Copyright... Should I wait for Certificate before Publishing

PilotBrad

I was in Alaska recently and I was fortunate enough to capture something very cool and very rare. The professional guides I was with were making a very big deal about the photo and want to see it published.

With this is mind, I want to file for a Copyright with the USCO, but my question is this...

Is it OK to publish the photo (online or elsewhere) before receiving the Copyright Certificate?

My understanding is that it is OK to publish, but that I wouldn't be able to pursue legal action against anyone who may infringe on the copyright until I have received the certificate... correct?

I hate to be concerned about things like this, but the photo is THAT unique that I had several business cards presented to me and comments by guides and a local naturalist that I should submit it to Nat Geo. We'll see.

Glort

Submitting to a publication is different to publishing it.

If you don't want the image copied all over the net, then don't publish it online.

As for persuing legal action for those that infringe, yeah, good luck with that. The time, effort and cost of that makes it something the gullible rather than the experienced believe in.
If it's some tin pot online publication they will have nothing worthwhile suing for and even if you do get awarded damages, You'll still be out of pocket.
If it is someone big like Nat Geo, they will tie you up and muck around for years till you drop it in frustration.

Suing and damages are something people make a lot of noise and threats over without actually having a clue what's involved. Don't listen to armchair lawyers about it, go see a real one and ask the costs and difficulties of pursuing such a case.

In this case you can submit directly to the mag without risking copyright. I just wouldn't post the pic to any hosting site because a lot of the terms and conditions those have these days are dodgier than hell and would give them rights to the image as a term of usage.

Icebear

What is a Copyright Certificate?
I think you're referring to the certificate of registration that you eventually receive when you register your work. Your copyright exists from the moment you create the work by pressing the shutter. Here's what the United] S[tates Copyright Office has to say about it:

Copyright Registration
In general, copyright registration is a legal formality intended
to make a public record of the basic facts of a particular copyright.
However, registration is not a condition of copyright
protection. Even though registration is not a requirement for
protection, the copyright law provides several inducements
or advantages to encourage copyright owners to make registration.
Among these advantages are the following:
• Registration establishes a public record of the copyright
claim.
• Before an infringement suit may be filed in court, registration
is necessary for works of U. S. origin.
• If made before or within five years of publication, registration
will establish prima facie evidence in court of
the validity of the copyright and of the facts stated in
the certificate.
• If registration is made within three months after publication
of the work or prior to an infringement of the work,
statutory damages and attorney’s fees will be available to
the copyright owner in court actions. Otherwise, only an
award of actual damages and profits is available to the
copyright owner.
• Registration allows the owner of the copyright to record
the registration with the U. S. Customs Service for protection
against the importation of infringing copies. For
additional information, go to the U. S. Customs and
Border Protection website at www.cbp.gov/.
Registration may be made at any time within the life of
the copyright. Unlike the law before 1978, when a work has
been registered in unpublished form, it is not necessary to
make another registration when the work becomes published,
although the copyright owner may register the published
edition, if desired.

Bottom line is if you have a valuable work, make hay while the sun shines. Go ahead and register your work, but don't wait to capitalize on it.

mercphoto

My take on this, DON'T put it online in any form until you have someone licensing that image. If it is that unique, if you have people interested in it, keep it under wraps until you've licensed it. Keep it RARE until its been licensed to help increase its value.

Dan7312

You have a copyright when you push the shutter, but if your copyright is not registered you are limited in the amount of damages you can claim.

If you think it is valuable you migth want to get "official" advice from a copyright lawyer rather.

Bunch of copyright stuff on the sticky thread on this forum
http://dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=97869
like http://www.photoattorney.com/

Icebear wrote: »

What is a Copyright Certificate?
I think you're referring to the certificate of registration that you eventually receive when you register your work. Your copyright exists from the moment you create the work by pressing the shutter. Here's what the United] S[tates Copyright Office has to say about it:
.

PilotBrad

Thanks everyone.

My main goal in registering for a copyright was simply to give myself options in the future should the photo be used in a manner that I do not approve. While I understand I technically have the copyright when I press the shutter, I've heard interviews with copyright attorneys who state that without registering the image with the USCO no attorney will agree to to take you on as a client (should you ever need an attorney).

I would like to share it online (here, 500px and similar), and perhaps enter it into Nat Geo's "Your Shot" photo contest and perhaps other contests. Other than that I really don't have any idea what to do with it. It is cool and unique, but I wouldn't even know how to go about getting it published somewhere, and other than selling prints myself I don't really know how to monetize it. Suggestions?

Bottom line is, wherever I post or submit it I will be sure that their terms of service allow me to retain my copyright.

mercphoto

Just stay away from the photo contests. Period. Have you ever seen the terms and conditions? Almost all the time if you submit a photo you give up so many rights that any commercial use of the image is destroyed.

Cygnus Studios

Glort wrote: »

Suing and damages are something people make a lot of noise and threats over without actually having a clue what's involved. Don't listen to armchair lawyers about it, go see a real one and ask the costs and difficulties of pursuing such a case.

This is so true. It is easy enough to pay your attorney a good bit of money to defend your copyright, but getting money out of the thief is a whole different story.

Now this doesn't mean that you should allow people to steal your images. Most companies that steal your image will remove the image in response to a letter asking for its removal. If they have published the image in print, you will get a small usage fee without much of a fight, but once the lawyers get involved, you're working basically on principle.

Now if some individual steals your image it is even worse. You'll never get enough money to cover your expenses. Even if you win in small claims, the odds of getting the money rank right up there with meeting Bigfoot. The money spent for small claims court is small, but the hours involved are ridiculous.

Great pics do not get posted online. Keep them in a hidden section of your website and sell them.

PilotBrad wrote: »

It is cool and unique, but I wouldn't even know how to go about getting it published somewhere, and other than selling prints myself I don't really know how to monetize it. Suggestions?

As far as getting published, this is actually easier than most people believe.

You have to know what publications use the type of image you have.
You also have to know the schedule for the publication. Most put stories together months in advance.
Of course "breaking news" shots take precedence and can be published quickly.
Then you have to know how to submit to the publication. All of the magazines have submission guidelines, along with who to submit the image to (editor, director, etc.)

Stay away from contests, that is such an amateur act. You're giving away your images and for what?

Howard Barlow

There is a lot of misinformation above, concerning your ability to collect for infringement. And, you do not do it in small claims court. It is a federal violation. Get an IP attorney who actually litigates, not just offers advice. Fed law awards attorney costs, in addition to the plaintiff's award. None of this is offered as legal advice, just a few personal comments.

Register your work.

Glort

Howard Barlow wrote: »

Fed law awards attorney costs, in addition to the plaintiff's award.

Assuming you win.
And as any lawyer will tell you, that is never a certainty.

Have you actually engaged a copyright lawyer yourself?

It is my belief that they will want money, significant money upfront on a civil case like this. In order to persue a case you have to have the upfront for the lawyer and expenses and hope to hell you do get awarded damages and costs.

I'm not sure that is as definite as you say either.

MomaZunk

Registrations are by year:
You can register images as published or unpublished.
Anything posted on the web is pretty much published.
For published images you are protected up to 90 days after the date of publishing, or if registered before the infringement.
For now, you can register your images electronically in batches for $35 per batch.
I do 5 batches a year at $35 each: i.e., once per quarter for published images, and once per year for unpublished images.
The date of the last uploaded submission to that batch is the date of registration.
The certificates show up in the mail several weeks after the electronic submission. Do not let the certificates impact your timing on publishing.

If you are going to register your unique image, I recommend sending in some other images to register at the same time, and get your full $35 worth.

Art Scott

MomaZunk wrote: »

Registrations are by year:
You can register images as published or unpublished.
Anything posted on the web is pretty much published.
For published images you are protected up to 90 days after the date of publishing, or if registered before the infringement.
For now, you can register your images electronically in batches for $35 per batch.
I do 5 batches a year at $35 each: i.e., once per quarter for published images, and once per year for unpublished images.
The date of the last uploaded submission to that batch is the date of registration.
The certificates show up in the mail several weeks after the electronic submission. Do not let the certificates impact your timing on publishing.

If you are going to register your unique image, I recommend sending in some other images to register at the same time, and get your full $35 worth.

what is the current limit on electrronic registration??

Do you still have to send in a Disk(s) also??

MomaZunk

No disk, and no limit as far as I know. The only limit is on the duration of the required upload which is ~1 hour. I do not approach this time limit, as I limit my upload groups to less than 10 minutes, so if it does not go, I have lost little time. You can upload more than one group for each registration, but the date of registration is based on the last upload to that particular registration.

PilotBrad

Thanks for the input everyone. I did register my a few of my photos, not because I am looking to sue anyone, but simply to give myself more protection or options for action down the road. I figured it was worth $35 to make it official.

There's really no point in consulting an attorney at this point (and I hope I never have to) as they are just going to tell me to register my work, which I've already done.

Thanks!