There is still money in this game.

Glort · June 6, 2012

m

Demian · June 6, 2012

Very inspirational, Glort. Good luck with the new work!

angevin1 · June 6, 2012

Glort wrote: »

I haven't addressed the name of what I'm doing now on purpose.
I was looking for something the other night on google and another thread came up. I don't want to let the cat out of the bag to every shooter in the world (well more Oz really) just yet and shoot myself in the foot.

No Worries, you're secret is safe here! Haha!:D

Indeed, inspirational storyline. But damn sorry to hear you have to rid yourself of your accumulations to move!

mercphoto · June 8, 2012

Congrats Glort! You mean the secret to success isn't trying to do the same old business model and then complain that it doesn't work anymore?

puzzledpaul · June 9, 2012

Glort wrote: »

I Wonder how many photographers out there know what the hell this contraption is ????

Will have a stab - diesal engine, relatively low power / low revving, water-cooled, driving who knows what?
generator
Pump - you've got the oz franchise for (diluted / thinned) marmite ...
compressor
vac pump
worm gearbox for kids merry go round?

maybe running on your fav. fuel ... courtesy of the local chippie?

pp

puzzledpaul · June 9, 2012

Glort wrote: »

Close enough but given these things are a UK brand made in Dursley, I would have expected better detail!

Given that I'm not a petrol / diesal / biofuel etc head in any way, shape or form ... and you didn't ask for details, the basics had to suffice ... even tho' I've heard of the make

A good 'ol plodder that'll run for years ...

pp

mercphoto · June 10, 2012

Glort wrote: »

Now Bill, You have to get you're thinking cap on and see what you can come up with for your return to the game that is easier and more profitable than motorsports.
You may find a certain reluctance to leave what you know and get out of your comfort zone and you may miss the people you have come to know.
I'll tell you this much mate, you soon get over that when you have some spare $$ you never had before and you realise the better things now available to you in life.

Trust me, I've spent the last 18 months thinking of either new ways to do the track days, or things to do other than the track days.

kevingeary · June 10, 2012

Glort wrote: »

A some would be aware I have recently changed the main focus of the work I do in events to something new. Many would also be aware that I think Photography is a tough game these days and there are many markets that have become worthless or damn near it.

Last night a friend sent me an email of a contact with leads to 3 new potential markets/ jobs.
Today I followed that up and spoke to the relevant guy. The upshot is he wants 3 centres he manages photographed. One is an existing facility the company managers and 2 are brand Spankers.
The ongoing " event work" if you like adds up to between 3500 and 5000 kids.
That is a potential of $50K worth of work or better taking into account the promo shots right there.

It's been a year of big upheavals. I started in a totally new line of work, one I probably would have laughed at the thought of a bit over 6 months ago. My wife and I put the house on the market a frtnight ago and I have 20+ years worth of crap ( and I do mean CRAP) I have accumulated to get rid of. I estimate I have minimum 4 tons of metal I have collected for various progects to get rid of alone.
I also think that getting ready for the move will take 6 months and where I'm going to find the tie for that and the wok I have booked is beyond me unless 48 hour days come in within a month!

I was only looking at my book last night and despite only having done one single job this year in the new market, I am still quite a bit ahead for the YTD on all the events I had done so far last year. I am also at 50% of the total takings last year.
And I haven't had to get up in the dark once!

Now in discussing the leads and bookings in have in the new work so far, The penny dropped with my mate and I that this was already getting significant and I had better start chasing up some of the people that hadn't given me dates and booking them in for specific times. Writing down the places I had and the time it would take to do the work, I realised that I have at minimum 4 weeks too much work for this year and that doesn't even count the new places I scored today as I didn't have anything other than a lead on them last night.
Ballpark I estimate these to be a good 4-5 weeks worth of work.

The point of my typically long winded story is there are still profitable ( oh boy are there profitable!) markets out there. When I was looking to get back into photography a few years back after being sick, I didn't want to do weddings and portraits and all the other things that there are typically 1000 vultures all out there competing for. Saturated markets are a mugs game really. You spend more than half your time and advertising dollars jut trying to stand out from everyone else let alone reaching and selling the client.

As such I went looking for the out of the box markets and the fledgling and new Ideas. I found several.
Funeral photography was one, corporate sports another and photo booths something else. I also saw and esearched a good lead in newborn baby photography with a little twist that the mere mention of the idea to the relevant people had them asking to come discuss shooting in their hospital with them. The opportunities and markets may be different and I imagine all these things are done to death in the US and other places but here they hold potential.
There are other markets I have found as well which would be more suited to part time shooters but would have great potential none the less.
The trick and difficulty is in thinking outside the box. In some ways you can cheat by doing what people in other areas are doing but isn't known or common in yours.

I recognized an opportunity and went for it. Some have commented about having never done this work before and being in the right place at the right time etc. Well I reckon you have to create the right times and opportunities and run with them. They are hard enough to find when you look and try to create them, you could well have died of old age before they fall in your lap with a red ribbon on them to make sure you recognize and don't overlook them.

When I heard of the potential in this market I became an instant expert with the guys I was talking to. Rather than say I had never done it before, I made out I was and knew all about it without actually saying I had done this before or not. I asked questions that went pretty much like have you had it done before? What didn't you like about the last guys, what would you prefer or could be done to fit in with your needs and operations better. Ask things like that and your 50% the way in because they presume you can take a pic already, what they want is someone that they can work with.

I think people, particularly on forums tend to over complicate things.... Every damn thing on every damn subject from what I have seen not just photography. There is too much caution and not enough roll your sleeves up, bite off more than you can chew and chew like hell.
I have done that already. I don't know how I'm going to mange to do all the work I have lined up already but I know I will For one thing it's profitable and that gives me money I can plough back in with staff etc to help me.

Photography is not rocket surgery.
It's 90% Business and the rest is button pressing. For some reason, people in this game spend 90% of their time on the button pressing aspect, completely at odds with the practicality. That's fine if you have a 9-5 job and want to keep photography as an enjoyable pass time. ( in fact that's the smartest option of all if you ask me)

Photography is harder than it used to be for the older shooters and the game has changed for all. Some traditional markets are now crap and others are there waiting to be created or to go from walking to sprinting.
I guess it's all being savvy to the opportunities. I feel pretty humbled by how far I have got in 4 months since I first registered the new biz and it's certainly given me fresh insight.
I know thee are a few people here that are struggling to get work and make money despite being excellent shooters and I just wanted to try and motivate them and demonstrate that if a twit like me can make this game work, everyone else certainly can as well.

The game HAS changed but it's a long way from over yet. <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/thumb.gif" border="0" alt="" >

PS<
I haven't addressed the name of what I'm doing now on purpose.
I was looking for something the other night on google and another thread came up. I don't want to let the cat out of the bag to every shooter in the world (well more Oz really) just yet and shoot myself in the foot. <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/rolleyes1.gif" border="0" alt="" >

What do you mainly shoot as far as getting paid goes?

Snowgirl · June 11, 2012

Interesting and inspirational post, as well as timely. I had just made the decision over the week-end to completely re-write my business plan with the goal of actually making money. That said, it means I too have given up on horse show photography. Other than small or second (or third and beyond) weddings, I have no interest in the big affairs and the stress attached (must be an age thing

) and the occasional portrait session is ok. But, I am most definitely looking for a different and unique path that will be sustainable in a relatively tiny marketplace.

OK, back to the drawing board.

Snowgirl · June 11, 2012

Glort wrote: »

Beyond 3rd wedding?????
Wow, that's a place I have never been!
I have done the 3rd, for the same guy I did the previous 2 for, but never a 4th.

It's not easy going in another direction or finding new work but it's not impossible either.
As I recall we both went into the horse thing about the same time and had similar results. That was something new we made work as well as it was going to and now time to move on.

Exactly!

I think there are 2 basic business models. Ones that work on Qty of customers with low prices sold lots of times like we have been in before and the high priced model with few sales but always big ones.

This is the direction I want to move to. I have no desire to be the 'lowest price' Walmart photographer. I would much rather have fewer customers, but those who appreciate good work and are willing to pay for it.

If your neck of the woods doesn't have a high population, then work on high sales values. and don't fall into the trap mentality people don't have money or can't afford much etc.
I have never had much money but I have had just enough smarts to see that everyone isn't like me.
Unfortunately many business people that think everyone is poor set themselves up to only deal with the poor in their marketing.

I have always tried to cover a price range in what I do and make sure that the people that do have money have plenty of opportunity to spend it with me. Like the latest venture. It's a volume based model BUT, I have provision for those people with a $$ to spend to in fact spend it.
When I did T&I work with local soccer and netball clubs, I had some packages priced higher than anyone else I could find. Sure I started at the $15 " Get your foot in the door" package that the committees always look for but I also had the $45 and $60 package for the well off.

Now I didn't sell hundreds of the upper end ones but I did sell a good number and they really make up for the ones you do sell for $15. On average though I sold mostly the $25 packages and had an overall average in the $30 range which was heaps higher than anyone else I spoke to.

If you do portraits or weddings set yourself up so you can get what you can out of those that aren't well heeled but have the opportunity for those that are to spend to their level.
One small and obvious thing I found yrs ago was never start a price list with the cheapest products first.
Start off with the best and most exy. That way by the time they et to the cheapest, it looks cheap and they are missing not having all the things included in the better packages rather than feeling the pain of adding them in from the cheaper ones.
It's a small thing but a significant one.

This is an excellent bit of marketing advice and it works! Ever gone to a car lot? The first thing they show you are the luxury cars with all of the bells and whistles - then they work backwards price-wise. You should have heard the poor salesman I dealt with at the local Mercedes dealership when I went in to buy a Smart Car - hee hee. But, he was smart enough to realize that, although I had my heart set on a Smart Car for now, I might someday be in the market for something bigger / more luxurious etc. and he treated me as well as he would treat someone buying a top of the line Mercedes.

Also look at the competition. If you have some little upstart near you that got a camera for Christmas and thinks they are it, then don't even try to compete. Put yourself out of their price range and be the best. Lots of people are scared of loosing business which is especially ironic when they don't even have any to begin with.
There are lots of people that want cheap and there are just as many if not more that want good and will pay for it.

Now I just have to find those people who want, are are willing to pay for, a good product.

And there is also the thing that you might only need 1/4 of the customers the cheap shooter does to make more let alone the same money.

Yep - work smarter, not harder. I'm too old and arthritic to want to shoot 18 hours a day! Besides, I'd like to make some money with which to enjoy life a bit beyond merely paying bills and scraping by.

There are 2 guys I know here that are high end and started in the last few years from scratch. One does family portraits, the other weddings. Both are killing it and both are in the very distant rural suburbs rather than the city. The portraits guys AVERAGE sale is around $5k and he's churning multiple of these out a week.
His work is nice but it's nothing to write home about IMHO> He certainly has a styling of his own in retouching but it sure isn't my style. He did my family portraits a few years back and thankfully included the originals because My wife and I didn't like his retouching a bit.
Plenty of other people do though and they pay, I didn't.
Who you going to take notice of 'eh?

You have the experience, talent and style to make any people or pet photography work snow.
Go upper market, push yourself as the quality "Photography you'll be proud to own" shooter you are and go get 'em!

Thank you so much for the sage advice and encouragement!

clap

Glort · June 11, 2012

After reading your comments above Snow I had a look at your sites as I haven't had a sticky for a while.
Straight off one thing really hit me as a big difference between us and a hugely valuable asset you have that I bet you don't even recognize.

You LOVE what you do. I mean really love it. You love the people and the animals and especially the kids you donate your time towards. It shows in your pics and especially in your writings. You have it over me by miles.
Me, I just go through the motions for the most part. I'm mechanical. I know ( or try hard to find out ) what the client wants and manufacture that to happen. Sure I like talking to the people and mucking round and getting good shots of the kids but for me the over riding factor is money. For you it's love.

That is HUGE difference between us and a massive advantage for you. I always try to hire people like that because I know they will always do their best for me. We needed a screen door put on the back of the house a while back. I did the thing, got people to come give quotes.
The first guy that turned up was a screen door nut. The enthusiasm was jumping off him. Told me what was wrong with the old door, pointed out things I would have never known, considered or cared about... till he showed me. Explained how he could do things so the fitment was safer for the dog if it got knocked off it's tracks, how he could use wire that wouldn't tear when the cats climbed up it......
I gave the guy the go ahead on the spot. When it came to settle up and I paid him he said you know you didn't even ask me for a price before you gave me the go ahead, what was I like in relation to other quotes you got? I said what other quotes? I knew you would do a decent price for a fantastic job so why am I going to waste my time with other clowns? I found the right guy for the job straight off, no need to go looking gift horses in the mouth.

You just need to allow that enthusiasm and love of what you do to show in your marketing. It sure as heck comes across in your blog and the thoughts and writings on your site.
I'd suggest go with that especially for family, kids and pets work which is where I think you are wanting to be.

Forgive me if I am saying the wrong thing but to have a mature, caring and warm person like yourself to be able to photograph my family, kids or pets, things that are the most important to me in life, is about as good as it gets. I reckon if I spoke to you in a shopping centre where you were displaying you work and saw and heard what you feel for this I'd hire you in 60 seconds flat.

I see a lot of young trendy, stylish shooters around who are also insincere, full of themselves and also quite good shooters. I don't know what your competition is like but for me there is no contest in who I'm going to hire. I'm glad your on the other side of the world because I know if it came to competing with you , I couldn't. You have assets I just can't acquire.
I reckon I'm half a chance at marketing but I could not write the things you do be they faked marketing or not. For you it's totally sincere and just rolls out because of that.

Remember in sales and marketing people buy the Person, the product and the price.
In that order.

Well you are hell of a person, Your product is great and with those two nailed, who gives a damn about price? I want you and that's it. Now if there happens to be a miss goody two shoes down the road that's all bubbles and energy and excitement doing a better price, and trendier, more modern stylized work, to me that's no competition.
I want someone that has it in their hearts not in their wallets like where I come from and will do a classic style that I won't be embarrassed to look at in 10 years thinking " Was that really a good idea at the time???".

I think as said as it is, you need to sell yourself. Not only your pictures but YOU.
I would have a pic of yourself on all your ads maybe down the bottom of the classic 3 part layout with your own words on how you feel about what you do. No copywriter will ever match the power of what you feel put into words. Now I would NEVER put a pic of me on my own ads because I would literally and all jokes aside scare people away. I know people get a shock when they see this huge Bikie type roll up to do whatever it is I'm shooting but you have the perfect identity to shoot the sort of work you like. You are the person everyone has in mind and hope turns up to shoot their family etc.
Think the younger, slimmer version of the Mrs Doubtfire of photography.

I don't know your area or understand the opportunities for business and leads in your area but having never met you I can tell you have a lot going for you in this market and that's before you even take a pic. It's pretty obvious what you are about just from reading your words and knowing what you do with the little heroes etc so as against the grain of your modesty as I know it is, market yourself on yourself.
I have no doubt that if you get you as a photographer and person out there and known, you would have people come a long way to be photographed by you.

I know if I was a marketing person and you came to me as a client, I'd be rubbing my hands together saying this one is going to be a success story and an easy sell.
I have seen people with a hell of a lot less than you have going for them create very successful businesses so you have all the advantages. Don't think local area either, expand to the population centers and market the experience as a day out with the family or whatever.

I get the impression you think you are in a tough situation with not too many people around etc. It's also very clear you are totally oblivious to how much potential you have in yourself alone. From memory you were in the marketing field so if you have any friends you could get to do an ad based you more over than your photography, call in the favor. It's going to take someone else to recognise your asserts because I know you never will put them across sufficiently.

To me all you really do have to do is get yourself known. Once people really know you are out there, the rest will definitely take care of itself.

Snowgirl · June 12, 2012

Aaaghh - have quite the swelled head after reading this

But, that said, you are quite right. Not just me but a lot of other photographers suffer from reverse ego - we hide behind the camera for sure. Yes, despite the things I haven't done in terms of marketing, you're quite right - that is my background and I shall take your comments and suggestions most seriously! Thank you for taking the time to both check things out and write them out. Much appreciated!

Ceci

Glort wrote: »

After reading your comments above Snow I had a look at your sites as I haven't had a sticky for a while.
Straight off one thing really hit me as a big difference between us and a hugely valuable asset you have that I bet you don't even recognize.

You LOVE what you do. I mean really love it. You love the people and the animals and especially the kids you donate your time towards. It shows in your pics and especially in your writings. You have it over me by miles.
Me, I just go through the motions for the most part. I'm mechanical. I know ( or try hard to find out ) what the client wants and manufacture that to happen. Sure I like talking to the people and mucking round and getting good shots of the kids but for me the over riding factor is money. For you it's love.

That is HUGE difference between us and a massive advantage for you. I always try to hire people like that because I know they will always do their best for me. We needed a screen door put on the back of the house a while back. I did the thing, got people to come give quotes.
The first guy that turned up was a screen door nut. The enthusiasm was jumping off him. Told me what was wrong with the old door, pointed out things I would have never known, considered or cared about... till he showed me. Explained how he could do things so the fitment was safer for the dog if it got knocked off it's tracks, how he could use wire that wouldn't tear when the cats climbed up it......
I gave the guy the go ahead on the spot. When it came to settle up and I paid him he said you know you didn't even ask me for a price before you gave me the go ahead, what was I like in relation to other quotes you got? I said what other quotes? I knew you would do a decent price for a fantastic job so why am I going to waste my time with other clowns? I found the right guy for the job straight off, no need to go looking gift horses in the mouth.

You just need to allow that enthusiasm and love of what you do to show in your marketing. It sure as heck comes across in your blog and the thoughts and writings on your site.
I'd suggest go with that especially for family, kids and pets work which is where I think you are wanting to be.

Forgive me if I am saying the wrong thing but to have a mature, caring and warm person like yourself to be able to photograph my family, kids or pets, things that are the most important to me in life, is about as good as it gets. I reckon if I spoke to you in a shopping centre where you were displaying you work and saw and heard what you feel for this I'd hire you in 60 seconds flat.

I see a lot of young trendy, stylish shooters around who are also insincere, full of themselves and also quite good shooters. I don't know what your competition is like but for me there is no contest in who I'm going to hire. I'm glad your on the other side of the world because I know if it came to competing with you , I couldn't. You have assets I just can't acquire.
I reckon I'm half a chance at marketing but I could not write the things you do be they faked marketing or not. For you it's totally sincere and just rolls out because of that.

Remember in sales and marketing people buy the Person, the product and the price.
In that order.

Well you are hell of a person, Your product is great and with those two nailed, who gives a damn about price? I want you and that's it. Now if there happens to be a miss goody two shoes down the road that's all bubbles and energy and excitement doing a better price, and trendier, more modern stylized work, to me that's no competition.
I want someone that has it in their hearts not in their wallets like where I come from and will do a classic style that I won't be embarrassed to look at in 10 years thinking " Was that really a good idea at the time???".

I think as said as it is, you need to sell yourself. Not only your pictures but YOU.
I would have a pic of yourself on all your ads maybe down the bottom of the classic 3 part layout with your own words on how you feel about what you do. No copywriter will ever match the power of what you feel put into words. Now I would NEVER put a pic of me on my own ads because I would literally and all jokes aside scare people away. I know people get a shock when they see this huge Bikie type roll up to do whatever it is I'm shooting but you have the perfect identity to shoot the sort of work you like. You are the person everyone has in mind and hope turns up to shoot their family etc.
Think the younger, slimmer version of the Mrs Doubtfire of photography.

I don't know your area or understand the opportunities for business and leads in your area but having never met you I can tell you have a lot going for you in this market and that's before you even take a pic. It's pretty obvious what you are about just from reading your words and knowing what you do with the little heroes etc so as against the grain of your modesty as I know it is, market yourself on yourself.
I have no doubt that if you get you as a photographer and person out there and known, you would have people come a long way to be photographed by you.

I know if I was a marketing person and you came to me as a client, I'd be rubbing my hands together saying this one is going to be a success story and an easy sell.
I have seen people with a hell of a lot less than you have going for them create very successful businesses so you have all the advantages. Don't think local area either, expand to the population centers and market the experience as a day out with the family or whatever.

I get the impression you think you are in a tough situation with not too many people around etc. It's also very clear you are totally oblivious to how much potential you have in yourself alone. From memory you were in the marketing field so if you have any friends you could get to do an ad based you more over than your photography, call in the favor. It's going to take someone else to recognise your asserts because I know you never will put them across sufficiently.

To me all you really do have to do is get yourself known. Once people really know you are out there, the rest will definitely take care of itself.

Snowgirl · June 13, 2012

Thank you. I am most definitely taking your comments and suggestions seriously and, as I said, the timing couldn't be better. Having decided to forego horse show / event photography for the most part, I am now looking at totally redesigning my business model, target market and marketing strategy - and this thread cropped up at the perfect time.

Once I've got a more concrete concept in mind, I'll send it along for input

Take care 'down under'

Ceci

Glort wrote: »

You're welcome mate.

I hope my rantings are of some help to you. I mean what I say though and I don't blow sunshine up peoples backsides for the hell of it.
There are people whom are not cut out for the work they do and there are those that were made for it but fail to realize that they are doing their customers a bigger favor by working for them than they are by paying them.

I know you have put a lot of effort into things that you haven't got your fitting returns on but that was really more to do with picking the wrong market.
I think with people and pets you would be your forte' both from a self satisfaction POV and a financial one.

There are also not many instances where I would tell anyone to sell themselves over their work, but in your case, I think your greatest asset is you. You have so much going for you Snow so don't think just local, you can reach a very wide audience and I think they WILL come to you.

Think big, think exclusive and think upper market.
You really have so much to offer soo many people.

Glort · June 18, 2012

I went and saw another potential client today. A referral from a friend. Turns out the competition had been to see these same people, from what I could gather without directly asking some time probably in the last week or 2.

I let the manager I was there to see tell me all about her nephew and his skill at softball for over 30 Min as clearly she was still excited from his weekend performance and the whole family is right into the game. I thought that was sufficient Rapport building so handed her the presentation folder I have made up for when I see clients and started going through it with her and explaining what I do and how I do it.

The folder has an intro sheet which is a pic with sample images on a background with cartoon like characters in an ocean setting, our name logo etc. There is then an into letter explaining what we do and how it works and the benefits to the centers. There is a price list again all set out with the ocean background and characters, a full sample package, sheet of 12 sample images of kids of different age groups and copies of my certificate of currency for my insurances, our business registration and tax info etc.
Everything in the pack except the intro letter and the insurance docs is printed on glossy photo paper and this impressed the manager straight off with the quality of the documents and how we had done it all photographically.

After explaining things, she told me about the competition and said how much better my info was and all the other people had left her was a card and they didn't really explain themselves very well when she saw them anyway. She commented that it was great she had a price list and a sample package to refer back to and she wasn't really sure what the other people were charging anyway.

Knowing what they do I pointed out the image size they did and the price which seemed to jog the managers memory. Looking at my price list and the photos in the package, she quickly did the mental arithmetic the last manager I saw did and worked out how much better value my offerings were than theirs. She also pointed out I was triple the price but she still thought that was great value for what was included and not at all unaffordable.

Don't you just love it when you have set yourself at what you think is a very profitable price point and the client thinks they are getting a bargain!
Having the person you are trying to pitch your product to enthusiastic about it has to be as good as it gets.
I then got a tour of the facility and again, this one also needs repairs and may be closed in the next 2 weeks for that. The manager is waiting on confirmation at the end of this week and once she knows when things will be ready to go again, we'll make a date and I'll be on.
I have several places wanting to use me now, as my wife says, it's a dead certainty they will all ring back within days of each other and want me to start at the exact same time!

Suitably chuffed at having knocked the competition out of the ball park again, I came home to follow up another lead. My wife noticed an advertisement in an old local paper as she was lining the kitty litter tray ( I kid you not!) on the weekend and saved the page before it got put to any other use.... most fortunately.

I looked up the company's website and they seemed a reasonable sized operation. Today I gave them a call, spoke to the general manager and found they had not and anyone there before doing what I do. He was under the impression I would come for a day and charge them for my services. When I explained how it worked and they made a commission, he was real happy to arrange a meeting... which is tomorrow afternoon.
When I told my wife tonight she was very pleased with what she found in the kitty litter tray and I'm sure if it comes off, won't ever let me forget the lead she found me and where it was. Just hope if she meets the client she isn't too honest or precise about where we heard about them.

This Virgin territory in a very nice demographic area and has an enrollment of 1400 kids. If that isn't nice enough, it's 10 minutes from home. ( but in another world to the demographics of where I currently live).
This evening I have been working on a " Highlights" sheet of what I do which basically is a point form of the intro letter so they can see all the key points at a glance. I think this will be a worth while addition to the presentation folder I leave them.
I'm real keen to get this one over the line as it will be a totally cold call ( sourced from a litter box can you believe??) and a perfect stepping stone into the next Level of centers I want to approach which are all around the 4000 student mark.

Today showed me a couple of things.
One, that competition can be no competition or in fact an asset in making you look good and highlighting the benefits to the client when you have a superior product. I have experienced this before and years ago when I did bridal fairs. Sometimes the other guy across the passage way is doing a better job of selling you than himself by just highlighting the difference in your work and his.
Often times like today, I find myself remembering things I have learnt but also forgotten only to be reminded of them again with similar impact to when I first came to the realization.

I also learned ( remembered) again that lucrative markets can be right under your nose and also untapped. I know the area this other place is in reasonably well but I suppose having never looked for a facility of this type, had no idea of it's existence even though I know exactly where the place is just by reading the address.

One thing I will never forget is how one of the most important assets in business is just to be different.
You don't even have to be better, just stand out from the sheep. If you are different AND better than everyone else in the CUSTOMERS eyes, well that's a 3rd of the battle right there.
This is especially important when you are in a crowded or over saturated market.
Too many fish in the pond is definitely a big handbrake so if you can find a pond where there are no or very few other fish competing for the oxygen, then I would say that's another 50% of winning the game.

And another thing that started me out on this whole new venture, always be on the lookout for opportunities and leads everywhere... even in the cat litter tray.

As funny as that may be, there is a real good chance that one discovery in possibly the most unlikely and laughable place on earth, could generate many, many thousands of dollars for the business. I'm pretty sure if it does, that's an example of a lesson that will always be at the forefront of my mind.

Glort · June 19, 2012

I went and saw the guy at the center today and it went well. Family run business with the son managing it. The parents are currently away( at the conference no doubt) and the guy has to run it past them as one would expect.
He seemed totally happy though and I was very pleased when he started asking about my availability for the next school term and when they I could fit them in If they went ahead.

That's the sort of questions I love to hear them ask.

I think I'll have my work cut out If I do get it though. It's only a small place and how they shove 1400 kid a week through there must be something to see.

Snowgirl · June 19, 2012

Glort wrote: »

I went and saw the guy at the center today and it went well. Family run business with the son managing it. The parents are currently away( at the conference no doubt) and the guy has to run it past them as one would expect.
He seemed totally happy though and I was very pleased when he started asking about my availability for the next school term and when they I could fit them in If they went ahead.

That's the sort of questions I love to hear them ask.

I think I'll have my work cut out If I do get it though. It's only a small place and how they shove 1400 kid a week through there must be something to see.

Fantastic! You always give such great information, and the source of your lead is hilarious! All the best. If it gets too busy you can hire me

but the mileage charge might hurt too much.

Glort · June 20, 2012

I'd Hire you in a heartbeat Snow!

Funny enough, Today I did a model shoot.
To say I was impressed with this kid who is just 18 is an understatement. She has initiative and enthusiasm jumping out of her. She works part time at a local heavy machinery yard as a non indentured Diesel Mechanic and has been doing that 2 years now.
She is also a ballerina that has competed since she was six, mainly at national level.
What a combination.

While we we chatting the swim photography came up and she seemed really interested in that.
The upshot was she said you don't need an assistant do you?
I explained I wanted someone to do the sales and gave her all the bad points I could think including the hour's plus travel for her each way every day.

She seemed unfazed and asked if she could send me her resume to apply. I said no she asked if I had anyone, I said if you come up and see what is involved a couple of days and are still keen you are already hired.
Not sure what made her day more, the pics we did or the job offer.

Anyway, we are planning another shoot next week so I'll go over it again with her and I may well have found myself an asset and ability in getting through even more work.
I'd be happy to train her as a shooter and a seller so I could cover 2 pools at once.
See how it works out!

Snowgirl · June 20, 2012

Good for you. I hope your potential assistant works out for you.

Glort · June 20, 2012

It would be handy.

What about you snow?
Any thoughts or leads on your next move?

Snowgirl · June 22, 2012

Glort wrote: »

It would be handy.

What about you snow?
Any thoughts or leads on your next move?

Trying to find a bit of quiet time to actually think it through as opposed to flying by the proverbial seat of my pants. I definitely want to re-vamp my SmugMug website to make it more focused and less a jumble, but I lack the technical skills to customize it and the financial wherewithall to hire someone else to do it for me - so that's a dilemma.

I definitely want to focus on people and pet portraiture - that is, as you said, what I seem to be good at and I also thoroughly enjoy - especially young children.

Now to organize myself, my presentation and decide on an effective marketing strategy.

Piece of cake, right?

Snowgirl · June 23, 2012

Glort wrote: »

If we could sit down together and I could do it for you, it would be. same as if you did mine.
Trying to do your own..... flamin nightmare!

How true is this? I have a friend in western Canada that is a writer and we often craft each other's ad messages, bio's etc. but she's not in the photography side of things so can't help me out with this one.

I'm trying to write a piece for another offshoot of the market I'm doing, something like an underwater studio meets event photography. I know what I'm going to do, how i'm going to do it and everything else. Trying to put that to paper in a way that someone with no idea will be able to read and know what it's about is something else... as always!

If it were for someone else, I'd knock out a much better piece in no time, and I have done it for people time and time again. A friend and I have a term we coined " Being too close to the fire". He can see obvious things in my business that escape me till he points them out and then I feel like an idiot and I can do the same for him. Thing is, we are not in the same Business, he's a chef!
I think it takes an outsider sometime to have a clear perspective.

That is absolutely true. I am going to "consult" with a few acquaintances as well as current and former clients. Maybe that will help clarify things for me?? Or not.

One thing I do a lot is ask people questions. The more feedback I can get the better and as unimaginable as it may be, I have not trouble flat out asking " What did I do wrong, what did I do to annoy you or think I could have done better. It's gold when people tell you something because you can fine tune what you do and get that bit closer to perfection.

As I said, I think you should promote yourself heavily Snow. I think someone with the kindly face you have people could hire to take pics of their kids is a killer angle. You could push a kitch angle like " This grandmother CAN take pictures" and follow that up with a blurb about your love of photography and kids and you'd have everyone that read the ad ringing you.

Awwww

AS for your markets, I'd just say think of what you would really like to do then just make it happen. Yeah, easier said than done but not as hard as many think. Sometimes I think we are all too careful in business. we take the safe road scared we might loose customers we often don't have to start with.

Let your head go snow and You'll be fine.

I'll let you know how my planning explorations go

mercphoto · July 3, 2012

Neat idea Glort. But I'm thinking commissioned work, get away from spec. $400 minimum profit after expenses and costs of goods sold. We'll see how that works out for me.

Got some ideas...

Glort · July 4, 2012

Commissioned/ prepaid is always best.
I like the corporate work for that. They usually pay pretty well and don't argue too much about price.

Glort · July 11, 2012

I have been chasing the guy at the place i sourced from the cat litter box for a few weeks as they closed for the school holidays and just came back.

He was enthuastic and said his parents loved the idea as well and definately wanted to go ahead with it. he wants to do it twice a year, once for their summer and once for their winter terms.
He wants to get back to me next week with dates after he looks at what they have on and past enrollments to get the most popular terms. I'm pushing for the new term which starts next week.

Things have been a bit slow in getting to do the pics.
Seems a lot of pools are doing renovations or repairs at this time and don't want me to come in till they know when they will be done even though they definitely want me to shoot their centers.

I decided to just go with a first in best dressed basis and do some more cold calling. It's been complicated. Many of the places are run by councils and it seems they want to creat complication and red tape even though they can't explain why they want second meeting and what I didn't cover in the first or what they want more info on that wasn't discussed in teh first meeting.

One clown I have been chasing for a couple of weeks has been talking crap but I nailed him to a meeting tomorrow. I was warned he's a tosser that likes to keep people waiting and much them around on his power trip so I put the screws on him today as to why he needed another meeting tomorrow. He has my info pack and mentioned insurances. I said you have a copy of that already which he aggreed to but then spoke about risk insurance. I said that is public liability which I have as you know and is double your councils stated requirement.

Basically from there he spoke absolute rubbish which I did the sales technique on, fed it back to him, clarified, answered and then got an agreement that objection was now sorted and clarified and we could move ahead.
Really, I have no idea what the purpose of this meeting still is but I said I'd take my signs so WHEN he gave the pool manager and I the approval tomorrow, They could put them up to notify the parents and we could start shooting week 2 of the term.

He controls 2 pools with a combined enrolment of about 2400 kids so I'll be straight into the next one after that.
One of the other guys I saw earlier on spoke to me the other day and was confident his pool will be finished renovations for me to go in late this term so those 4 places with a total approaching 5000 kids should see me right the next few months.

I'll hit up the big one for term 4, 4000+ kids and see what my current prospecting yeilds from there.

On one big pool I rang they told me they had another shooter. Interestingly that shooter photographs every term. This centre has 3000+ kids so I'm wondering what sort of take up rate she gets. I know nothing about how she operates, all I know is the samples I saw on the website are really bad. It is no exaggeration to say the pics my daughter took with her P&S camera when we went out and did the test session were far superiour to what I saw on this competitors web site.

Maybe things have improved since then but I am going to send an info pack to the SS manager and follow it up to see if there may be an opening and they are willing to change for something different.

W.W. Webster · July 12, 2012

Glort wrote: »

I reckon the guy at the scrap metal yard and I are going to know the names of each others children by the time I have finished taking stuff there.

Why isn't he picking it up from you? If he wants you business, why isn't the pickup his problem?

Glort · July 13, 2012

W.W. Webster wrote: »

Why isn't he picking it up from you? If he wants you business, why isn't the pickup his problem?

This is a very good question and very helpful. I am glad you pointed it out or it may not have ocoured to me. Sometimes we miss ourselves what must be obvious to others.
It's good to get a wake up call now and then.
Clearly, if that's all you got out of all my postings and drivel, it must be damn boring so I'll take the hint and shut the hell up to spare everyone. :cry

W.W. Webster · July 13, 2012

Glort wrote: »

Clearly, if that's all you got out of all my postings and drivel, it must be damn boring so I'll take the hint and shut the hell up to spare everyone.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm enjoying your posts and the whole thread, but just wondered why you were burdening yourself with this on top of all the other pressure that is on you!

There is still money in this game.

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