focus is on the wrong eye here. I was hoping it wasn't so obvious, but you caught it. I have other head-shots, but this is one of my favorites. I may process a few more and see if I can get one better than this. I really appreciate the nice comments though and glad you liked the set.
Link to my Smugmug site
Hey Aaron, thanks so much for the detailed critique. I agree with many, but not all of your points. You always have good input on posing and other aesthetics. Naturally I'm pleased that like Brett above, you liked the OOF shots. I'm thinking those aren't a fail any more, but more a matter of taste.
However, your color ideas I'm not so sure of. Starting with your idea of bumping the white and black points in #3. I actually spend a lot of time on my black and white points, so that critique comes as a surprise to me. For starters, her teeth are already white and I can show that empirically. This is a color picker tool running against a screen shot of this thread. I've sampled a spot on her teeth, and you can see the exact point on the Colormania preview window.
Note the values: 251, 255, 254. Since JPG pixel values only go up to 255, you can see that this area on her teeth is as pushed as far as possible without blowing out entirely. That's no accident, as I used her teeth to set my white point during processing. Note also that these numbers are unaffected by monitor calibration; they are the actual pixel values of the image in this thread. So unless I want to blow out areas of her teeth, the white point is correct in this image. Similarly, I'm not seeing your issue with the white of her eyes. I really hate over-whitened eyes and think her eyes look pretty good here.
Regarding the black point, I used a value as to not clip her hair. When you clip black hair it turns into a blob. By not clipping it, you can still see every hair in this image, even though some of it is very dark. I will grant that it's a subjective call whether to go ahead and clip some portions of her hair to gain a bit more contrast. However, the parts that clip first are the areas directly against her face, and to my eye it looks really lousy -- to have this black void directly against her cheeks. I suppose one could get the best of both worlds by allowing the hair to clip, then dodging away the clipped areas. Food for thought.
The other thing I'd like to address is the orange cast that you said is "very prominent and needs to be adjusted." The reality is that I already did adjust it, and probably not in the direction you think. Remember, I already mentioned above that these shot were taken late in the day.
I started off my shoot by shooting a gray card. The WB on this is 8200, -3. The gray on your screen is exactly gray, and I invite you to measure it for yourself. That means her skin color in that shot is accurate.
Here's the very next shot I took, and synch'd to that WB from the card.
Pretty orange, huh? However, I contend that's what the scene looked like. The shots in this thread have in fact been adjusted to reduce but not eliminate the orange. After all, when you shoot landscapes in the sweet light, do you color correct out the alpen glow? Of course not. That's why you shoot in the sweet light in the first place. However, people are not landscapes, so I split the difference. Would it be more correct to completely eliminate the sweet light on her face? I'll leave that as a rhetorical question. You tell me.
Cheers,
-joel
Link to my Smugmug site
As you mentioned colors will be place, setting, light direction, exposure appropriate and can change shot to shot as conditions change.
Just to strengthen your point about the front out of focus area, agree that it is not a fail and you should continue to work with it as a framing tool. Sometimes it will work better than others, and one persons success is another persons fail...you knew that
Agree that it provides a voyeuristic feel, when done well.....which is a Very Fine Line....otherwise it is just distracting.
Ok so where are the shots from after the wardrobe change...........:).
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21695902@N06/
http://500px.com/Shockey
alloutdoor.smugmug.com
http://aoboudoirboise.smugmug.com/
www.cameraone.biz
Link to my Smugmug site
Link to my Smugmug site
I have no idea howt his emprically sets the colour, but fwiw - it works for me for portraits!
I do see a bit of orange artefacting on her cheeks in 2 & 6, which leads me to believe she may have overdone it a tad with the blush/bronzer; you may want to adjust the colour on those areas to be more congruous with the natural skintone on the rest of her body
I went back to the raw files and took a closer look at the bronze color, especially in the shots where it's more prominent on the face rather than the body. I think part of it is makeup as you say, combined with the evening sun. Also, her face is somewhat shaded by her afro hairdo, which might contribute to the color shift.
Link to my Smugmug site
http://dgrin.smugmug.com/Tutorials/Photoshop-Start-Here/Make-Your-Image-Pop/2292454_Q3sPbK
Years ago, I was sitting at a redlight in the car with my wife. I was watching her as she sat behind the wheel.....maybe wondering what a beautiful woman like her was doing with a guy like me. In any event, a school bus eventually pulled up to wait in the adjoining lane. The color in her face changed to a orangey yellowey glow....my "moment" interrupted.
The bus was at least 8 feet from her face....but still.
It taught me something about photography...and really made me to realize how important the use of flash can be outdoors.
You can underexpose your base natural light exposure a bit and make up the difference with flash to drive away reflected color casts. Even 1/3 of a stop can begin to make a difference. Realizing what might be reflected onto your subject beforehand is also important...so that you can set up the shot to avoid ugly color reflects.
...but...
Dont take that to mean I dont like what I have seen here. Really. In fact, the shot you posted below the grey card shot that used a WB based on the grey......? Well I actually even find the color in that shot pleasing. Sure it could use some fine tuning in areas, but still.....its exposed well and has a nice contrast and warm color. Nothing looks unnatural. I like it.
Jeff
-Need help with Dgrin?; Wedding Photography Resources
-My Website - Blog - Tips for Senior Portraiture
Here's another shot with the WB set to the gray card. That dress is black believe it or not.
Link to my Smugmug site