Just curious about your photography viewpoint
Hello folks...I noticed many here strive for people photographic perfection (perfect subjects, technical aspects, and composition). For people photography (which is my subject 99% of the time), I tend to land at 3/4 of the way on the perfection spectrum. Btw, my clients are normal everyday people. I don't shoot commercially.
Where do you land at?
Where do you land at?
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I do believe there is a difference between shooting commercially and shooting professionally.
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I think I understand the question, and yes a pro shooting a model for a full page spread Cover Girl ad may be a bit more of a 'perfectionist' than someone shooting a high school senior, but that to me that is almost as different as a photojournalist and a nature photog. The client and the viewing public are looking for different things when they view the picture. I am not sure 'perfectionist' is the right word really when you boil it down.
As to the underlying theme of "perfection", I do think that is what we all should strive for when accurately applied to the genre or subject matter. I really enjoy seeing a great picture here (or posting one) and then one of the more accomplished folks says--in a positive way--that it might be improved with the strand of hair cloned out, etc. Then I take a new look and think they are absolutely right, why didn't I see that? There are a lot of factors to success in the portrait business and different paths to get there, but all of the top people in your hometown or nationally are probably "perfectionists" in their own genre. The skin or lighting may not look like the Cover Girl ad, but it better be correct for the subject and not have distractions, errors, stray hairs, etc. to be really top quality work. Often those details are what separates a good shot from a great one, and usually in a "I don't know what it is, this one just looks more professionall" kind of way.
Those details are not nit picking, and saying to oneself "they are just a perfectionist" is an excuse to do less than one's best. Yes, the client might have been extremely happy (and they should be) but if you learn and gain a critical eye to make the slight improvements your photography improves and that is what Dgrin is all about. When I first started perusing this site I assumed it was a bunch of amateurs like me sharing average to good pics, but when I saw the shots and the excellent critique I became a fan.
I am definitely not a perfectionist and just an amateur still after 30 years, but every time I shoot a portrait I look for what I could improve next time. Doesn't mean the shot was a cull, just means I want to constantly improve. Never tell yourself "its good enough" or a critic "is being a perfectionist", learn and grow. Seeing critiques here has pushed me out of a rut of very nice work that friends/clients really liked, to wanting to take it up a notch.
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Technical aspects are nice, but a great expression trumps all.
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Agree with this wholeheartedly.
I'll also say, that there really is no reason not to be striving for perfection in photography if you love it.
Edit: Of course, this is where the context of the situation becomes a factor. Both of these photos I think are wholly inadequate to say, be on the cover of sports illustrated: roller derby edition (if that issue ever happens).
True...for me, I have a self imposed post-shoot workflow time limit and I make a conscious effort to make images not 'too perfect'.
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I think the things we look for in "perfection" vary from photographer to photographer, and experience level to experience level. So, to be honest, I would not stop working on an image in post processing until I felt it was relatively close to the best it could be, but I'm not looking for the same things a landscape photographer is...something I have no familiarity with at all.
If your creating images for the love of it and strictly for yourself not striving for the best is ok. However some will want to start charging for their images and at that point we have an obligation to create the best possible image we can for the client.
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A bit of a side point, 3/4 is 75% which in an academic setting is a middle "C".
Would you knowingly go to a doctor who graduated med school with "C's"?
So why would you get your portraits done by a photographer who professes to produce "C" work?
Just a question for the universe...
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unemployable Doctor.
Poor analogy, but I think I get your trying to say.
I strive for just shy of perfection but work within self-imposed "rules".
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Say you charge $200 for an ~1 hour on-site portrait session. How much effort pre and post shoot are you providing to fulfill your "obligation to create the best possible image"? Do you have an assistant? How much gear do you bring?
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Troopers, as I read through your responses, I feel like you have a very defined personal cost per hour for your own services and don't want to put in time/effort beyond that. Given that photography is an artistic pursuit, I personally don't think it can be entirely reduced to cost per hour, but that's just me; I know many photographers feel as you do.
If that's the case, however, then I think you have an obligation to be MORE "technically perfect" getting your images right in camera. Less post-processing time and just a case of upload and done. (For somebody who seems to nail this, check out Josh Martinez's images in the 5d3 threads - breathtaking SOOC images. And, while the new camera may be making his life easier with some new technologies and tools, I have NO DOUBT AT ALL that he could achieve the same results with any camera. Dude can SHOOT.)
Btw, I'd say that gear and assistants are "overhead" - a necessary part of the job, and if you have a strictly defined bottom line, then you have to factor them into your pricing just like you would gas/travel/overnight stays.
Technical excellence is having the skills to know what to do, and the ability to use them under pressure, no matter what the conditions. I'd venture to suggest that any top photographer could deliver good images regardless of what they were shooting with, and how many assistants were there to make the job easier. They have the eye, the skillset and the "grace under fire" to be able to deliver. If that's what "perfect" means, then yeah - keep working towards it. We all should be.
If by "perfect" you mean spending hours on post-processing and re-inventing every nose hair and tree, then I think that's something else again - it's a kind of photography that's more closely-related to "fine art", and would have a different set of parameters as far as time involved than a typical portrait session or even commercial shoot (high-end commercial shoots send the retouching out. And the client pays for the privilege
When I first started, I sucked and perfection was the goal...nothing was out of place, not a single strand of hair, lighting was ideal, etc. I spent hours, up to 3 or 4 times photo session length, pre and post shoot to achieve the perfect image. Then two things happened: 1. per some clients, my images were 'too perfect', meaning the images felt staged, artificial, lacking emotion/soul, etc. and 2. it started to get no fun. Soon, I realized that caputuring one's slight imperfect nature is what makes an image perfect. Nowadays, I don't work with an assistant, only bring gear that I can with one trip, and limit computer time equal to the session time, which includes dowloading, PP, uploading, etc.
I do try to get everything right in the camera...there's really no reason why any photographer shouldn't be doing that.
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Also please note I can't really figure out what your question is or what your hoping to get in responses.
I am also not sure how you can maintain any strict post processing time limit. Getting it right in camera is of course a good thing, but what happens when you miss? What if in order to deliver an acceptable product to your client it's necessary to spend two or three times your arbitrary self imposed time limit on post processing?
Sam
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My website is under renovation (I screwed up trying to customize my storefront here on smugmug...going with a smugmug certified customizier). You can check out my recently lauched FB page here (finally decided to get with the social media scene).
I'm just curious to see where other smuggers are on the perfection spectrum. To be specific, I'll ask you the same question...Say you charge $200 for an ~1 hour on-site portrait session. How much effort pre and post shoot are you providing to fulfill your "obligation to create the best possible image"? Do you have an assistant? How much gear do you bring?
Obviously, if I missed every shot on the shoot, then I'm doomed. But fortunately, I haven't. If I miss a shot or two, there's been a shot or two that nails.
At the end, I'm pleased if my clients are happy with the images.
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As a photographer you have basically two things you are selling. Time and talent. Streamlining your workflow process to provide a quality product in a reasonable amount of time is what makes the difference between making a profit or not.
Running a photography business is just that, a business. The time spent behind the camera is just a small part of what is involved in running a successful business.
The business model I have worked out shows that in order to earn 50,000.00 per year on photography services, I need to do about 80,000.00 per year in sales. To use your fictional 45.00 customer, I would need to photograph 1778 customers in a year to produce 80,000.00 in sales. Now, as you suggest, if it takes me 4 hours per customer to provide this product, I would have to work 136 hours a week (providing I take no vacation time) to attain my sales goals. However, if I can find a way to provide acceptable service for this fictional 45.00 customer in say a half an hour I can take two weeks off a year and still work on average 18 hours a week on the actual photography end of the business.
After digesting the above, does anyone want to re think the amount of time they spend in post processing?
Probably best for another thread...but my business model is that my fee excludes prints, but includes full size digital images. Never thought it was fair when I was on the other side. If a client wants prints, it's my cost plus 10%.
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I'm with you Bryce. Good thing this is my side gig.
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Basically I am a mission orientated guy. Once I understand what the client wants and we have agreed on price and terms. It is up to me to deliver. I don't normally take assistants but will if necessary. As far as gear is concerned, I take more than I need. Doesn't do any good in the closet.
The amount of time and effort to deliver has no restrictions whatsoever. It is up to me to develop an efficient workflow to accomplish the task. If for what ever reason it takes me longer than I anticipated, it's my problem not the clients.
Sam
Is $200 you session fee, is it the total they must purchase or both.
For me every hour I shoot I spend about an hour on the computer. I really need to cut that down but I'm also trying to sell albums to the seniors so I want to knock their socks off with retouched prints. I don't do all but I do about 30 and at times I can hit 3 min per file if it needs it, some less.
On a "walkabout" (outdoor session) I take two cameras, three lens, two speed flashes, one stand for speed flash, plus my rolling cart that has a battery, softbox, stand and 1600 watt head, changing tent, a reflector or two and some drinks.
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