Continuous vs Strobe Lighting

dlscott56

I'm sure this must have been discussed in detail somewhere around here. Just can't find it. I just returned from a lighting workshop where they used continuous florescent lighting. It's the first time I've really had a chance to see it used. I have to say that it seemed pretty appealing to have a wysiwyg set up.

I also attended a Kelby seminar not too long ago where he suggested the Elinchrom BX500 lighting system.

Anyway, I'm currently saving my pennies for some more serious lighting equipment than my Lumopro 120 flashes and Cactus triggers. My goal is to get set up to do studio portrait photography and headshots and would like to know what your thoughts are?

Thanks in advance for your input.

Nikolai

continuous:
+ wisiwyg
+ video
- use more power than strobes since they are always on
- your subject is continuosly exposed to the bright lighting - not necessarily the best thing, especially if you plan to work with a non-pro crowd
- cannot possibly overpower the sun outdoors (unless you talking very power units, probably not "cold" lights though)
- require AC

flashes:
- no wysiwyg, unless you count modeling light
- no can do video
+ only uses very little energy (I can work a whole day on a pack or two of AA)
+ doesn't obliviate the subject with constant lighing
+ can compete with sun
+ can easily operate on batteries

I guess it mostly depends on what you do and how you do it.

Moving Pictures

Nikolai wrote: »

continuous:- no wysiwyg, unless you count modeling light
- no can do video

I also think that flashes can give you a helluva lot more flexibility, for moving stuff around, gelling, etc. Today, I shot a simple spur-of-the-moment standalone of a gelato vendor. I piped a pair of 1/8 power strobes through both sides of the display case, and shot through the plexi to the vendor at the other side. No way that I coulda done that simply, with lights. Again, I'm a mobile, newsy/sports guy so flashes fit my niche.

dlscott56

Moving Pictures wrote: »

I also think that flashes can give you a helluva lot more flexibility, for moving stuff around, gelling, etc. Today, I shot a simple spur-of-the-moment standalone of a gelato vendor. I piped a pair of 1/8 power strobes through both sides of the display case, and shot through the plexi to the vendor at the other side. No way that I coulda done that simply, with lights. Again, I'm a mobile, newsy/sports guy so flashes fit my niche.

So you're talking about the versatility of flashes vs studio lighting? If I'm understanding correctly I see what you mean. I have 3 flashes, gels, grids, etc for modifiers and some light boxes and umbrellas and can carry a lot of stuff with me when I'm shooting on the go. Also read a lot about photogs like David Hobby and Joe McNally and see what they are able to accomplish with flashes and modifiers.

I take it then that you would suggest a better set up is to stick with the flashes for versatility on the road?

dlscott56

Nikolai wrote: »

continuous:
- no wysiwyg, unless you count modeling light

Just curious, how closely does the modelling light reflect the actual shape and fall off of light from the strobe? I know it's less power. The trouble I have with fine tuning my light setups with flashes is that I have to keep shooting, not just to fine tune power levels, but to get the positioning right as well.

Moving Pictures

dlscott56 wrote: »

I take it then that you would suggest a better set up is to stick with the flashes for versatility on the road?

Depends on what you do, right? Me, I looked at some studio lights, but I don't have a studio ... never will ... so no use running with anything other than speedlights. (And, half my stuff goes b/w on newsprint anyhow.)

Nikolai

dlscott56 wrote: »

Just curious, how closely does the modelling light reflect the actual shape and fall off of light from the strobe? I know it's less power. The trouble I have with fine tuning my light setups with flashes is that I have to keep shooting, not just to fine tune power levels, but to get the positioning right as well.

Not as wysiwyg as continuos, but still very helpful. Although I mostly tend to "design" the lighting pattern in my head and then simply use a few test shots to fine tune if it does not look right the first time. Come through experience, though...

angevin1

dlscott56 wrote: »

I'm sure this must have been discussed in detail somewhere around here. Just can't find it. I just returned from a lighting workshop where they used continuous florescent lighting. It's the first time I've really had a chance to see it used. I have to say that it seemed pretty appealing to have a wysiwyg set up.

I also attended a Kelby seminar not too long ago where he suggested the Elinchrom BX500 lighting system.

Anyway, I'm currently saving my pennies for some more serious lighting equipment than my Lumopro 120 flashes and Cactus triggers. My goal is to get set up to do studio portrait photography and headshots and would like to know what your thoughts are?

Thanks in advance for your input.

I'd love to hear more about the Cont. Floro's. and what your experiences were.

I have several CFL softboxes that output 375 to 575w, "true watts", of power and did this little test comparing the light brightness.

NIKON D-90
f/8
ISO 320
Shutter 1/100
White Balance 5000K

dlscott56

angevin1 wrote: »

I'd love to hear more about the Cont. Floro's. and what your experiences were.

The photographer putting on the seminar was using the Westcott Spiderlite TD6 daylight balanced system. Now, I don't know what intensity he had everything set at all the time but do know that I had to shoot at ISO 400, f5.6, 1/80 or 1/100, to get a decent exposure. Using cheap glass though and zoomed out could not get below that fstop. Also with my non VR type lens, zoomed out to 100-200mm or so, hand held, competing with other attendees for space, had some focus issues.

Here are some set up and results shots. Other than cropping the only LR editing done was on BW shot. So, lighting was pleasing but I did notice, and was bothered by, the fact that my exposure settings seemed to need to be lower due to the light intensity of the fluorescent. White balance set using my Phoxle SpectraSnap disk.

Also worth noting is that the photographer really liked the light quality from these lights because of the cluster of frosted bulbs they produce a somewhat softer light using them bare than a strobe. I believe the second set below has all diffusion material removed from the softbox. The third set is definitely removed and he clamped the bottom edge of the box together suggesting it was similar lighting, except for catch light, to a beauty dish when used that way.

arodney

Nikolai summed it up nicely. I would suggest that if you are new to this game, start with continuous lighting so you learn to see the light which isn’t WYSIWYG with strobe (even with modeling lights). The design of the modeling light does play a role in how close it will match the flash. After learning the basis, move to flash.

As for any Kelby recommendation, do plenty of research on your own first! Selling stuff is a motivation IMOH.

dlscott56

arodney wrote: »

Nikolai summed it up nicely. I would suggest that if you are new to this game, start with continuous lighting so you learn to see the light which isn’t WYSIWYG with strobe (even with modeling lights). The design of the modeling light does play a role in how close it will match the flash. After learning the basis, move to flash.

As for any Kelby recommendation, do plenty of research on your own first! Selling stuff is a motivation IMOH.

Thanks Andrew. I have gotten quite a bit of experience with my Lumopro's, triggers, and a few modifiers (light boxes, grids, reflectors, and umbrellas) so feel like I'm at least somewhat past the beginning stuff. So, I'd kind of like to just decide which way I'm going (continuous vs strobe), research which type/brand once I've decided, and start making the investment in the lighting equipment.

Yep, I hear ya on the recommendations. I will try to do my due diligence on the research side before spending the money.

arodney

dlscott56 wrote: »

I will try to do my due diligence on the research side before spending the money.

In the end, any decent strobe system or hot light system will work fine. It is what you are comfortable with. In photo school, we spent the first year only working with hot lights. When we moved to strobe, which does have a lot of benefits, the actual make and model wasn’t all that important. I worked as a 1st assistant for a LA photographer and he used Balcar’s. In that job mode, he would describe the basic lighting setup and I would get the lighting done as he requested. Then he’d look at Polaroids (this was in the 80s) and tweak to produce the lighting he desired. I learned to refine light that way too but the bigger point is, when it came time to purchase my own strobes, I picked Balcar. Why? They were familiar. Could have been any other brand and the end results would have been pretty much the same. Later, at school, I would use my Balcar’s instead of the Speedotron’s because again, I was familiar with my strobes. Many students would buy Spedo’s because that is what they were familiar with. It didn’t really matter.

Find a good dealer who handles several makes and just ask to play with them. See if you like the controls (the UI if you will), weight, speed, etc. Buy from a good dealer who will support you and let you play with various systems. This is a much better way to go then to listen to a business man who thinks he’s a photographer and recommends a stobe system because of sponsorship monies or similar reasons. Stobes are EXPENSIVE as you know. As are all the add-on’s (soft boxes etc). But in the end, a photographer who understands good lighting techniques can use any manufacturer, strobe, hot lights or natural light.

dlscott56

arodney wrote: »

In the end, any decent strobe system or hot light system will work fine. It is what you are comfortable with. .... But in the end, a photographer who understands good lighting techniques can use any manufacturer, strobe, hot lights or natural light.

Good points. Thank you. That actually helped a lot. I've seen lots of photographers work that I've liked over the years and, now that I think about it, their lighting equipment varies widely. Whether they were using natural light, small strobes, continuous, or studio strobes, they all produced image/light quality that I would someday love to achieve. I may never be that good but in order to try I need to pick the tools I want to use and start getting comfortable with them.

Thanks Andrew.

Gary752

I had found a site that handles all types of studio lighting, but I don't remember if they handle different brands or just one. That site was www.lincostore.com if you want to check it out. From what I remember, their prices seemed pretty fair.

GaryB

dlscott56

BroPhoto wrote: »

I had found a site that handles all types of studio lighting, but I don't remember if they handle different brands or just one. That site was www.lincostore.com if you want to check it out. From what I remember, their prices seemed pretty fair.

GaryB

Thanks Gary, I'll check it out.

Gary752

This is the fluorescent light kit I purchased. I then added something like this. but they called it background lights at the time. When I purchased the second set, I made sure the color temp was the same as the first set that I had purchased, so they all matched. So in all, I have 5 lights available. The thing I liked about the first set I purchased, is that 2 of the lights have 4 bulbs and each bulb can be turned on or off seperately (each has its own switch), so you can control the light a little bit better. So in a nutshell, this is my lighting setup I am dying to put to use.

GaryB

dlscott56

BroPhoto wrote: »

This is the fluorescent light kit I purchased.

GaryB

Good luck Gary, can't wait to see how it works out for you.

Art Scott

Before I bought my 1st set of studio lights I had already helped a local 1 hr lab owner out in a studio in a backroom of the lab...
That was an Environmental Projection Systems Studio..... it used the florescent type lights, called Aurora Lights, to large for
location use, the lights that is.....i worked for a studio that had Lights powered from a power pack...did not care for the cables on the floor...
started looking at mono lights...and the biggest difference in the "name" brands was PRICE...then I ran across a wild looking ad for
something called White Lightnings ... ... the ad had a POP feel, like a Warhol image...so I investigated and for the price and the warranty
they could not be beat ... ... so I bought 4 of the WL5000's ... ... ... right around 30 yrs ago...they are still functioning with no problems... ...
I had one take a spill at a wedding and sent it in for repair... it was back in my hands in less than a week and that really hooked me.
At that time the Paul C Buff Company was relatively small and when you called Paul answered the phone nearly every time...customer
service was and is still a main priority ... recently I was looking for info and could not find it in the faqs or on their website....it was about 2am,
Sunday Morning, I shot off an email and went to bed... ... ... thinking it would be answered Monday or Tuesday... it was not time critical....
When I got up and checked emails before church...there was an answer from Paul himself..the reply time was 2:15am ... ... I do not think he ever sleeps...
or maybe customer service is his 1st priority... ... ... I still shop for lighting equipment even after ~~ 30 yrs of using Paul C Buff lights, but I still
find myself buying more of his lights ... ... and the main 2 reasons: 1- his customer service is really fantastic .... 2 the lights are manufactured in Nashville Tn,
we all know that 99% of all electronic components come from china, but the finished product is made in the US and i can call them directly, not a retail
store or import distributor, but the manufacturer if I have a problem... ... ... ...in ~ ~ 30 yrs of using the WL5000's I have had to have 2 repaired the cost
has never been higher than $50 ... ... which I was told was the standard fee, even if the light required a brand new total electronics replacement.

I am thinking it is about time to retire the WL5000's, 1800 Ultra and Alien Bees and move to Einsteins ... ...

dlscott56

Art Scott wrote: »

I am thinking it is about time to retire the WL5000's, 1800 Ultra and Alien Bees and move to Einsteins ... ...

That's good information Art. I have been spending a lot of time on the Paul C Buff Company website as of late. Still not quite there yet on money for all of this but hope to be soon and really like the looks of the Einsteins.