Motorsports and Personal Use Release?

RacinRandy

I can across a mind boogling and interesting situation this week.

My Local Dirt Track, for which I am the Track Photographer, held a "Practice Day". While a fairly common practice it is a great opportunity to get fresh pictures of the brand new cars. This works great for photos for our annual yearbook.

It also allows me to get both sides of the cars for making "Driver Handout" prints. Compositing two images onto a customized background with names and hometowns for the drivers to "handout" to fans.
These are usually 4x6's and totally custom for each driver.

Now my dilemma comes in. One Driver approached me asking to by an image file(I'm cool with that). I told him they were $35 an image with a personal use license(to cheap?).

Now, He flipped out. Called me many expletives and told me "If I buy a picture you can't tell me how to use it.".

I agree to a point. If he was buying a picture, sure I wouldn't tell him how to hang it. But he wasn't buy a Picture, He wanted the file. Intentions for his website(that's cool), T-Shirts, Hats, Posters and Handout prints(all Not cool).

My Question now is, Am I within my rights in refusing him that "sale" as i believe his intended uses are a violation of my ownership and copyright?

If need be i can add the image in question to this post.

Your thoughts and opinions on this are greatly appreciated. Been doing this for a few years now and never had this kind of trouble before.

Thanks

bluesman graham

Hi Randy,
I know there are a lot of differences in copyright law over here in the UK but the basics are the same in that you can dictate usage of your images, you stipulated it was for personal use & that is totally within your rights & yes you can damn tell him what he can do with your image!!. I would have offered him a no limit use of image for $500 & said take it or leave it!.
Well done for sticking to your guns, there are too many iphone snappers willing to give away substandard images for a pat on the back so you've shown that quality costs!. Kind regards Graham.

mercphoto

You most certainly can limit how he can use a file. Its done all the time in photography. You own the copyright, and that gives you the right to dictate how that image can be used. If you don't want it to be used commercially that is your right. Period.

Besides, he isn't buying the picture, and certainly not buying the copyright. He's licensing the image for specific uses, in this case personal uses.

What does he want to do with the image he is buying? Give it to his sponsors so that they can use it in advertising?

RacinRandy

Hahaha Graham I would have offered a "Commercial License" for $175 if he had asked. Seeing as how he flew off the handle the way he did i am inclined to not do ANY business with him.


Bill, He would have used it to supply another photographer for use in sponsor thank you photos and handouts. Plus he planned on giving it to one of his sponsors for him to use in magazine ads. Sponsor thanks you prints and handouts are things I do and make money from and his sponsor should have to contact me and buy a license from me for that image/ad(My belief anyways).

Thanks for your opinions Guys. At least I know I'm not a man alone on an Island here(In principal anyways).

Keep the Opinions coming, I want to hear them all.

perroneford

Ask him why he doesn't buy a DVD at Best Buy and just make copies and hand them out to all his friends... Oh, because it's copywritten... just like your photos. Or why he doesn't double the size of the motor in that racing car of his. It's his, he bought it and should be able to do what the heck he pleases with it. Oh, but there's RULES to follow and he cannot just do whatever he wants even though he "bought it".

If it were me, he wouldn't get jack. I'd offer to work for him on contract for $1k and then he can have all the photos he wants. Or he's welcome to use another photographer. Good luck with that. People like that make me laugh.

MJRPHOTO

Walk away, no run away

Kikoprice

One less driver to shoot. Spend more time shooting his competition, make him wish he wasnt an a** to you.

RacinRandy

perroneford wrote: »

Ask him why he doesn't buy a DVD at Best Buy and just make copies and hand them out to all his friends... Oh, because it's copywritten... just like your photos. Or why he doesn't double the size of the motor in that racing car of his. It's his, he bought it and should be able to do what the heck he pleases with it. Oh, but there's RULES to follow and he cannot just do whatever he wants even though he "bought it".

If it were me, he wouldn't get jack. I'd offer to work for him on contract for $1k and then he can have all the photos he wants. Or he's welcome to use another photographer. Good luck with that. People like that make me laugh.

True, At the time I was to busy being stunned by his responses to laugh. I would add his responses if they weren't x-rated(seriously). Though the one response he made was "Take me off your site.... I'll be damned if you make a nickel off my pictures!" which actually made me laugh.

and for reference, the Image he asked about


Not my best work, I think I was just a touch off on shutter speed.

Photogbiker

Pr
You are absolutely in the right on all counts--as are the responses here--but I would just throw out a bit of caution. If the guy reacted that way he is obviously an ignorant hot-head, and these types don't have to be in the right to do damage. Hopefully other racers know that, but a jerk like this can spread negative comments just because of his ego. Has to win. Don't underestimate the damage someone who is in the wrong can do, and don't think being right is always going to protect you.

"If you are right yell it out, if you are wrong yell louder"

(I am sure his sponsors ad agency will back you up totally on the law and facts by the way. Maybe you sell it directly to them, they should know how to deal with photographers)

amadeus

RacinRandy wrote: »

I can across a mind boogling and interesting situation this week.

My Local Dirt Track, for which I am the Track Photographer, held a "Practice Day". While a fairly common practice it is a great opportunity to get fresh pictures of the brand new cars. This works great for photos for our annual yearbook.

It also allows me to get both sides of the cars for making "Driver Handout" prints. Compositing two images onto a customized background with names and hometowns for the drivers to "handout" to fans.
These are usually 4x6's and totally custom for each driver.

Now my dilemma comes in. One Driver approached me asking to by an image file(I'm cool with that). I told him they were $35 an image with a personal use license(to cheap?).

Now, He flipped out. Called me many expletives and told me "If I buy a picture you can't tell me how to use it.".

I agree to a point. If he was buying a picture, sure I wouldn't tell him how to hang it. But he wasn't buy a Picture, He wanted the file. Intentions for his website(that's cool), T-Shirts, Hats, Posters and Handout prints(all Not cool).

My Question now is, Am I within my rights in refusing him that "sale" as i believe his intended uses are a violation of my ownership and copyright?

If need be i can add the image in question to this post.

Your thoughts and opinions on this are greatly appreciated. Been doing this for a few years now and never had this kind of trouble before.

Thanks

I shoot motocross and I'm still not quite comfortable with having the "right" to photograph people without their permission and then have the "right" to sell a picture of someone to them or anyone else. When a racer straps on a helmet he isn't doing it for the benefit of a photographer and in that regard I haven't the slightest idea why a photographer has the "right" to photograph him or her without prior permission so I guess I take the drivers side.

perroneford

amadeus wrote: »

I shoot motocross and I'm still not quite comfortable with having the "right" to photograph people without their permission and then have the "right" to sell a picture of someone to them or anyone else. When a racer straps on a helmet he isn't doing it for the benefit of a photographer and in that regard I haven't the slightest idea why a photographer has the "right" to photograph him or her without prior permission so I guess I take the drivers side.

It's called public performance in a public place. Google "Expectation of privacy".

bobcool

amadeus wrote: »

I shoot motocross and I'm still not quite comfortable with having the "right" to photograph people without their permission and then have the "right" to sell a picture of someone to them or anyone else. When a racer straps on a helmet he isn't doing it for the benefit of a photographer and in that regard I haven't the slightest idea why a photographer has the "right" to photograph him or her without prior permission so I guess I take the drivers side.

perroneford wrote: »

It's called public performance in a public place. Google "Expectation of privacy".

I'd be willing to bet it's more than the usual "public place" rule. If this is a privately owned track and he's the official track photographer, then he's even more protected than usual. This is similar to an NFL player walking up to a sideline photographer and asking for an image file and flipping out when the photographer says he has to pay...

Randy - there's one thing you can do to really make this ironclad for you. The racers usually have to sign a waiver of some sort to race on your local track, correct? If so, I would recommend you ask that a photography clause be inserted into the waiver form that states that all photographs taken by the track photographer are copyrighted and cannot be used personally or commercially without the expressed written permission of the photographer, which may include usage fees. That way you have something in writing that each racer has signed.

perroneford

Exactly right bobcool. I forgot that he said he was acting in an official capacity. Your idea about the clause in the waiver is an excellent one.

RacinRandy

Photogbiker wrote: »

You are absolutely in the right on all counts--as are the responses here--but I would just throw out a bit of caution. If the guy reacted that way he is obviously an ignorant hot-head, and these types don't have to be in the right to do damage. Hopefully other racers know that, but a jerk like this can spread negative comments just because of his ego. Has to win. Don't underestimate the damage someone who is in the wrong can do, and don't think being right is always going to protect you.

"If you are right yell it out, if you are wrong yell louder"

(I am sure his sponsors ad agency will back you up totally on the law and facts by the way. Maybe you sell it directly to them, they should know how to deal with photographers)

He really is a "Snap case", very short fuse. There is another "Photographer" at the track and she has sold him image files.

I really have Zero problems digging out my phone and showing people the message stream with him about my images. They get to see exactly how he reacted. They can make the judgement for themselves from there.

RacinRandy

amadeus wrote: »

I shoot motocross and I'm still not quite comfortable with having the "right" to photograph people without their permission and then have the "right" to sell a picture of someone to them or anyone else. When a racer straps on a helmet he isn't doing it for the benefit of a photographer and in that regard I haven't the slightest idea why a photographer has the "right" to photograph him or her without prior permission so I guess I take the drivers side.

One of the things for you to look at is their "License application". Most all forms of motorsports require some sort of license to participate. In this case the drivers have to be "licensed" by the sanctioning body. Line #6 of the License application reads "6. I agree to release all advertising and promotional rights to my name, car and likeness to WISSOTA, its sponsors and affiliated media including, but not limited to, All The Dirt! Racing News.".

With that being done, my capacity as the tracks official photographer makes me an affiliated photographer. If that isn't enough I also hold a valid, current and in good standing press pass from All the Dirt! racing News(the paper published and distributed by the sanctioning body). I regularly contribute to other area media outlets and online racing news sources which reimburse me for my images as well.

These are the reasons that, i believe, I can and do limit a persons usage of images I own. HTH

RacinRandy

bobcool wrote: »

I'd be willing to bet it's more than the usual "public place" rule. If this is a privately owned track and he's the official track photographer, then he's even more protected than usual. This is similar to an NFL player walking up to a sideline photographer and asking for an image file and flipping out when the photographer says he has to pay...

Randy - there's one thing you can do to really make this ironclad for you. The racers usually have to sign a waiver of some sort to race on your local track, correct? If so, I would recommend you ask that a photography clause be inserted into the waiver form that states that all photographs taken by the track photographer are copyrighted and cannot be used personally or commercially without the expressed written permission of the photographer, which may include usage fees. That way you have something in writing that each racer has signed.

Very good points!!
All entrants to the "Pit Area" have to sign that waiver at the entry gate. I will definitely look at ours to see how it is worded but i believe there is a release, similar to the license application one. in it already. I will double check for sure though.