Yes, it probably would. But to GET that, you're actually talking some kind of photographer's union, just like there's an actor's union, and a musician's union, and an opera singer and ballet dancer union (all real examples, Equity, American Federation of Musicians, and American Guild of Musical Artists respectively)
To ensure "professional grade" pay and non-abusive/exploitative working conditions is how and why those unions emerged.
Btw, as far as raising shooting fees: I've been in a pretty continuous price-roll since I first started charging two years ago - I have never ONCE had anybody complain at a higher price, even when they were referred by a friend who got a different deal/price/package that I no longer offer. Just saying.
divamum,
Again let me state my post is simply chatting ect. I don't envision any of this changing, and I am certainly not advocating unions or gov mandated photography rates or who can and can not perform photography services.
For good or bad it's hard to beat the free enterprise system, even when it hurts a little.
All this really means is you / we / me have to be a better photographer and a better marketing business person.
Johng - post #30: I couldn't have summarised it better. There are lots of talented amateurs who have absolutely no interest in making photography a business. They will shoot what they like, when they like, for whom they like ... and if they can pick up a few dollars to help pay for some of the costs of their hobby, then yes that is a welcome bonus. What I have less time for are hobbiest who know so little about photography/cameras/settings that they are not aware how BAD BAD BAD their photos are. (BUT if someone wants to buy their rubbish because that is what they perceive as good value, then it's not for me to say "no you can't do that")
That is the "brave new world", so what is a professional photographer to do about it?
Not really in a position to say (but maybe more enlightened togs can add) but ....
* don't compete for the "low end" market. Put your energy into marketing and attracting people who can distinguish the difference in quality. People who want "low ball" will always buy at that level - if all the "cheap" amateurs gave up, they would still probably not be willing to pay a "professional price". These people just do not see it as value for money.
"Ah but they will get horrible photos for their wedding day!" - well that may well happen. Buyer beware - that's the risk they take. When I buy a cheap power drill at a discount store, because that's all I can afford (or am willing to pay), I KNOW it isn't as good/reliable as the top-of-line drills ... but I can live with that and I take the risk. If the cheapies keep breaking then I might change my idea about value for money and my friends will learn from the experience too - it might put them off buying that particular brand of powerdrill (or using that disaster of a mwac/dwac)
* spend time/effort educating your market. Why should they pay a higher price for you, the pro. What is going to convince them that there is better VALUE in going with the pro. Many people need to see the difference - who will show it to them? Well is certainly isn't in the best interests of the cheap hobbiest to do that. The pro has to do it - show comparison portfolios. This is typical of the cheap hobbiest and this is typical of a pro (quality of photo, quality of prints, quality of books, quality of presentation, range/diversity of shots and shooting ideas, quality of editing, ability to cope with "disasters" (inclement weather, lens/camera/strobe malfunctions), quality of customer service - making the bride/model feel like a million dollars.
Ability to supply extras - make up artists, studio and studio setups
* point out the value and need for liability insurance. Educate the community / prospective market about why this is important for THEM
* Forget about trying to justify your cost of doing business. Customers are not interested in your business ... only what you can do for them.
* Have a portfolio of products that a cheap amateur can't supply (they don't have to be cheap ... but they do need to something the customer WANTS and can't get it from the hobbiest)
* be available when the customer needs a photographer
??????? I'm sure pros are thinking about how they can stand out from the hobbiest - how they can differentiate themselves. The cheap customer is NOT the pros market - they need to target a different market and/or convince the "cheap-set" that the pro is providing better value.
So what else can pros do to find that market for themselves? - love to hear your thoughts
This is a great thread.
One thing I LOVE about this forum, is the quality of discussion/debate and the respectful way members do this. A terrific sign of the maturity and professionalism of all concerned.
My opinion does not necessarily make it true. What you do with my opinion is entirely up to you. www.acecootephotography.com
Sam - you're right about liability and "you break it you bought it" - my point was, hobbyists are willing to incur that risk. To them, they're just performing their hobby. They don't, as a rule, buy liability. So, it's not an expense they have to cover.
Again I am just venting a little. One example is I was doing 1st birthday parties for a particular ethnic community. I did the first dirt cheep and through in a photo session in a local park at no additional cost because I wanted to have a few kid images.
The next two birthday parties I was asked about a free family photo shoot. I did decline and they booked. The rate was still cheap.
After doing a few and getting a real handle on the time, gear, post processing etc. I raised the rate by $50.00. I still believe this is below average. They didn't book and a day before the party they called and all but begged me to come. Unfortunately I was already committed to something else.
While all (right or wrong) praised the photos $50.00 was a deal breaker for them. Now I do understand if one has limited funds, but they were all buying $300.00 to $450.00 cakes. Paying $150.00 or so for a fairy or magic show of an hour. Renting the whole restaurant and providing food, presents for the kids balloons etc.
It can be a bit discouraging when one is offering services above and beyond the price your charging and is affordable for the client is perceived as too expensive.
Just saying......
As for the mature and professional part, I am adding the following to my site: "I have been certified by Aceco55, Australia's premier photographer as mature and professional."
Sam - you're right about liability and "you break it you bought it" - my point was, hobbyists are willing to incur that risk. To them, they're just performing their hobby. They don't, as a rule, buy liability. So, it's not an expense they have to cover.
Point taken, but they are covering the cost. They are self insuring.
As for the mature and professional part, I am adding the following to my site: "I have been certified by Aceco55, Australia's premier photographer as mature and professional."
Sam
So does that mean I can add the following to my site: "I have been certified by the mature and professional Sam from San Jose as Australia's premier photographer" ??? :ivar
But seriously - I also subscribed to other forums and on some of those, this discussion would have degenerated into SHOUTING and personal attacks. This forum has always been just a wonderful source of information from really helpful photographers. So many good people here.
My opinion does not necessarily make it true. What you do with my opinion is entirely up to you. www.acecootephotography.com
Comments
divamum,
Again let me state my post is simply chatting ect. I don't envision any of this changing, and I am certainly not advocating unions or gov mandated photography rates or who can and can not perform photography services.
For good or bad it's hard to beat the free enterprise system, even when it hurts a little.
All this really means is you / we / me have to be a better photographer and a better marketing business person.
Sam
Oh, absolutely! I never thought otherwise (and ditto here)
That is the "brave new world", so what is a professional photographer to do about it?
Not really in a position to say (but maybe more enlightened togs can add) but ....
* don't compete for the "low end" market. Put your energy into marketing and attracting people who can distinguish the difference in quality. People who want "low ball" will always buy at that level - if all the "cheap" amateurs gave up, they would still probably not be willing to pay a "professional price". These people just do not see it as value for money.
"Ah but they will get horrible photos for their wedding day!" - well that may well happen. Buyer beware - that's the risk they take. When I buy a cheap power drill at a discount store, because that's all I can afford (or am willing to pay), I KNOW it isn't as good/reliable as the top-of-line drills ... but I can live with that and I take the risk. If the cheapies keep breaking then I might change my idea about value for money and my friends will learn from the experience too - it might put them off buying that particular brand of powerdrill (or using that disaster of a mwac/dwac)
* spend time/effort educating your market. Why should they pay a higher price for you, the pro. What is going to convince them that there is better VALUE in going with the pro. Many people need to see the difference - who will show it to them? Well is certainly isn't in the best interests of the cheap hobbiest to do that. The pro has to do it - show comparison portfolios. This is typical of the cheap hobbiest and this is typical of a pro (quality of photo, quality of prints, quality of books, quality of presentation, range/diversity of shots and shooting ideas, quality of editing, ability to cope with "disasters" (inclement weather, lens/camera/strobe malfunctions), quality of customer service - making the bride/model feel like a million dollars.
Ability to supply extras - make up artists, studio and studio setups
* point out the value and need for liability insurance. Educate the community / prospective market about why this is important for THEM
* Forget about trying to justify your cost of doing business. Customers are not interested in your business ... only what you can do for them.
* Have a portfolio of products that a cheap amateur can't supply (they don't have to be cheap ... but they do need to something the customer WANTS and can't get it from the hobbiest)
* be available when the customer needs a photographer
??????? I'm sure pros are thinking about how they can stand out from the hobbiest - how they can differentiate themselves. The cheap customer is NOT the pros market - they need to target a different market and/or convince the "cheap-set" that the pro is providing better value.
So what else can pros do to find that market for themselves? - love to hear your thoughts
This is a great thread.
One thing I LOVE about this forum, is the quality of discussion/debate and the respectful way members do this. A terrific sign of the maturity and professionalism of all concerned.
www.acecootephotography.com
Good post, and nice points.
Again I am just venting a little. One example is I was doing 1st birthday parties for a particular ethnic community. I did the first dirt cheep and through in a photo session in a local park at no additional cost because I wanted to have a few kid images.
The next two birthday parties I was asked about a free family photo shoot. I did decline and they booked. The rate was still cheap.
After doing a few and getting a real handle on the time, gear, post processing etc. I raised the rate by $50.00. I still believe this is below average. They didn't book and a day before the party they called and all but begged me to come. Unfortunately I was already committed to something else.
While all (right or wrong) praised the photos $50.00 was a deal breaker for them. Now I do understand if one has limited funds, but they were all buying $300.00 to $450.00 cakes. Paying $150.00 or so for a fairy or magic show of an hour. Renting the whole restaurant and providing food, presents for the kids balloons etc.
It can be a bit discouraging when one is offering services above and beyond the price your charging and is affordable for the client is perceived as too expensive.
Just saying......
As for the mature and professional part, I am adding the following to my site: "I have been certified by Aceco55, Australia's premier photographer as mature and professional."
Sam
Point taken, but they are covering the cost. They are self insuring.
Sam
So does that mean I can add the following to my site: "I have been certified by the mature and professional Sam from San Jose as Australia's premier photographer" ??? :ivar
But seriously - I also subscribed to other forums and on some of those, this discussion would have degenerated into SHOUTING and personal attacks. This forum has always been just a wonderful source of information from really helpful photographers. So many good people here.
www.acecootephotography.com