$$ for used Heliopan variable ND filter? Adorama sent a used filter.

JC

I took a big splurge and bought a Heliopan variable ND filter (bought for my largest filter size, with step up rings for my smaller lenses, thought it would end up being cost efficient over all, even if it is a lot upfront all at once).

I bought it from Adorama, and it was supposed to be new. I paid full price for it at least, and it wasn't graded as used at all.

I received a used filter. The case was not sealed, was heavily scratched up and cracked. I think it was missing some padding, because the filter had room to slide around and bang into the sides of the hard case. The filter is really dusty, I won't know how dirty until I get home and can clean it. It's definitely got dust all over it, and some oily residue on the filter surface, and some minor wear.

Unfortunately, Adorama customer service is closed for the weekend, and I can't talk to them until Monday I guess. I would want to use it this weekend, so my preferred resolution to this would be for them to discount my purchase price, so I can use it in good conscience. I'm trying to figure out what a fair discounted price would be, but I can't find any used Heliopan variable ND filters out there anywhere (KEH, Adorama-used, Ebay). The closest I can find on Adorama's webpage is a 77mm circular polarizer, and they seem to have applied a %45 discount on that for an E condition.

Anyone got any ideas of a fair discount for a used filter of this sort?

Andy

Why not wait for Helen Oster from Adorama to show up here, and resolve it properly with them? I'm sure they'll do the right thing, and I'm also certain that Helen will appear here.

JC

Andy wrote: »

Why not wait for Helen Oster from Adorama to show up here, and resolve it properly with them? I'm sure they'll do the right thing, and I'm also certain that Helen will appear here.

I'm hoping to have some sort of idea of what would be fair, so that I can ease my mind that it's ok to use it this weekend....;)

and then ask for them some reasonable refund on Monday. Does Helen come by here after hours on her own time?

Sam

Listen to Andy. Adorama will do what's right.

One thing though.......................A story like yours always sets off warning bells for me. Not saying your are scamming, but large high volume vendors probably get stuff like this on a regular basis.

"Mr vendor the product I ordered came and is scratched, dirty, oily, and looks like it has been used. Can I keep this product (my words, piece of damaged junk) and get a handsome discount?"

If it ain't right get a new one. If it's OK keep it and use it.

Sam

JC

Sam wrote: »

Listen to Andy. Adorama will do what's right.

One thing though.......................A story like yours always sets off warning bells for me. Not saying your are scamming, but large high volume vendors probably get stuff like this on a regular basis.

"Mr vendor the product I ordered came and is scratched, dirty, oily, and looks like it has been used. Can I keep this product (my words, piece of damaged junk) and get a handsome discount?"

If it ain't right get a new one. If it's OK keep it and use it.

Sam

well, by paraphrasing my words back to me with your own spin, you kind of are implying I'm scamming...

Which is why I wish Adorama had weekend customer service, or customer service that didn't close mid-morning Fridays ( Pacific time). I couldn't contact them when I first opened the package. I bought the filter primarily for a backpacking trip in July, so I could just return it and ask for a guaranteed new one, but I would like to use it this weekend, which is where the whole 'good conscience' thing come in.

Photogbiker

back to Start...
Sam is making a good point that while you may be looking for an honest and fair resolution, he suggests large retailers probably hear this from less savory buyers also. Since it is impossible to distinguish via email, although your posting here is a point in favor, I think the best bet is to return it for exchange for a new one. Talk to them about your concerns and that you want one that is new and not "new old stock" or dragged behind a mule in delivery. Finding a used filter of this caliber is very difficult. People buy them and keep them even if they change lenses.

Talk to Helen Monday. Never seen Adorama not resolve an issue with even half reasonable buyers.

Andy

kolibri wrote: »

Which is why I wish Adorama had weekend customer service, or customer service that didn't close mid-morning Fridays ( Pacific time). I couldn't contact them

They are observant Jews. Deal with it. They'll be around Sunday through next Shabbat.

Sam

kolibri wrote: »

well, by paraphrasing my words back to me with your own spin, you kind of are implying I'm scamming...

Which is why I wish Adorama had weekend customer service, or customer service that didn't close mid-morning Fridays ( Pacific time). I couldn't contact them when I first opened the package. I bought the filter primarily for a backpacking trip in July, so I could just return it and ask for a guaranteed new one, but I would like to use it this weekend, which is where the whole 'good conscience' thing come in.

I didn't mean to suggest YOU were scamming, only that it could easily appear that way.

Sam

perroneford

Dealing with Adorama has been interesting for me as well. I was recently shipped an item that was missing a part. I ordered on a Monday with 2 day express shipping. Item arrived Wednesday, I contacted customer service on Wednesday, and got a response Friday morning. I have a shoot tomorrow (Sunday afternoon). It is difficult for me, as a professional, to try to order products a week in advance and then not have them. I had another item in the same order that was essentially unusable for purchase and told them as much. I am sure they reviewed my purchases and have seen that I've pushed more than $10k to them in the past 6 months, so no scamming going on there. I just need my stuff as I am sure others do.

The questions I have are WHY would Adorama ship a used filter? And in my case, why would they ship an incomplete part? Where is the accountability by the person packing the box or preparing the order? These things should never happen. They shake my confidence and the confidence of other buyers. And posts like this and others I have seen recently in some very high profile places, can truly affect sales. I had been very happy using Adorama's primary competitor for years and have pushed over $100k through their doors. I used Adorama recently because of their excellent used inventory.

If Helen does indeed come into this thread, I hope Kolibri's issue can be satisfactorily resolved. But I would ask her to take a message back. And that is, while we as buyers like and appreciate Adorama, they seem to be slipping as of late, and many pros I know have noticed it and are beginning to shop elsewhere. When your $10-20k annual buyers start to leave, that's bad news for ANY photography/electronics business.

JC

Andy wrote: »

They are observant Jews. Deal with it. They'll be around Sunday through next Shabbat.

I understand that. this IS how i deal with things, I try to do research to find out as much as possible.

I was just looking for factual information. Say, maybe, someone had information about a comparable item, or if they could tell me that Adorama makes a habit of selling returns or open box items without notice, etc, I've only bought from them a handful of times.

I guess I'll just keep it in the box and return it on Monday, either for exchange or not.

HelenOster

kolibri wrote: »

I took a big splurge and bought a Heliopan variable ND filter....from Adorama, and it was supposed to be new. I paid full price for it ....I received a used filter.
Anyone got any ideas of a fair discount for a used filter of this sort?

Please accept my deepest apologies for the frustration and disappointment this has caused; unfortunately, it isn't possible for me to ID your transaction from your posting, without an order number. If you would like to email me directly: Helen@adorama.com, I will of course give this my immediate attention.


There is a possibility that this unit was taken out of the box in-store to show to a customer, but without further details it isn't possible for me to confirm - but I can assure you that we DO NOT ever intentionally send out used goods as new. As with all other decent retailers, we return faulty or used items to the vendor for a partial credit, or sell them as open box or used.
However, as the vendors allow retailers to return equipment as new, because of over-stocks, exchanges etc. there is no doubt that unscrupulous or careless retailers could package up customer returns and send them back to the manufacturer as new, which could then form part of the inventory for sending out to other retailers. We can’t inspect the contents of the packages received into the warehouse – or they become ‘open box’.
If the manufacturer doesn't check the equipment before sending it back out, from the customer's perspective it is the retailer who looks bad, even though it may well have not been their fault.

At Adorama we do have liberal return policies and there is no doubt that on occasion this is taken advantage of - however we are clear that this does not exempt us from checking any and all returns, but some retailers don't. The problem is that we are all relying upon humans to carry out the required procedures at every point in the transaction, which can, and does, result in mistakes at any place along the line.

If a returned item is not in MINT condition it will be transferred to a store bin as a demo or floor model, sold as open box, returned to the vendor or sold via our used department.

If an Adorama customer has any concerns of any kind about a unit purchased from our website, we offer a 30-day returns period; you only need email or call in to our customer service department - or contact me directly.
So please email me some pictures of the filter before you actually use it. Then go ahead and use it for your shoot - and then as soon as is convenient drop me an email with your order number: Helen@adorama.com
We can then discuss whether it makes more sense for you to return it to us or for us to offer you a discount to hold onto it.

HelenOster

perroneford wrote: »

I was recently shipped an item that was missing a part. I ordered on a Monday with 2 day express shipping. Item arrived Wednesday, I contacted customer service on Wednesday, and got a response Friday morning. I have a shoot tomorrow (Sunday afternoon)....... I had another item in the same order that was essentially unusable for purchase and told them as much. ......why would they ship an incomplete part? Where is the accountability by the person packing the box or preparing the order?

I'm so very sorry - both for the shipment missing a part and for a 2-day delay in responding to you. Unless I'm away from my desk I expect to respond to all enquiries the same day, so please hold onto my details in case you ever need help in the future. Could you please forward me both your original email to our CS department and the response you received?

I'd like to understand more about what went wrong with the picking and packing order itself but without more info about I can't really be certain; it all depends whether the unit was missing a part which should have been included in the box (manufacturer fault) or whether it was an item which should come out in 2 separate cartons (shippers mislaid one in transit - or our bar coding system) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKwydXTTIKo&feature=related

This video includes a section on how items are picked in the DC.

So, if you could let me have your order number I can start looking into what went wrong, hopefully put it right for you as quickly as possible – and very important, do whatever I can to ensure that this isn’t repeated.

ziggy53

Thanks Helen. thumb

Sam

Helen's response is what I have come to expect. I think both B&H and Adorama are two of the best large retail operations I have dealt with.

Sam

perroneford

I have sent Helen a detailed account of my issue. I hope Kolibri does the same.

JC

HelenOster wrote: »

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There is a possibility that this unit was taken out of the box in-store to show to a customer, but without further details it isn't possible for me to confirm - but I can assure you that we DO NOT ever intentionally send out used goods as new. As with all other decent retailers, we return faulty or used items to the vendor for a partial credit, or sell them as open box or used.
However, as the vendors allow retailers to return equipment as new, because of over-stocks, exchanges etc. there is no doubt that unscrupulous or careless retailers could package up customer returns and send them back to the manufacturer as new, which could then form part of the inventory for sending out to other retailers. We can’t inspect the contents of the packages received into the warehouse – or they become ‘open box’

Thanks Helen. I don't want to beat this subject to death in this thread, but I did more googling for Heliopan filter and packaging, and this thread already pops up as ~ the third search result (for me at least, don't know how much customizing Google does), so I thought i should come back here.

There are a couple of reviews of this filter out there that say the same thing about the packaging, open, not sealed, lots of debris on the filter and threads, and with insufficient packing to keep the filter from sliding around in its box during shipping, so I don't know if the problem is with Adorama, or with the manufacturer or distributor. It just seems really wrong to ship a filter this expensive halfway around the world, in a case that allows the filter to slide around in three different direction.

perroneford

I will say that for my part, Adorama have bent over backwards to try to resolve my issues. I could not be more pleased with Helen and the other customer service staff. They've earned a lot of respect from me over the past few days.

HelenOster

kolibri wrote: »

...There are a couple of reviews of this filter out there that say the same thing about the packaging, open, not sealed, lots of debris on the filter and threads, and with insufficient packing to keep the filter from sliding around in its box during shipping.....

I've asked the DC manager to open up a couple of these (under controlled conditions) and report back what he finds in relation to both the appearance of the filters, and the vendor packaging.
I've also requested stats on returns of this item with the problems you've described.
If we find that this appears to be a manufacturer issue then we will for sure be following up with them for an explanation, and a commitment to address it.

perroneford wrote: »

I will say that for my part, Adorama have bent over backwards to try to resolve my issues. I could not be more pleased with Helen and the other customer service staff. They've earned a lot of respect from me over the past few days.

Thank you; there was indeed an error of judgement by a staff member as the DC manager explained, and hopefully the missing part will be with you, shortly.

Thank you

skifish76

Same problem, dirty heliopan filter from Adorama!
Well, I figured I would splurge and buy a 77mm Heliopan filter for my $2,500 lense (makes me feel good kinda thing). I ordered it from Adorama and paid the $$ to have it sent overnight air (btw...rush orders are lost on these guys since orders don't get out of the warehouse for a day and a half). When my order arrived I was sorely disappointed that the filter case was not sealed and the filter was coated with a fine dust on both sides.

HelenOster

skifish76 wrote: »

Well, I figured I would splurge and buy a 77mm Heliopan filter for my $2,500 lense (makes me feel good kinda thing). I ordered it from Adorama and paid the $$ to have it sent overnight air (btw...rush orders are lost on these guys since orders don't get out of the warehouse for a day and a half). When my order arrived I was sorely disappointed that the filter case was not sealed and the filter was coated with a fine dust on both sides.

Can you please email me with your order number and if possible, a picture of the filter: Helen@adorama.com

BTW US orders for in-stock items that are received before 8pm ET are shipped the same day - unless there are ID verification issues.

HelenOster

A quick update; although I haven't yet heard from 'skilfish', I shared his comments with our Distribution Center Manager. He personally checked several filters in stock, and actually found that they all appeared to be a little dusty - and that in his opinion the manufacturer packaging could be improved upon. He has asked the Adorama purchasing department manager to forward these complaints on to the mmanufacturer.

ziggy53

Thanks for following up on this, Helen.

HelenOster

We have received a response from the vendor, advising us that they are currently working on new packaging. However, apparently, the internal foam is a problem, because if the filter is packed too tightly into the case the mount will leave a round ring or an arc on the inside of the box. If they do not put in as much foam, the filter can shift around and rub on the film and leave those dust type particles on the filter.....

All of this is being considered at the factory for new packaging.

Additionally, we are advised that boxes are never sealed, so that retailers can open the packages to show to customers. Apparently, there have actually been so many complaints that Rodenstock filters are sealed, that they are going to stop using sealing tape!

Finally, we have been assured that all the filters we receive are brand new and have never been previously sold - we have never been sent used or demo filters as new.