Client unhappy with photos

jmphotocraft · June 12, 2012

She said the lighting was too harsh, what do you think?

This room is completely off-white, so I just bounced my flash off the wall to my left. There is a window to my right. I think maybe I aimed the flash a little high as I agree the light is not getting into her eyes as well as I would have liked. But I don't think these are harsh...? Anyway, I've offered a re-shoot with umbrella, or a refund. :cry

papadaka · June 12, 2012

Well, I think you have found the reason why ageism is very much alive in the industry. It practically takes a psychology degree to be able to capture a mature person in a light that they feel makes them look attractive. It looks here as if you were going for a realistic approach and you see where that got you :-) Seriously, you have to walk a fine line with shadows and filters and focus to meet the clients expectations. I'm sure during the pre-capture consultation, she was probably one of the most elegant ladies you've encountered. Sometimes that is a key that the client will be very finicky and pick over every detail of the finished product. With this in mind, sometimes it is worth the effort to shoot with various lighting schemes in order to have options that the client will have to choose from. You may still have to re-shoot, but at least you'll have a better idea of which direction you need to go. I do not envy your situation right now and wish you all of the best ! Let us know the end result if you reshoot...

Gotham · June 12, 2012

This is certainly not harsh lighting. If anything, it's closer to flat lighting. If you are going to re-shoot, I'd find out what she means by "harsh lighting" before you do it, otherwise an umbrella and more light in her eyes isn't necessarily going to solve her issues with the photos.

Demian · June 12, 2012

It looks like she's a little underexposed and backlit (at least on my POS monitor). The dark skin tones look kind of grayish (which does not complement her hair well) and there are no catchlights in her eyes, making them look a little dull.

I'm guessing the room was a little dark, so the best option would have probably been to use two flashes (bounce off the left wall, and a second flash to hit her face). Alternatively, you could have cranked the ISO, changed angle and shot towards more even lighting and just used the on-camera flash for fill.

Second, I would have gone with a tighter crop. She looks kinda chubby in the pictures, and she probably thought the same thing. I tried cropping the top picture right below the elbow and thought it looked more flattering. It also brings more attention to her eyes.

Good luck!

lifeinfocus · June 12, 2012

I had thought about doing a niche market only for seniors and discovered that most don't want their photos taken. I concur with above that it does look underexposed.

If it turns out well on the next shoot I would love to the changes and what you did.

Good luck,
Phil

Art Scott · June 12, 2012

Might try running thru Portrait Professional and see if you can brighten the eyes and make her skin a little more like a glamour shot...as far as too harsh that is a relative thing and very personal for each client...IMHO theses are not really harsh....but then that is JMHO....

Foques · June 12, 2012

i'd try dodging her face first, I think..

jmphotocraft · June 12, 2012

Thanks for the comments. I accept the fact that I should have been more careful to light up her deep-set eyes, but I was thrown off by the harsh comment. Anyway, this was my first unsatisfied customer, live and learn. I offered a re-shoot or a refund. If we re-shoot, I know how to fix this. She is a reasonable person.

Sam · June 12, 2012

The key issue here is the client is unhappy. The major problem how do you discuss it with them objectively? If it were her dog or husband no problem. I can imagine her saying things like, yeah he's fat, and has beady little eyes but can you maybe do something about them.

Now when discussing herself, you ain't never going to get that kind of honesty, so it does present a real problem to determine what the REAL issue is.

I see an ok photo taken by a competent photographer. I don't see high end creative pro portrait photographer.

One thing that could help is what the client wanted the image for. For me I see where she came up with the harsh light comment. She isn't looking at the camera. Has a nice smile appears relaxed but somewhat disconnected. The background and environment doesn't look to be well thought out and is distracting.

In the second image I think the black outfit added an additional exposure DR challenge without adding anything significant to the image.

She has these high / prominent cheeks creating deep shadows on both sides of her face. I think if you can soften these it would go a long way to satisfying her.

Just my thoughts.

Sam

MileHighAko · June 12, 2012

Art Scott wrote: »

Might try running thru Portrait Professional and see if you can brighten the eyes and make her skin a little more like a glamour shot...as far as too harsh that is a relative thing and very personal for each client...IMHO theses are not really harsh....but then that is JMHO....

This is what I suggest as well. I took the first image you posted and ran it through PortProf on default and it really made a difference. I think you might be able to tweak the shots you have into something she likes using PortProf or a similar tool.

jmphotocraft · June 12, 2012

MileHighAko wrote: »

This is what I suggest as well. I took the first image you posted and ran it through PortProf on default and it really made a difference.

can I see?

Sam, she is a realtor, she wanted these for her business. I'll take "competent photographer" - I'm obviously not high end or ultra hip/creative, and I charge accordingly!

But for a professional portrait I err on the conservative side. Also, she selected the room.

MileHighAko · June 12, 2012

jmphotocraft wrote: »

can I see?

http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/23522659_D2Rmm5#!i=1901859371&k=44GvCV5

Use the left-right keys to go back and forth repeatedly to see the difference. I didn't do any touch up on anything other than just running the face only through Portrait Professional and accepting all the defaults. I like the results, and with a little more work I think it could be quite nice.

I'm not an expert in portraits or this tool, but I have successfully used it a handful of times.

lifeinfocus · June 12, 2012

MileHighAko wrote: »

http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/23522659_D2Rmm5#!i=1901859371&k=44GvCV5

Use the left-right keys to go back and forth repeatedly to see the difference. I didn't do any touch up on anything other than just running the face only through Portrait Professional and accepting all the defaults. I like the results, and with a little more work I think it could be quite nice.

I'm not an expert in portraits or this tool, but I have successfully used it a handful of times.

I have it used a number of times - and you will be able to brighten the eyes some.
Phil

Sam · June 12, 2012

jmphotocraft wrote: »

can I see?

Sam, she is a realtor, she wanted these for her business. I'll take "competent photographer" - I'm obviously not high end or ultra hip/creative, and I charge accordingly! But for a professional portrait I err on the conservative side. Also, she selected the room.

I think that for a business card a plain or simple background devoid of objects would translate better to the small image printed on the business card. Also might think about cropping tighter.

You are right about a simple conservative image for this use.

I think your re-shoot will be successful.

Sam

jmphotocraft · June 12, 2012

MileHighAko wrote: »

http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/23522659_D2Rmm5#!i=1901859371&k=44GvCV5

Use the left-right keys to go back and forth repeatedly to see the difference. I didn't do any touch up on anything other than just running the face only through Portrait Professional and accepting all the defaults. I like the results, and with a little more work I think it could be quite nice.

I'm not an expert in portraits or this tool, but I have successfully used it a handful of times.

Thanks. That doesn't solve what I think is the main problem of not enough light in her eyes. I don't think it could be solved without a re-shoot.

Bryce Wilson · June 12, 2012

May I try something with your image?

jmphotocraft · June 12, 2012

Sam wrote: »

I think that for a business card a plain or simple background devoid of objects would translate better to the small image printed on the business card. Also might think about cropping tighter.

You are right about a simple conservative image for this use.

I think your re-shoot will be successful.

Sam

Thanks. I think the first shot cropped would work well for a business card. Well, if there was more light in her eyes!

Bryce Wilson wrote: »

May I try something with your image?

Go nuts, that's why I posted it. Thanks in advance for your time.

Bryce Wilson · June 12, 2012

jmphotocraft wrote: »

Thanks. I think the first shot cropped would work well for a business card. Well, if there was more light in her eyes!

Go nuts, that's why I posted it. Thanks in advance for your time.

This might work a little better. Brightened the eyes and softened the light on the face a bit.

jmphotocraft · June 12, 2012

The rest of the story...

Bryce Wilson wrote: »

This might work a little better. Brightened the eyes and softened the light on the face a bit.

Thanks. A good effort and I think that's about as much as could be done with this photo and I don't think she would find it natural.

So here is the rest of the story... this is my second shoot with this realtor. The first was last year and she was happy with the results then. She wanted new pictures taken for a specific reason that has nothing to do with me or those photos. She requested the same white room, so I figured I'd be all set with just bounce flash, and I left my umbrella at home. Mistake.

Last year, fully retouched...

Pics in the OP are SOOC. Even though this pic is fully retouched, I didn't have to do much on the eyes because they were well lit by the eye-level umbrella. Bouncing up to the wall/celing corner was my mistake this year. I was just thrown off by the "harsh lighting" comment.

Demian · June 12, 2012

I think in general, a reshoot is the way to go for faulty shooting. Photoshopping over a shooting error -after- the client has noticed it is likely to be viewed as a cheap fix (and likely won't look as good as a correctly shot portrait). Better to just take the hit and shoot it correctly, showing respect to the client and ensuring only your best work is displayed.

(caveat: I am not a commercial photographer)

jmphotocraft · June 12, 2012

Agreed, Demian. She has agreed to a re-shoot.

zoomer · June 13, 2012

She is the darkest part of the photos she should be the brightest part of the photo. The light is not harsh it is to much contrast between her and the bright room.
Last years see how she is closer to the color of the room....still not bright enough in relation to the room....and don't put the corner of the wall coming out the back of her head.
Try turning her around and using the window light.
Good luck with it.

Client unhappy with photos

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