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Looking for suggestions

bdcolenbdcolen Registered Users Posts: 3,804 Major grins
edited July 22, 2012 in Street and Documentary
As we all know, there are more photography "how to" books than there pixels in the average modern image. For a number of years I have been assigning one to my students, to make up for the fact that I spend next to no time on the "basics" in my class. The problem with most of these books is that they contain far too much information, on too many topics, and also include next to no information on some others. So here's my question:

What would you like to find in a short - maybe 96-108 page - photo book, intended for people who want to photograph what I will call 'the real world' in a straight forward manner? Please don't write an essay - just list your top two, three, or a half-dozen thoughts.

Thanks in advance,

B. D.
bd@bdcolenphoto.com
"He not busy being born is busy dying." Bob Dylan

"The more ambiguous the photograph is, the better it is..." Leonard Freed

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    TonyCooperTonyCooper Registered Users Posts: 2,276 Major grins
    edited July 17, 2012
    Tell them, if they are new to this genre, to get over being concerned
    about the "distractive" elements that are acceptable in "Street" but
    singled out for criticism in other photographs.

    Street captures things as they are, and that sometimes includes warts.

    Show Michswiss's #1 in the umbrella series to someone who isn't into
    this type of photography and they'll zero in on the white trash bags.
    I showed my "Did you notice the dog" image to someone not in this
    group and they picked out, and picked on, the man over the girl's
    shoulder and the other woman's hand. Those elements weren't
    commented on by anyone here.

    End of essay.
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/
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    rainbowrainbow Registered Users Posts: 2,765 Major grins
    edited July 17, 2012
    Understanding Exposure, or Understanding Digital Photography, by Bryan Peterson: I have seen these recommended as an excellent starter photography books in many threads. I agree and have them on my shelf. First is mostly on ISO, aperture, and shutter speed with the back half being about light. Early chapters of the second one include ISO, aperture, and shutter speed and the interrelationship between these. Middle half on light and composition, last 1/4 on the digital darkroom. List price $24.95.


    The Photographer's Eye, Composition and Design for Better Digital Photos, by Michael Freeman ($29.95)
    Within the Frame, The Journey of Photographic Vision, by David duChemin ($39.95)

    I consider these similar vision/composition books. The first isolates photographic elements more (such as vertical/diagonal lines, contrast, triangles, ...). It is the first of a series of books exploring composition and vision. The second takes a wider angle view with sections such as "Make me care", "Capturing Emotion", "Creating Depth with Layers", etc.
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    michswissmichswiss Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 2,235 Major grins
    edited July 17, 2012
    I'm about to take my first photography course in something over three decades. It's a five week program in Documentary Photography at RMIT. I'll let you know how it goes afterwards and what materials are used. As to first principles past the technical stuff: When asked by others how to improve their shots I normally suggest the "Triple F" mantra as a start. Fill the F'n Frame! Or said more politely, think about composition. Constantly. The subject should be apparent and involving. Negative space is OK as long as it's there for a reason.
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    Quincy TQuincy T Registered Users Posts: 1,090 Major grins
    edited July 17, 2012
    I've always recommended Understanding Exposure to any new photographer I've met. I continue to pick it up to this day.
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    bdcolenbdcolen Registered Users Posts: 3,804 Major grins
    edited July 17, 2012
    Thanks folks, but I'm not looking for book recommendations, I'm asking what you'd like to see in a book devoted to photographing real life: what technical stuff, what philosophy, what not to do, what to do, etc.
    bd@bdcolenphoto.com
    "He not busy being born is busy dying." Bob Dylan

    "The more ambiguous the photograph is, the better it is..." Leonard Freed
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    M38A1M38A1 Registered Users Posts: 1,317 Major grins
    edited July 17, 2012
    Are we 'gonna see some percentage of sales of your new-to-be-written-and-published book for the outline material we provide? :D

    I think most of what you're looking for is probably covered in the various threads posted in this sub-forum, so the research could start there. Or, off the top of my head:

    1. Camera basics
    2. Lighting basics (natural, shadows, reflections)
    3. Camera body/lens combinations (small pocket units vs large DSLR, pros/cons of each)
    4. Composition (Angles, perspectives, leading lines, shadows)
    5. Content (juxtaposition, emotion, what's the story?, action, movement, thought provoking)
    6. Color vs B&W (when to use, pro/con of each)
    7. A brief on the "masters" w/examples
    8. Post processing - basic rules on what is/is not allowed for this type of shooting
    9. Single vs multiple images
    10. Titles vs no titles


    .
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    SyncopationSyncopation Registered Users Posts: 341 Major grins
    edited July 18, 2012
    M38A1 wrote: »
    Are we 'gonna see some percentage of sales of your new-to-be-written-and-published book for the outline material we provide? :D

    I think most of what you're looking for is probably covered in the various threads posted in this sub-forum, so the research could start there. Or, off the top of my head:

    1. Camera basics
    2. Lighting basics (natural, shadows, reflections)
    3. Camera body/lens combinations (small pocket units vs large DSLR, pros/cons of each)
    4. Composition (Angles, perspectives, leading lines, shadows)
    5. Content (juxtaposition, emotion, what's the story?, action, movement, thought provoking)
    6. Color vs B&W (when to use, pro/con of each)
    7. A brief on the "masters" w/examples
    8. Post processing - basic rules on what is/is not allowed for this type of shooting
    9. Single vs multiple images
    10. Titles vs no titles


    .

    I'd add sections on:
    - Legals/Ethics including intended use of images and model releases
    - Street shooting tactics
    - On-line resources (Dgrin, other forums, blogs etc.)
    Syncopation

    The virtue of the camera is not the power it has to transform the photographer into an artist, but the impulse it gives him to keep on looking. - Brook Atkinson- 1951
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    richardmanrichardman Registered Users Posts: 376 Major grins
    edited July 18, 2012
    Forget about technical expositions and camera equipments or online fora. They have been done and most are crap.

    Instead, write essays on how you shoot. How you get the shot, the contact sheet. etc.

    Good photos are obvious.

    So tell us how to get those good photos.
    "Some People Drive, We Are Driven"
    // richard <http://www.richardmanphoto.com&gt;
    richardmanphoto on Facebook and Instagram
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    MarkRMarkR Registered Users Posts: 2,099 Major grins
    edited July 19, 2012
    I think there are some technical things that are unique to the Documentary style: things like zone focusing are only really applicable to the documentary.

    Probably also some words on what is allowable from a PP perspective-- I know journalists work under more strict guidelines than what a landscape photographer might allow.

    Might even point out that most newspapers and publications now print in color. Black and white is fun for classrooms and forum postings.

    A section on Why Bruce Gilden (and similar photographic styles) sucks. (Magnum recently decended onto Rochester, NY and the photographs were universally amazing, except his! Every photo I hated, if I looked at the bottom, there was his name.) http://postcardsfromamerica.tumblr.com/
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    michswissmichswiss Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 2,235 Major grins
    edited July 19, 2012
    Personally, I think working in B&W for an extended period is an important teaching tool to help someone learning documentary to get past the "Oooo Pretty" phase and focus on content, exposure (I know it's technical, but B&W really forces thinking on this) and composition. For that reason by itself, having a section devoted to B&W work is valuable. But I agree with Mark that B&W is somewhat anachronistic as a form for current publications.

    I also don't like bringing a comparison between documentary and photojournalism into the topic as I consider Doco and PJ having different objectives. Still a section on ethics, story telling and how to research and prepare before shooting would be good. On the technical front, I'd only require that participants are reasonably familiar and competent with whatever equipment they intend to shoot and post process with.

    But I think you asked about materials to help teach taking pictures of the real world. In this context, a section on capturing beautiful honest shots of "Family and Friends" would be worthwhile.
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    damonffdamonff Registered Users Posts: 1,894 Major grins
    edited July 19, 2012
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    bdcolenbdcolen Registered Users Posts: 3,804 Major grins
    edited July 19, 2012
    Thanks, folks - keep the suggestions coming!
    bd@bdcolenphoto.com
    "He not busy being born is busy dying." Bob Dylan

    "The more ambiguous the photograph is, the better it is..." Leonard Freed
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    bdcolenbdcolen Registered Users Posts: 3,804 Major grins
    edited July 19, 2012
    If you want to discuss the New Yorker article about the Magnum project, would you please start another thread for that, rather than hijack this one? Thanks
    bd@bdcolenphoto.com
    "He not busy being born is busy dying." Bob Dylan

    "The more ambiguous the photograph is, the better it is..." Leonard Freed
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    MarkRMarkR Registered Users Posts: 2,099 Major grins
    edited July 19, 2012
    bdcolen wrote: »
    If you want to discuss the New Yorker article about the Magnum project, would you please start another thread for that, rather than hijack this one? Thanks

    I deleted my 2nd post and appended a link to my first post as clarification as to why your book needs a "Bruce Gilden sucks" section. thumb.gif.

    (seriously: I think the man just likes to make fun of the way people look. How grade school.)
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    bdcolenbdcolen Registered Users Posts: 3,804 Major grins
    edited July 19, 2012
    Okay, with that, MarkR, I will briefly join the hijacking of my thread - and ask that people then resume making suggestions for what they'd like to see in a photo how-to-shoot-the-real-world book.

    Yes, Bruce Gilden really, really, really sucks - as a photographer, and as a human being. He is a bully with a camera, and how he ever became a Magnum member, albeit toward the end, rather than the beginning of his career, is beyond me. His photos in this New Yorker slide show tell us, show us, less than nothing about Rochester or the people who live in that city - they just show us, once again, his mean spiritedness.

    For that matter, this entire slide show is less than impressive. Okay, I like the Martin Parr shot, and I like the Susan Maiselas shot of the tunnel. But this is the best Magnum has to offer? Sad.
    bd@bdcolenphoto.com
    "He not busy being born is busy dying." Bob Dylan

    "The more ambiguous the photograph is, the better it is..." Leonard Freed
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    rainbowrainbow Registered Users Posts: 2,765 Major grins
    edited July 19, 2012
    Don't know the guy... sounds like I don't want to meet him... ne_nau.gif

    Regarding your request, I would suggest considering many of the photos/comments/learning that comes up on this forum. Why b/w instead of color - show them examples of where the color (esp. red) distracts. No bums -- show many noobies shots of street people being low-hanging fruit... then post your most recent one of guy in park with mirror and ask if that breaks the rule or why it rises above as an exception. Go wider get closer -- show the difference between a shot taken from farther away and one where getting close has a positive impact. Sniping with telephoto -- show good/bad examples. Many of the contentious threads here (and there have been many...) might serve as material for what differentiates good/not so good photos.

    And you might utilize photos from some of the forum members if that forwards your cause...

    Get it on Amazon before they start charging state sales tax... rolleyes1.gif
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    TonyCooperTonyCooper Registered Users Posts: 2,276 Major grins
    edited July 20, 2012
    bdcolen wrote: »
    Thanks, folks - keep the suggestions coming!

    You haven't stated what would be done with the book if written.

    If the book is for your own classwork, you can call the shots on what is
    acceptable, or favored, and what is not. If the book is for general
    distribution, you should consider what other people feel is "the real world".

    Some people feel that bums and other low-hanging fruit are part of this
    real world. Evidently, the unmentionable man has a different concept,
    and some people subscribe to that or he wouldn't be published.

    There's nothing wrong with imposing your own restraints on your
    students, but at least you should address the subject with your
    reasoning. There have been many controversial personalities in
    the field from Arthur Fellig to the unmentionable man. There
    are people who feel that their work is a legitimate form of the genre
    and their critics are engaged in the Grundyism we've seen here
    on occasion.

    If the book gains national distribution, I'll look forward to meeting
    you at Barnes & Noble here at the book signing. I'll bring some
    sniper shots of photos of biker-types who are very real.
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/
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    RichardRichard Administrators, Vanilla Admin Posts: 19,937 moderator
    edited July 20, 2012
    Lots of good suggestions here. I would add a few things: A brief discussion of the ethical and legal issues in shooting strangers would be helpful. I'd also suggest that when discussing composition, you provide examples of both following the rules and successfully breaking them. Come to think of it, that approach might be useful throughout the book, and would certainly set it apart from all the other photography books I have seen.

    I think it's going to be difficult to get everything into 100 pages. Good luck.
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    bdcolenbdcolen Registered Users Posts: 3,804 Major grins
    edited July 20, 2012
    I appreciate the thought people are putting into this. Yes, if I get my butt in gear and write this, I will use it in my classes, but I also see it as being written for as wide an audience as possible. That said, it will be my book, and therefore will, of course, include the "no bums" and "why do you think they're called horizons?" rules - with discussions of both. And discussions of the ethics and law regarding shooting strangers, etc. etc. Keep the thoughts coming, please. All are helpful, whether or not I agree with them, because all provoke thought - yours as well as mine. ;-)
    bd@bdcolenphoto.com
    "He not busy being born is busy dying." Bob Dylan

    "The more ambiguous the photograph is, the better it is..." Leonard Freed
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    TonyCooperTonyCooper Registered Users Posts: 2,276 Major grins
    edited July 20, 2012
    bdcolen wrote: »
    I appreciate the thought people are putting into this. Yes, if I get my butt in gear and write this, I will use it in my classes, but I also see it as being written for as wide an audience as possible. That said, it will be my book, and therefore will, of course, include the "no bums" and "why do you think they're called horizons?" rules - with discussions of both. And discussions of the ethics and law regarding shooting strangers, etc. etc. Keep the thoughts coming, please. All are helpful, whether or not I agree with them, because all provoke thought - yours as well as mine. ;-)

    As you should. However, I would hope that you have the sensitivity not
    to call the homeless, the indigent, and the other lost souls of the street
    "low hanging fruit".

    I sometimes wonder about the reasoning of "no bums". I can walk down ritzy
    Park Avenue in Winter Park (FL) and shoot and post images of the well-to-do
    lunching at the outdoor tables of the expensive restaurants and have my
    photograph critiqued only for composition and processing. But, if I walk
    down an equal distance on Orange Blossom Trail, and shoot the denizens of
    that part of town who may be lunching from dumpsters, the subject can be
    the critiqued aspect.

    What's the difference? As the photographer, I'm capturing "real life" in
    either instance. If we are going to intrude on the privacy of others -
    sniping or in their face - why is one fair game but not the other? Don't
    the ethics apply to any unaware stranger regardless of social standing?

    Don't mind me, BJ. Contrarians provoke thought, too.
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/
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    bdcolenbdcolen Registered Users Posts: 3,804 Major grins
    edited July 20, 2012
    TonyCooper wrote: »
    As you should. However, I would hope that you have the sensitivity not
    to call the homeless, the indigent, and the other lost souls of the street
    "low hanging fruit".

    I sometimes wonder about the reasoning of "no bums". I can walk down ritzy
    Park Avenue in Winter Park (FL) and shoot and post images of the well-to-do
    lunching at the outdoor tables of the expensive restaurants and have my
    photograph critiqued only for composition and processing. But, if I walk
    down an equal distance on Orange Blossom Trail, and shoot the denizens of
    that part of town who may be lunching from dumpsters, the subject can be
    the critiqued aspect.

    What's the difference? As the photographer, I'm capturing "real life" in
    either instance. If we are going to intrude on the privacy of others -
    sniping or in their face - why is one fair game but not the other? Don't
    the ethics apply to any unaware stranger regardless of social standing?

    Don't mind me, BJ. Contrarians provoke thought, too.

    Okay, here goes...First off, I think most of us give far little thought to why we are making a given image. What is inherently interesting about someone sitting at a table eating lunch? Or why do we photograph a "rich" woman window shopping? Most - not all - such images really are quite dull; they don't tell us anything we don't already know; and most such image aren't particularly graphically, compositionally, interesting. I'm not comment on your images, I'm just saying that we somehow think that if something common and actually quite mundane is happening in public, it somehow becomes worthy of photographing.

    As to the concept of invading the privacy of people who are out in public - they have no privacy to invade. If they want privacy, they should go some place private. So why should the "rich" and not the poor? The answer is quite simple: most of those who are - in my opinion - entitled to the protection of my "no bums" rule are seriously damaged human beings. They are either mentally ill, or so chemically dependent that they can't successfully function in society. They are entitled to protection, if not from the state, then from me as a photographer.

    And taking a photograph of someone laying in a doorway, or rummaging through a dumpster, doesn't make one Eugene Smith. If someone wants to do a project on the plight of the homeless, the mentally ill, fine. Do it. Get to know the people. Tell them what you're doing. Interact with them. Show them some respect.

    The "rich," on the other hand, can look out for themselves; they don't need me to protect them from themselves.

    You asked. I answered. I maybe wrong, but I'm not going to debate. :D
    bd@bdcolenphoto.com
    "He not busy being born is busy dying." Bob Dylan

    "The more ambiguous the photograph is, the better it is..." Leonard Freed
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    TonyCooperTonyCooper Registered Users Posts: 2,276 Major grins
    edited July 20, 2012
    bdcolen wrote: »

    You asked. I answered. I maybe wrong, but I'm not going to debate. :D

    Fair enough, but this - your rationale - might be something to cover
    in the book. Not just "don't do it", but "here's why I think you shouldn't
    do it".

    See...it's on topic.
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    http://tonycooper.smugmug.com/
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    bdcolenbdcolen Registered Users Posts: 3,804 Major grins
    edited July 20, 2012
    TonyCooper wrote: »
    Fair enough, but this - your rationale - might be something to cover
    in the book. Not just "don't do it", but "here's why I think you shouldn't
    do it".

    See...it's on topic.

    Oh, it will be...in the book. rolleyes1.gif
    bd@bdcolenphoto.com
    "He not busy being born is busy dying." Bob Dylan

    "The more ambiguous the photograph is, the better it is..." Leonard Freed
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    karloznzkarloznz Registered Users Posts: 126 Major grins
    edited July 20, 2012
    Go read thanks for contributions.


    Carl Lea Wedding and event photographer - Wellington - Web Site
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    PattiPatti Registered Users Posts: 1,576 Major grins
    edited July 22, 2012
    Manual pre-focusing techniques / theory. Explain DOF tables for same.
    The use of a camera is similar to that of a knife. You can use it to peel potatoes, or carve a flute. ~ E. Kahlmeyer
    ... I'm still peeling potatoes.

    patti hinton photography
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