Pro Wildlife Photographer Seeking Opinions On Site
Lemur Lover
Registered Users Posts: 180 Major grins
In just under a couple of weeks my Pro SmugMug membership will be a year old, and though I fully intend on renewing it, thus far we haven't made so much as a bean by way of our website online.
I am a professional wildlife photographer and my only source of income is derived from sales of my printed work through our fine art photo gallery up at our local zoo, which we opened in February of this year. Although unfortunately we've now entered what's considered the low season here in Thailand, for the first couple of months we were open, and people were around, we were making sales, so I know my work is at least saleable, even if we've yet to make a monthly income that covers our monthly expenditures :wink
There are a number of other ideas I'm working on and plans I have, all related to my photography, that will hopefully help to bring in sufficient income - allowing me to continue on living my dream - and eventually lead to that crucial milestone in any business, a little thing called profit
:
Having gotten in touch with SmugMug's excellent support team, I've been given a list of things I can work on that, in their experience, will greatly enhance the chances of our website being discovered and, thereby, help us break into online sales. And, though I'd already invested countless hours creating a website that I felt was attractive in content and style, I've industriously worked on this list of suggestions over the past week or so, and will continue to do so until every step is complete.
However, SmugMug's suggestions aside, I'm wondering whether anyone else has any other suggestions particularly for attracting and selling to people interested in wildlife prints. If anyone here has experience with online sales of Nature, bird, and animal photography, I'd greatly appreciate you taking a looking at our website (link in my signature below) and offering thoughts and opinions.
Thank you for your time and consideration in advance!
I am a professional wildlife photographer and my only source of income is derived from sales of my printed work through our fine art photo gallery up at our local zoo, which we opened in February of this year. Although unfortunately we've now entered what's considered the low season here in Thailand, for the first couple of months we were open, and people were around, we were making sales, so I know my work is at least saleable, even if we've yet to make a monthly income that covers our monthly expenditures :wink
There are a number of other ideas I'm working on and plans I have, all related to my photography, that will hopefully help to bring in sufficient income - allowing me to continue on living my dream - and eventually lead to that crucial milestone in any business, a little thing called profit
:Having gotten in touch with SmugMug's excellent support team, I've been given a list of things I can work on that, in their experience, will greatly enhance the chances of our website being discovered and, thereby, help us break into online sales. And, though I'd already invested countless hours creating a website that I felt was attractive in content and style, I've industriously worked on this list of suggestions over the past week or so, and will continue to do so until every step is complete.
However, SmugMug's suggestions aside, I'm wondering whether anyone else has any other suggestions particularly for attracting and selling to people interested in wildlife prints. If anyone here has experience with online sales of Nature, bird, and animal photography, I'd greatly appreciate you taking a looking at our website (link in my signature below) and offering thoughts and opinions.
Thank you for your time and consideration in advance!
0
Comments
I think your site is suffering from something that nearly every home grown website suffers from, a clear definition of its intended audience. The truth of the matter is that you simply can't be everything to everybody. The vastness of the internet just doesn't allow for that. You need to be real specific in your target and go after them. The hidden benefit of that vastness of the internet is that really its ok to have a tight focus as you only really need a small slice of a very very big pie.
That all being said, lets look at a couple of things I noticed from your website.
1. The fine art concept.
Your images are amazing, no doubt. However if you are looking to sell them as fine art online (online being the key here), what types of buyers are you looking for?
You have your galleries mostly divided up by animal and even by area. So is the person you are trying to see to going to come to your site thinking that they wish to purchase an image of a primate from Malaysia? If so, then great. If not...
I see many of your images are similar, wonderful and amazing, but similar. So think again, if you are looking to sell as fine art, and you were to hang them on the gallery wall, would you have an image of the same monkey in slightly different poses hanging around the gallery?
As a consumer, when I buy art, I go into the gallery and I expect to see nothing but the absolute best work. I'd expect portfolio pieces only to be hanging on the gallery wall to be sold as fine art.
2. Stock Photography
Your site has a hint of stock photography to it. I say this because of some of the duplication of images as well as how the navigation has been categorized. I know very little about stock photography, but I think I'd expect a lot more keywords to be added if you were looking for buyers to find images they are looking for to be placed in magazines or something.
Its so common to try to sell anything to anyone anywhere, but that model just doesn't work well on the internet unless you are amazon or ebay. I'd spend the most time thinking about your ideal visitors. Are you trying to sell prints for people to put in their homes? In their offices? Think about that when you look at your images. If you have images where maybe a monkey is showing more of themselves then one would like to see, it might not make for a good image in the living room.
I think you'd be amazed at how you'll see your site when you try to see it from the eyes of the person you have created. You'll look at your fonts, text, colors and images very differently.
Anyway, my 2 cents. Take it or leave it.
Lenses: Nikon 70-200 f/2.8 VR II | Nikon 24-70 f/2.8 | Nikon 50mm f/1.4
Lighting: SB-910 | SU-800
I'll agree. It's more vacation stock than "fine art" to me. Most images are "here's a bear", "here's an elephant", "here's a lizard". They're illustrative, but not necessarily emotive. They're all brightly lit and most are focused across the scene. There's nothing I saw that I'd particularly want to hang on a wall.
Hi Garrin,
First and foremost, thank you for taking an interest and for sharing your candid thoughts and opinions.
It's not always easy accepting critique, but as long as it's constructive then at least it allows me to pull back from my current view point allowing me to regard things from a broader perspective, which for the most part is what your comments have encouraged me to do.
In truth, the greatest miscall I made was deciding to categorise my work in general as “fine art”, and ironically it's the one thing in all I've done so far that I felt least comfortable with; I should have listened to my instincts and abandoned that particular tag.
While this is not an attempt to defend my decision – which I now readily accept as being a poor choice – I guess somewhere in the back of my mind my desire to be more of an artist rather than simply a photographer is what nudged my thought process just enough over the line to brand my work as fine art.
I also think your point that my site lacks a clear purpose is well-founded, and that's definitely something I need to think on and rectify.
While again not aiming to take a defensive stance, I would like to address a few of your other points just to clarify my thinking.
You asked, “ … if you are looking to sell as fine art, and you were to hang them on the gallery wall, would you have an image of the same monkey in slightly different poses hanging around the gallery?”
Assuming this question is not restricted to monkeys as subjects, the answer to that is, in many case (though not all), yes I would. One of the main things I endeavour to achieve with my photography is to tell something of a story, and sometimes, when I've taken a series of shots, I feel this can be best accomplished by displaying a sequence of four, here are a few examples that that will hopefully illustrate what I mean:
http://natureimpressions.smugmug.com/Animals/Primates-Madagascar/i-7MkgS49/1/L/Verreauxs-Sifaka-I-L.jpg
http://natureimpressions.smugmug.com/Animals/Predators-Thailand/i-pK6qR2R/1/L/Natural-Instincts-L.jpg
http://natureimpressions.smugmug.com/Animals/Predators-South-Africa/i-Qcj5zcG/2/L/Claiming-the-Waterhole-L.jpg
Given further reflection, I'd have to agree that presented like this it's not a good representation of fine art and, given the opportunity to display a collection of my work in a recognised fine art gallery, I certainly wouldn't include my “story” in this format, however, I would readily have any of these blown up large single frames hanging side by side. Granted though, fine art gallery owners and collectors may well take a different view!
In general I do agree that regardless of how I brand my work, I probably have too many images on display on my website that are quiet similar, and this is something that's also been mentioned to me before and something I had already intended on sorting out. Perhaps the greatest challenge of all for me is trying to decide on what I feel is my “best work”; certainly there are a number that really stand out and there are others I should have removed from my galleries months ago, all the same, for much of my work the line between what is very good and that which is average, to my eye is far from clear.
I'm beginning to appreciate that having more of a defined purpose with my website will probably help in my selection making process, so that's really one of the first things on my what-to-tackle-next list.
Although I can understand and accept that you, and perhaps others that have come across my site, left with the impression that I was aiming to build up a stock photography library, fact is that's one road I'd firmly decided I didn't wish to travel right from the get go. So of course your bringing this to light has helped a great deal to reinforce the point that less of similar shots would work more in my favour.
Another valid question you raised was, would images revealing ALL the wonderful physical attributes of Mother Nature's creations be suitable or desirable for people looking to adorn the walls of their homes or offices? An excellent point and in general I'd have to say no. Though I can also tell you in absolute honesty that, through our gallery up at the zoo, we have in fact sold this one more than a few times:
http://natureimpressions.smugmug.com/Animals/Primates-Malaysia/i-fg3hfR3/3/L/110513Borneo1298-L.jpg
Having said that, I concede that this particular image (and at least a couple of others I can think of!), while perhaps compelling in at an amusing (to some!) way, it's not one I would expect discerning art lovers to fall over themselves while rushing toward our checkout with cash spilling from their all too eager hands
Garrin, you'll hopefully be pleased to know that I value your comments and the points you made way more than the “2 cents” you may have credited them at, as they've caused me to open my mind even more allowing me to acknowledge that what I really need to work on now is deciding what it is I actually wish to achieve by way of my site enabling me to streamline it toward attracting a particular market.
It's not going to be easy, as I can already think of three aims I have and I'm not sure I'll be able to find a way of blending them effectively enough all on one website, which is a thought that perhaps is an answer in itself. Plenty for me to think about and work on in any case, and once again I thank you for your valued feedback.
All the best
http://NatureImpressions.smugmug.com
Hi Orljustin,
Your remarks are somewhat more challenging for me to address in an objective way, as, whether you're aware of it or not, the way you've expressed your thoughts come across at worst as offensive and insulting, and at best they show a distinct lack of consideration for my feelings, which I can assure you I have, particularly when it comes to something I feel so passionately about, in this case my work.
Nevertheless, seeing as you were willing to share your time in response, which is something I always appreciate, allow me to share my thoughts on yours.
In reference to “fine art”, well, no point in repeating what I just wrote above; if you're interested then of course you can scroll up and read that.
While in all honestly you're the first person I've ever come across to suggest that my images are “not necessarily emotive”, it saddens me to think you see them this way, as it means I've failed to achieve my primary goal of trying to capture something of a subject that takes my images way beyond that of the average holiday snapshot you're apparently seeing.
You wrote in general terms, “They're all brightly lit and most are focused across the scene.”
By “brightly lit” are you referring to over exposure or that, for your taste perhaps, my pictures appears too vivd and alive with colour, suggesting that your preference is for more subdued tones?
I'd be surprised if you thought that any of my images were overexposed, as this is something I work hard on trying to avoid, be it through the controls of my camera or by way of my post-production work.
With so much about art being subjective, I can't remotely expect everyone to love or even like all or even any of my work, so it's not something I ever really think about while creating pictures; I concentrate on what appeals to me the most, and a large part of that is strong, vibrant colours.
As to your suggestion that “most are focused across the scene”, I take this to mean you feel there's not sufficient depth of field in my images, which again I find most surprising, seeing as not only am I fortunate enough to use high quality lenses with large aperture settings of respectively f/2.8 (on my 70-200mm) and f/4 (on the 500mm), but where possible (i.e. many of Nature wonderful creations are far from cooperative when it comes to showing themselves in situations completely free and clear of distracting elements!) I always try to position myself so that there's more distance between the nearest elements behind my chosen subject than there is between my subject and the end of my lens.
In other words, I think most people would see at least two and in some cases the illusion of perhaps even three dimensionality rather than the flat one dimensional effect you're apparently seeing.
Having said all this, I am as always keen to learn, if only by scrutinising carefully the exceptional work of others. By the sounds of it you are quite experienced with photography, and perhaps your chosen genre also happens to be wildlife, which might explain why it appears you're so disappointed with my efforts. If by chance you are indeed a wildlife photographer I would genuinely appreciate the opportunity to see your work; maybe I too wouldn't care much for your style but, then again, seeing it may open my eyes to something completely new that inspires me to strive even harder. So I'd be very grateful if you'd be willing to provide me with a link to your website if you're still willing to share in what I hope is really a constructive way of trying to help a fellow photographer.
If it turns out that you're not a nature or wildlife photographer, so feel there'd be no real benefit in seeing your work of an alternative genre, perhaps you can direct me to photography and sites of wildlife photographers you've come across and greatly admire, allowing me greater insight on what you regard as more compelling imagery.
Naturally I'm sorry to know you see nothing at all appealing in my work, though as suggested above I've never had the expectation I'd be able to please everyone.
All the same, sincere thanks for taking enough of an interest to share your thoughts and opinions.
Kind regards,
http://NatureImpressions.smugmug.com
Illustrative:
http://natureimpressions.smugmug.com/Animals/Bears/17379134_L5QjQt#!i=1785874380&k=GLzxHHz
http://natureimpressions.smugmug.com/Birds/Birds-Thailand-1/17365494_kHCMWX#!i=1412336472&k=BvXsGhv
http://natureimpressions.smugmug.com/Birds/Birds-Thailand-1/17365494_kHCMWX#!i=1320719906&k=rTG5XN7
Bright - no highlights/shadows - just even:
http://natureimpressions.smugmug.com/Animals/Primates-Thailand-1/17364378_gWVWg5#!i=1781794104&k=9KXjGnT
http://natureimpressions.smugmug.com/Animals/Reptiles-1/17377609_ttjGfr#!i=1504875711&k=SFtzn6K
(as opposed to this one, which has interesting light)
http://natureimpressions.smugmug.com/Animals/Reptiles-1/17377609_ttjGfr#!i=1504835872&k=bp9JZJh
Looking again, you do have quite a bit of shallow focus - I'm not sure what I was looking at when I was thinking that.
Again, though, overall, I just look at most of these and say "there's a bird", "there's a lizard". I'm not getting anything more than that. Through composition, lighting, or whatever.
There's nothing wrong with that. There's a need for illustrative images.
However, check out some of these: http://scottbourne.com/category/photographs/ There's a wow factor there...
I would say that I too somewhat am in orljustin's boat in one aspect.
Your images to me though are stunning and am jealous that you are in a position to get those and I am sitting behind a desk!
But where I agree with orljustin is that "wow" factor that grabs you and doesn't let you go. I am thinking that on a lot of your images you can convert them to such by use of dodge and burn tools. To me it is a matter of post-processing.
For example, this series is great, but you can bring out the lions a lot more with say a vignette. Or perhaps cropping them very tight to the faces.
Again, your shots very well executed from the camera side....I think you can pop them more with simple post processing.
As to your site...sorry smugmug..but if you want to have that "fine art" or even upscale feel, go with something like livebooks (Hey livebooks...gimme commission!
While you are at it, consider having someone design a professional logo...or you can do it by using some classy elegant fonts. You will get a very good idea by looking at the livebooks site. Photoshelter is another site I think.
One last thing...get your own domain that reads mydomain.com and not mydomain.othersite.com.
Your site as it stands is not cutting it. It is ok for personal gallery, but certainly does not give me the feeling that you are serious about selling the prints or even in the business of selling prints.
P.S.: I understand where you are with the business side of things..I have just decided to double down myself and am changing everything from my logo to my website. It is scary!
WildViper
From Nikon D70s > Nikon D300s & D700
Nikon 50/1.8, Tamron 28-75/2.8 1st gen, Nikkor 12-24/4, Nikkor 70-200/2.8 ED VR, SB600, SB900, SB-26 and Gitzo 2 Series Carbon Fiber with Kirk Ballhead
I'm not a wildlife photog nor do I have any experience with online sales of nature and the like.
But I do know business (at least I think I know), and have some general questions/advice but I do not want to hijack this thread. We can discuss in this thread, a new thread or PM me.
facebook.com/robertchenphotography
your visitors get to your images. Maybe link to the commentary to another page?
As far as outside of the site, being a pro bird photographer, I push my
images/sites every chance I get. I don't wait for people come to me,
I go to them
One of the things I do are presentations. Every year I make contacts
with the local park systems and bird watcher clubs. I let them know
I'm available to give presentations. At those presentations I bring business
cards, copies of my books and maybe a framed print or two.
I also make sure that the writeup they do about my upcoming presentation is written
by me, which always includes my web address. The reason is for those folks who
wouldn't normally come still has a chance to see my images.
I also inquire about displaying my work. For example this July my work will be on display
at one of my local parks and the next month I'm giving a bird photography presentation.
Of course wherever my work is on display, there's always a hint on how to get to my
site.
I also don't let anybody tell me something is impossible. One year I setup a booth for
a covered bridge festival. So of course, the other photographers who were there were
primarily displaying bridge photographs.
So there's me, the only bird photographer. This one 'professional' said I would never sell
anything because of my subject and because of my prices.
Well, this wife visits my booth and tells me how they just completed an addition to their
house and loved my wood duck photos. She said she'll buy every one if I took a credit card.
I sent her to my site. They bought every one, matted and framed. I made a killing on that online sale.
Of course I had to rub it in to the 'pro' who gave me his advice.
Going back to my presentations, I have two types. One is just for the pure imagery, which is usually
targeted to the bird watcher type of crowd. The other presentation is becoming a better bird photographer.
I also offer private instructions and workshops.
Basically, I do: presentations, art shows, art galleries and workshops/instructions to get my name out there.
Doug
http://www.thebirdphotographer.com