What the Heck is Street/PJ Photography?
Harryb
Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 22,708 Major grins
Hi Y'all,
There has been a little bit of discussion here of late over what is appropriate content for a forum with the title of "Street & PJ". I have already received a number of PMs about this. I think it would be helpful (to me at least) to get some feedback from y'all. This is your forum and in the end it will be what y'all make out of if. My main role will be to mop the floor and keep things orderly.
I have always viewed street photography as a documentary style of capturing candid moments in life. I got my first camera in 1957 (Kodak Brownie) and my first SLR while In Vietnam in 1968 (a Mamiya-Sekor). Instead of shooting the country side and action I was more interested in capturing moments.
First day in-country
I have always felt that B&W was the best medium for this style of shooting
but color works too at times
what didn't work for me was when I used processing to capture the moment I missed when I took the capture.
I took this in the Wall St area where I had a homeless man being ignored. Doesn't work for me
In short I view Street & PJ as documentary, candid, telling a story, capturing a moment with minimalistic processing.
There has been a little bit of discussion here of late over what is appropriate content for a forum with the title of "Street & PJ". I have already received a number of PMs about this. I think it would be helpful (to me at least) to get some feedback from y'all. This is your forum and in the end it will be what y'all make out of if. My main role will be to mop the floor and keep things orderly.
I have always viewed street photography as a documentary style of capturing candid moments in life. I got my first camera in 1957 (Kodak Brownie) and my first SLR while In Vietnam in 1968 (a Mamiya-Sekor). Instead of shooting the country side and action I was more interested in capturing moments.
First day in-country
I have always felt that B&W was the best medium for this style of shooting
but color works too at times
what didn't work for me was when I used processing to capture the moment I missed when I took the capture.
I took this in the Wall St area where I had a homeless man being ignored. Doesn't work for me
In short I view Street & PJ as documentary, candid, telling a story, capturing a moment with minimalistic processing.
Harry
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
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Comments
I have to ask--is Richard gone as our Moderator then?
EDIT--I see the sticky now--going to read it right now.
_________
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
It can get a little hairy ( pun intended ) dealing with strong and fiercely opinionated personalities. Pat us on the back when we've earned it and whack us on the butt when we get out of line.
You sure you want this job?
Tom
Nice stuff Harry.
PS: I don't think his reflection shot is selective color; looks like a gray snowy day for the capture of the day
The last image was selective color not the wall image.
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
yowser! those are so good!!!
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
1) What is photojouranlism?
2) What is street photography?
3) What taxonomy do the members of the forum wish to apply to images posted here?
== Photojournalism ==
Start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photojournalism
The photo editor I work with has given me a list of things I can and cannot do to a submitted image. He also defines a basic style 'guide' for me to follow. I still have creativity, but much less than when I'm simply shooting for myself. For post processing the staff is essentially restricted to: crop, light dodge/burn, light curves/levels, wb/exposure fixes. The image should be shot with a flat curve in the camera. Color. Beyond these, the technician has more restrictions for publication/printing. Stuff like no motion blur, etc.
If there was a hint, at all, that I had some how modified the pixels in an image... I would no longer be allowed to work with them. There is no second chance. It just ends. Game over. Please keep that in mind if you see a PJ post that you think may have been modified. You better have some strong evidence.
== Street Photography ==
Start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_photography
And be sure to catch this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straight_photography
This definition was developed in direct opposition to composite photography. Therefore, composite photography is not straight photography. It isn't wrong or bad. It is only the opposite. Street is not pictorialism. You can't argue pictorial photography is straight photography. They are exact opposites. Okay, I'll stop drilling in on this one. OPPOSITE!
== Taxonomy in the forum ==
We, the group, decide what gets attention and what doesn't. Every post we make in reply to an image, negative or positive, is an indication of its relevance to this forum. Every non-reply an indication of its irrelevance. Nothing hurts an image's chances more than being ignored. Frankly, if you don't think it fits here then don't say anything about it and it will go away. PM the mod. Don't post in the thread. It is how the technology works.
That said, posting to your own threads to "bump" them to the top is awfully uncool. If you keep "re-thinking" your image over and over, we are going to suspect you're playing us. The mods will probably take action. If you say something trollish to get attention, you will probably get it. Everyone who piles on is to blame for keeping the image front and center, and therefore decidedly relevant to the forum.
Last point: A great deal of what is posted here is pictorial. It isn't documentary. It is not straight photography. We, the group, have been okay with it. We give those types of high-contrast unrealistic post-processed images just as many accolades as cliché compliment combinations exist. So, this isn't an anti-pictorialsim forum.
Website | Galleries | Utah PJs
I still love that subway shot.
And your "wall" shot is really beautiful. I don't recall seeing it before. It reminds me of a little challenge we had here some time back titled "black & white in color". Had you submitted that shot I bet it would've easily beat out the chump who actually won!
.
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
Jesus Christ!!! Can I go to the bathroom now, teacher?
I'm glad this is a forum that accommodates a wide range of opinions and that we are free to express them. What I don't appreciate is someone who presupposes what my reaction will be to any given situation....and then goes on even further to intimate what my response should be. You would be well advised to speak for yourself and leave it at that.
Tom
Website | Galleries | Utah PJs
Do I want this Job? Well I'm retired and I do have some time on my hands. Plus modding two forums means my pay will be doubled.
Wildlife is too quiet. I have received more PMs in a day and half here than I have received from Wildlife in a year. The last time we had a good dust up in Wildlife was when a squirrel lover wandered in and took umbrage at my attitude towards hairy, disease ridden, bad attitude rodents.
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
It's good to be home...
things. But, I also accept images where the subject is doing something
that is not ordinary and the incongruity of that adds to the interest.
I'm a tolerant person, though, and my knickers don't get in a twist when
a regular poster here slips in an image of a family birthday party, a self-
portrait in reflection, a close relative doing something interesting or with
an interesting look, or even a creative montage based on at least one
original photograph.
If someone wants to get a little experimental, but normally does work
that falls within the mandate, it's no big deal to me. If I don't like it, I can
click to the next image with no harm done. The direction of the group
isn't going to be changed by the off-topic image here and there.
BD says that shooting street bums and the homeless are out-of-bounds
here for reasons of fish-in-the-barrel shooting, but I feel the same way
about people sitting at tables in, or outside of, restaurants. There has
to be some unique aspect to that image for it to interest me.
I question the need, Harry, to even ask the question you've asked
here. We're grown-ups capable of tying our own shoes and deciding
what we want to post here. The response will tell us if did it right
or not.
As an aside, I'll be looking forward to BD's response to your
selective color image. I'm still smarting from his acidic review
of my attempt last year of what I thought was a good image
of a flower vendor. I survived, though, and the group
survived.
http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/
Of course, I tell the students in both my writing and photo classes - where they also have to do some writing, that they can use Wikipedia to find source material, but if they site Wikipedia itself as a source...I will give them an F on the particular assignment.
"He not busy being born is busy dying." Bob Dylan
"The more ambiguous the photograph is, the better it is..." Leonard Freed
risotto di rodentia
Tony, my query was a seeking out of the views of participants here as to what they want this forum to be about. My role here is janitorial at best. This is your forum and y'all will be the final determinants of its sauces or failure. I've seen too much acrimony here at times over this issue and hopefully we can get past it.
As for BD's response if any to my selective coloring attempt it can be much worse than my own of my self described failure.
As for taking captures of the homeless, etc I have mixed feelings. It can be exploitive and it is similar to "shooting fish in a barrel". I have taken shots of them but I try to get their OK and interact with them.
He's a capture I got of Bobby
He approached me and said "I have a problem. I Like booze". He asked me for some change and I offered him a dollar if he'd let me take a picture. We agreed I took my shot and gave him the dollar which he promised to spend on booze. He also told me that other photographers had taken his picture but i was the first to pay him. I told him that his services were valuable and he should be paid what he was worth. I asked him if i could take another capture and he said OK but it would be $5. When I looked he surprised he said "You told me that I should be paid what I'm worth."
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Lensmole
http://www.lensmolephotography.com/
As you should.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Academic_use
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/06/15/wikipedia_can_damage_your_grades/
I figure it is about 80% credible. That is often good enough to make a point.
Website | Galleries | Utah PJs
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
I consider myself first and foremost a street shooter, and that's what will keep me active here. Life is a carnival; capturing and rendering it is just a whole lot of fun. But it's not anything to be solemn about. BD once pointed out that none of us is Garry Winogrand. The future of street™ photography® doesn't depend on what appears or doesn't appear on this forum or whether someone discreetly uses a clone stamp once in a while. The whole world isn't watching.
Reality is all well and good but is mostly banal; a little surreality can be refreshing. I'm not particularly artistic myself. Most of what I do fits comfortably within the traditional street photography mold, but I think it would be a mistake to exclude attempts at artistic reinterpretation of the street genre. Successful art can change the way you see the world, which can only be helpful to any photographer.
The other day, I noticed Dgrinner OhEddie's sig: Blessed are those who remain flexible, for they shall not get bent out of shape. I like that. You may not like NeilL's latest works, for example, but they're not going to give you cooties. Got constructive criticism? Give it. If not, just move along. Silence is the ultimate bad review.
I know for a fact that a number of talented shooters stopped participating here because the level of acrimony became unbearable. It's great the people are passionate about what they are doing, but I believe that a little more tolerance would go a long way. Dgrin is too small to reasonably support a forum for every niche.
Great points Richard. I particularly agree about the need to reduce the acrimony in this forum.
I have been modding wildlife for awhile now. I have definite opinions on what is wildlife photography and what isn't. Folks will occasionally post images of kitty cats, puppy dogs and even worse squirrels in Wildlife. Since we don't have a pets/rodents forum I grit my teeth and let them slide. Then some folks will post images of insects. Since we do have a forum for macro and Other Cool Shots those images I move to the appropriate forum.
Using Neill as an example I find his work innovative and very interesting. The issue comes down to are those images street/pj photography? Its not a question of liking or disliking those images but deciding which forum is the most appropriate for them. The future of photography will not be devastated if they are displayed in the street/pj forum or in other cool shots.
Viewing Neill's art I have to make the call that IMHO the most appropriate forum in Dgrin for them is Other Cool Shots.
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Argh, I can't believe I'm doing this. Aside from my opinion whether his shots are or aren't street, inclusive that I don't think it's ready for prime time as of yet, he warrants critique and insight. The problem might be that there's not a critical forum for art or interpretive photography. I have continued to work on my abstracts but I'm not going to be sharing them on DGrin for the previous reasons.
As to my views on the forum. There have been too many threads on "What is Street" You never here the question asked "What is PJ", some people have discussed it but it's never be a core question. Why? No one is interested beyond some practicing professionals as well as the historical definition of PJ being supplanted with Documentary today.
I feel many also feel challenged by a lack of density in their communities to explore street as a genre. But what we all have is the opportunity, if not the capability to document daily life around us. And it can be interesting and beautifully expressive.
I've never liked the Street & PJ designation. Simple as that. I decided to ignore it and just keep working on my stuff as I felt and post when I thought it wasn't complete crap or when I needed specific feedback.
I think the forum could use more thoughtful experimentation but in the form of what's envisioned in the camera and subject as opposed to recomposition or reconstruction in PP. Those sort of efforts play out better once assembled into a collection and presented thoughtfully by the artist.
Street
PJ
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
I used to include among my street posts, some candid "documentary" style shots of my family. They are unposed and they normally depict interaction between my family memembers. I also plan on posting documentary style shots of little league as I have done in the past.
Would that still be allowed here in PJ/street? I hope so as it is in this forum that I learned to shoot that way. I took what I learned in street and applied it to these type of shots.
From reading some of the posts in the last couple of days some feel strongly that perhaps they shouldn't be. What's the word?
a couple of examples.
1. A moment in the kitchen
2. teammates
_________
Definitions are always problematical. I'm not even going to attempt to define a photographic genre in my role here. What I have to define is what pictures/topics are the best fit for this forum under the available categories here at Dgrin. Hence this discussion thread.
I don't want to see this rehashed every time someone posts a picture in future threads. I'm hoping that discussions on picture posts will be confined to the merits of the posted picture and not if the image is "truly" street/pj.
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
I'm not big on rules. I only have one rule over on Wildlife which I'm not bringing over here. I have no problems with the examples you posted. There are really good BTW.
If BD can post dog pictures there is definitely room for candid family and little league captures.
I may have a problem if you start posting squirrel pictures though.
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
I remember when Yuri began posting obvious "Street" work in "People". The first thread was moved to Street & PJ where he quite clearly stated his interest was people. The rest of the series was also move from "People" to "Street" until the sixth when he prefaced the post to not move it as his interest is PEOPLE. Telling, eh?
Well you know something. My and I think your interest is also about people, but candidly captured in honest settings, truthfully told. I've been doing more commissioned shoots of couples or groups recently mainly because of the honest way I portray my subjects from my perspective. I'll probably share some in "People" shortly. That said, I'd hope this forum is mainly about PEOPLE, but not actively posed, along with the absurd or ambiguous.