Amateur vs professional wedding photographers.

insanefred

I am curious to hear from Dgrinners, amateur vs professional wedding photographers. What exactly defines as someone that is an amateur and what exactly is a professional wedding photographer? Other than one gets paid for what he/she does.

I hear some comments about how you should never hire an amateur, but what is an amateur?!
Am I an amateur? I photograph maybe two weddings a year and volunteer my time to photograph lots of other events without pay.

ziggy53

Never mind the labels. People tend to label people and things in order to simplify for themselves.

As in any trade, photography and photographers should be judged by the results. When researching photographers for a project or a job it's best to require examples of their previous related work. If a photographer cannot supply examples of their photography, relating to the task, then they are at least "inexperienced". If they cannot supply "any" examples of their work, they are probably inexperienced to the point of incapable.

It's a good idea for any photographer to have a portfolio of their work.

Moogle Pepper

One of the age old questions...

simply bullet pointed.

• produces a consistent level of quality in their work
• paid
• how they handle and deal with clients
• how they handle and mentor other photographers

divamum

To Ted's concise and excellent list, I'd add that there are "amateurs" (meaning those who aren't paid as much or as often as a full-time professional) who produce professional quality work (including the people skills detailed above)

mercphoto

ziggy53 wrote: »

Never mind the labels. People tend to label people and things in order to simplify for themselves.

Not always. Most states, for example, have a defined process and licensing system if you want to call yourself a "professional" engineer. Having a degree in engineering and making a living at it is not enough. And with that comes certain legal rights as well as liabilities and responsibilities. AFAIK nothing similar exists in the photography industry. "Professional" is a subjective term, not a legal one in this case.

I'm not even sure how you could come up with a meaningful way of establishing a licensing system for a "professional" photographer. While engineering does have a lot of creativity in it, it is also highly numerical, analytical, statistical. Its relatively easy to test for competence. Thermodynamics, mechanics, basic chemistry, high level math skills, etc.

Sam

My thoughts on this are not quite so simple.

While there are some (a lot) fantastic amateur photographers, many better than many pros I believe there are real and meaningful differences between what we call an amateur and a pro.

I am sure there are more but this is what comes to mind right now.

A pro:

1. Has gear, reasonably current bodies with features and capabilities designed for event / wedding work.

2. Has back up camera body, lenses, flashes, memory cards.

3. Knows how to use the gear.

4. Can produce good consistent results under even difficult weather, or venue conditions that is the same quality as the portfolio presented to clients.

5. Has reasonably current image editing software and a color calibrated workflow.

6. Understands color space, image size, resolution, file types.

6. Has an image storage and back up plan in place.

7. Has reliable transportation.

8. Is personally reliable, and shows up prepared and on time.

9. Has experience with shooting weddings.

10. Has a back up plan in case he or she has an emergency and can't shoot the wedding.

11. Has insurance.

An Amateur has whatever they have. There are no standards they could be great or terrible. They may or may not have backup gear. They may or may not have experience. Not sure I have ever seen an amateur with business insurance.

Sam

Matthew Saville

There is no "other than one gets paid", in my opinion. Amateur photographers might be some of the best photographers in the world, better than many professionals, but if there is not business transaction involved, they qualify as an amateur / hobbyist.

I believe the reason this question comes up is simply the fact that people use the phrase "acting professionally" to describe anyone who is has their act together, who knows what they're doing, is well-equipped, etc. These things alone do not comprise the entire meaning of the definition of the word (noun) "professional". You might be able to use it as an adjective, though, and say "that person takes a very professional approach to photography" ...or something like that.

On the flip side, HOWEVER: Accepting money alone does not make you 100% professional. There are the things that Sam just listed, for starters. If you don't know your gear like the back of your hand, if you don't own backup equipment and if the money you make is generally just a few bucks here and there, then yes I would say you're still an amateur. I photographed plenty of weddings as an amateur, and thankfully I did alright but people were still certainly taking a risk by hiring me... Indeed, there is always risk involved in hiring an amateur. Again, namely for the reasons that Sam listed. So, there are plenty of truly talented amateurs out there; and plenty of terrible pros in which case I'd much rather have a talented amateur photograph my wedding than an un-talented pro. As long as nothing catastrophic happens, I'd be okay...

=Matt=

Ed911

What Matt said.

And a couple of other thoughts...Professional...that's how you make your living...and with photographers...it's a liberal definition of the word. You have photographers making $10,000 a wedding...and those making less than a thousand...and still calling themselves professionals.

As far as gear goes...it's all over the board...from nothing more than a camera and one lens to everything you could want, and more. When a client asks for a professional, what they most likely really mean is, and are looking for, is an expert in their field.

There's been many a client fooled into believing that since someone calls themselves a professional, and charges for what they do, that they are competent in their field....

The word, professional, should convey a standard of performance...but, sadly, it doesn't.

Professional photographer, to me, simply means that you're going to be charged for whatever services they are selling. It doesn't mean that you're going to get the best images available...so...look at their work...web page, whatever...and see if you think they're what they advertise themselves to be.

Never hire and amature...well, never hire an inexperienced one anyway. Some armatures are experts in photography...you may want to hire them...after you vet them, just like you should vet all professionals.

Well, that's my state of the photography address...lol...

Blurmore

This debate is raging on a facebook group I belong to of MD VA and DC area photographers. I've shot HUNDREDS of weddings, and dozens where I was the primary AND the person who was responsible for deliverables. Some people in the group seems to want to qualify "professional" as "has a bricks and mortar location" and "is legal business entity". I have very little interest in being a small business person, my mother has owned a bricks and mortar retail store for 21 years and can barely keep her head above water. I pay taxes, I carry insurance, I deliver proofs, but 85% of my income comes from work as a sub-contractor and the people in this group would like is out. Because I'm willing to photograph a wedding at a location so exclusive there exists no photographs of the location on the internet, for less than 1000 dollars working for someone else, I'm apparently not a professional to them. I agree with and qualify for both Sam and Moogle's definition of a professional. The first words out of the mouth of the groom (and attorney) I photographed last weekend were, "I don't like pictures or cameras". Later in the day when I was joking with his bride about his first words to me, he broke in with "But I LIKE YOU". Professional is your actions, conduct, and competence.

Matthew Saville

Blurmore wrote: »

This debate is raging on a facebook group I belong to of MD VA and DC area photographers. I've shot HUNDREDS of weddings, and dozens where I was the primary AND the person who was responsible for deliverables. Some people in the group seems to want to qualify "professional" as "has a bricks and mortar location" and "is legal business entity". I have very little interest in being a small business person, my mother has owned a bricks and mortar retail store for 21 years and can barely keep her head above water. I pay taxes, I carry insurance, I deliver proofs, but 85% of my income comes from work as a sub-contractor and the people in this group would like is out. Because I'm willing to photograph a wedding at a location so exclusive there exists no photographs of the location on the internet, for less than 1000 dollars working for someone else, I'm apparently not a professional to them. I agree with and qualify for both Sam and Moogle's definition of a professional. The first words out of the mouth of the groom (and attorney) I photographed last weekend were, "I don't like pictures or cameras". Later in the day when I was joking with his bride about his first words to me, he broke in with "But I LIKE YOU". Professional is your actions, conduct, and competence.

I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at about your sub-contractor work, but it sure sounds professional to me. You get paid 85% of your income from it, that's professional.

=Matt=

Sam

reenilswin wrote: »

Mostly, a wedding comes one time in a life so every wants to make this event very interesting and memorable so for that only one option is wedding photography. I think anyone doesn't want to ignore this event to make unforgettable.

Welcome. I have one question are you Evie of Karezona Photography?

Sam

Jamesbjenkins

Labels are for people with self-esteem issues who cope with their mediocrity by tearing down other photographers and demanding that everyone else subscribe to their arbitrary definition of "pro".

Eff that. Do what you do. When you get to the point that people who aren't your friends and family say things like "WHOA! Awesome picture!" it's safe to say you're on your way to "pro".

Bryce Wilson

Mr. Jenkins, I would ask you this:

I'm a major foodie. I enjoy cooking and baking and have studied it on my own extensively, for years. I frequently host dinner parties. When invited to functions, I normally bring a dish or two, and complete strangers come up to me, rave about it and ask questions about the preparation methods. I have even catered several intimate dinner parties at the behest of friends.

Can I call myself a professional chef?

nak

Jamesbjenkins wrote: »

Labels are for people with self-esteem issues who cope with their mediocrity by tearing down other photographers and demanding that everyone else subscribe to their arbitrary definition of "pro".

Eff that. Do what you do. When you get to the point that people who aren't your friends and family say things like "WHOA! Awesome picture!" it's safe to say you're on your way to "pro".

I humbly beg to differ.

• An amateur does it because they like to.
• An artist does it because they are inwardly driven to.
• A professional may enjoy their work and they may be driven to do it, but they do it at some one else's behest and they deliver the goods expected of them.

All three can shoot stuff that gets "awesome picture." Actually, that is a sign that you are "on your way" but not a reliable indicator that you are anywhere near "being there."

The drawback to having an amateur do your shoot is that they may fail to deliver, or they may not want to do the work.

The drawback to having a [non-professional] artist do your shoot is that the art that they deliver may not at all meet your wants or needs.

The joy of hiring a pro is that they subsume their desire and their art to deliver what is expected of them. The holy trinity is when what they like shooting is what you want shot, their art is the kind of thing you are after, and they know how to deliver the goods.

divamum

• An amateur does it because they like to.
• An artist does it because they are inwardly driven to.
• A professional may enjoy their work and they may be driven to do it, but they do it at some one else's behest and they deliver the goods expected of them.

My new favorite quote. Applies to musicians just as much as photographers!!!

72Sandeen

Look at photo composition once again. Professional photographs are taken with great care and detail. Composition should be very deliberate and pertinent to the subject of the photograph. Professional photographs are often unique in their framing and perspective.









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