In the name of religion II (sensitive)

D3SshooterD3Sshooter Registered Users Posts: 1,187 Major grins
edited August 8, 2012 in People
This is the second in the series " In the name of religion" . A series to be used for my thesis.
Note that it is by no means intended to hurt or harm people.

This specific picture is what happened some time ago in Bruges, a priest who abused little boys. The Cardinal did cover it up for years. That is the story line in this picture.
Religion3-5-of-1-XL.jpg


Update :
Religion2-5-of-1-XL.jpg


Update II considering the comments and tips:
itnor-1-of-1-X3.jpg
A photographer without a style, is like a pub without beer

Comments

  • Bryce WilsonBryce Wilson Registered Users Posts: 1,586 Major grins
    edited August 4, 2012
    Disturbing image. But, that is the whole point right?

    There seems to be some distortion on the right side of the image that bothers me. The door and brick wall just don't look right. Was it done with a wide angle lens?
  • DaverDaver Registered Users Posts: 104 Major grins
    edited August 4, 2012
    Powerful image .... well done
  • D3SshooterD3Sshooter Registered Users Posts: 1,187 Major grins
    edited August 4, 2012
    Bryce Wilson wrote: »
    Disturbing image. But, that is the whole point right?

    There seems to be some distortion on the right side of the image that bothers me. The door and brick wall just don't look right. Was it done with a wide angle lens?

    Yep , I used a 12-24mm wide angle as the room is rather small. TXS
    A photographer without a style, is like a pub without beer
  • YaflyyadieYaflyyadie Registered Users Posts: 558 Major grins
    edited August 4, 2012
    As Bryce said, there is some distortion caused by the wide angle lens, but the message is more powerful than that distortion.
    Great job as much as the former photos.
    Congrats.
    Carlos
  • SamSam Registered Users Posts: 7,419 Major grins
    edited August 4, 2012
    Again a powerful image. One question. Do you plan on including any positive images in your book? This is just a question, no hidden agenda.

    Now on the the technical aspect of the image. As others has said there is a fair amout of distortion. I popped this low rez image into PS5 and was able with lens correction and warp to eliminate the most objectionable distortions.

    Sam
    www.samlinvillephotography.com
  • D3SshooterD3Sshooter Registered Users Posts: 1,187 Major grins
    edited August 4, 2012
    Sam wrote: »
    Again a powerful image. One question. Do you plan on including any positive images in your book? This is just a question, no hidden agenda.

    Now on the the technical aspect of the image. As others has said there is a fair amout of distortion. I popped this low rez image into PS5 and was able with lens correction and warp to eliminate the most objectionable distortions.

    Sam

    Thanks Sam, Why don'y you post the correction ?

    I am working on two books a dark one (for these pictures) and a white one ( for the positive aspects).

    For the moment I am filling the dark side. It takes some time as I have to set all things in scene.
    A photographer without a style, is like a pub without beer
  • anonymouscubananonymouscuban Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 4,586 Major grins
    edited August 4, 2012
    Another really cool shot DS. I think I'm leaning towards the color one on this. It's hard to tell in the B&W that the clothing is that of a child. BTW, I looked at the images before I read the text and the message was quite clear. Great job.
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  • SamSam Registered Users Posts: 7,419 Major grins
    edited August 4, 2012
    OK, Here is a quick fix.

    Sam
    i-HhPcZKq-L.jpg
    www.samlinvillephotography.com
  • D3SshooterD3Sshooter Registered Users Posts: 1,187 Major grins
    edited August 4, 2012
    Sam wrote: »
    OK, Here is a quick fix.

    Sam
    i-HhPcZKq-L.jpg

    TXS, I guess I should do this on the original picture. There I have more space around the bed and walls.
    A photographer without a style, is like a pub without beer
  • dogwooddogwood Registered Users Posts: 2,572 Major grins
    edited August 4, 2012
    I'm going to be honest - if you hadn't given the photo a caption, I would not have understood. And I'm very familiar with the subject matter (I covered the local abuse cases as a reporter among other things). There's something that seems consensual about this though. The clothes on the floor don't look like children's clothes and they're kind of piled normally.

    Also, I think it's worth pointing out that this clergy sex abuse has been limited to the Catholic church in particular and has been going on for hundreds of years in that church. Using a title like, "In the name of religion" is a bit misleading since the majority of religions in the world (hindu, buddist, islam, other christian religions) do not have a history of allowing and covering up sex abuse.

    Just my two-cents anyway and that's not worth much these days at all.
    Portland, Oregon Photographer Pete Springer
    website blog instagram facebook g+

  • Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited August 4, 2012
    I like the images....but the B/W one the best....as to the distortion, it is not in the least distracting to me...infact in light of the "darkness" of the message I think it even helps a bit...but that is just my extremely humble opin.

    Thanx for sharing.
    "Genuine Fractals was, is and will always be the best solution for enlarging digital photos." ....Vincent Versace ... ... COPYRIGHT YOUR WORK ONLINE ... ... My Website

  • Bryce WilsonBryce Wilson Registered Users Posts: 1,586 Major grins
    edited August 4, 2012
    Art Scott wrote: »
    ...but that is just my extremely humble opin.

    Thanx for sharing.

    A humble photographer? Never thought I'd live to see the day! :D
  • Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited August 5, 2012
    Bryce Wilson wrote: »
    A humble photographer? Never thought I'd live to see the day! :D

    Namaste ... ... ...bowdown.gif
    "Genuine Fractals was, is and will always be the best solution for enlarging digital photos." ....Vincent Versace ... ... COPYRIGHT YOUR WORK ONLINE ... ... My Website

  • RichardRichard Administrators, Vanilla Admin Posts: 19,959 moderator
    edited August 5, 2012
    Excellent image. The color version works better for me.
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  • D3SshooterD3Sshooter Registered Users Posts: 1,187 Major grins
    edited August 5, 2012
    @ Dogwood

    Here some answers and explanations;
    I'm going to be honest - if you hadn't given the photo a caption, I would not have understood. And I'm very familiar with the subject matter (I covered the local abuse cases as a reporter among other things). There's something that seems consensual about this though. The clothes on the floor don't look like children's clothes and they're kind of piled normally.

    Interesting, maybe because of the small seize of the picture. Some others just state that it is a bit to clear... So I will have to find the middle road by adjusting the composition to more explicit while keeping it more subtile. Maybe I need to add a few adult shoe's to it, so that the difference can be seen and the priest dress on the wall might be better on a coat-hanger.

    Also, I think it's worth pointing out that this clergy sex abuse has been limited to the Catholic church in particular and has been going on for hundreds of years in that church. Using a title like, "In the name of religion" is a bit misleading since the majority of religions in the world (hindu, buddist, islam, other christian religions) do not have a history of allowing and covering up sex abuse.

    Indeed, however do not look just at this picture see it is part of a whole series spanning all religions . The series points out what people do to others and justify their acts through religion. Like in this shot a priest has sex with a little boy, what did he tell the little boy ? He uses his position of power . Secondly the Cardinal (red) turns his back to the crime, knowing very well what is happening but will cover it up so save the image of the institute in name of the religion.....


    Just my two-cents anyway and that's not worth much these days at all.

    Oh yes it is, and appreciated.
    A photographer without a style, is like a pub without beer
  • D3SshooterD3Sshooter Registered Users Posts: 1,187 Major grins
    edited August 5, 2012
    @ Art, Bryce and Yafli ( i hope i did not forget some) Thanks for viewing an commenting.
    A photographer without a style, is like a pub without beer
  • puzzledpaulpuzzledpaul Registered Users Posts: 1,621 Major grins
    edited August 5, 2012
    The non-vertical bed end of the corrected image is more noticeable (to me) than any distortion in the original.

    If the col version could be tweaked to be 'grubbier' - as the B+W is ... then it'd be even better than it already is (imo).
    For the subject matter, I think col. has too many links / ties to be removed from the mix.

    pp
    Website

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  • dogwooddogwood Registered Users Posts: 2,572 Major grins
    edited August 5, 2012
    D3Sshooter wrote: »
    Indeed, however do not look just at this picture see it is part of a whole series spanning all religions . The series points out what people do to others and justify their acts through religion. Like in this shot a priest has sex with a little boy, what did he tell the little boy ? He uses his position of power . Secondly the Cardinal (red) turns his back to the crime, knowing very well what is happening but will cover it up so save the image of the institute in name of the religion.....

    Well, again, it's not all religions. This sexual abuse has been an troubling pattern within the Catholic church -- the majority of religions (including other forms of Christianity) don't have a history of pedophile priests/clergy. May seem a minor point but an important one to me anyway. This pattern of pedophile clergy is not connected to religion in general, but it is very clearly linked to the Catholic church. Might as well call it like it is and not call out religion in general.

    Anyway, I do think different size shoes and the floor would help tell the story better - maybe ripped clothes in more of a disheveled heap on the floor too?
    Portland, Oregon Photographer Pete Springer
    website blog instagram facebook g+

  • JCJC Registered Users Posts: 768 Major grins
    edited August 5, 2012
    dogwood wrote: »

    Also, I think it's worth pointing out that this clergy sex abuse has been limited to the Catholic church in particular and has been going on for hundreds of years in that church. Using a title like, "In the name of religion" is a bit misleading since the majority of religions in the world (hindu, buddist, islam, other christian religions) do not have a history of allowing and covering up sex abuse.

    Just my two-cents anyway and that's not worth much these days at all.

    Not true

    Biggest Buddhist temple near me did exactly that, transferred an abusive Monk from temple to temple but continued to let him work with kids. There are been child abuse scandals in churches of all ilk, across the U.S and across the world.

    The Catholic church is the biggest organized religious institute, worlds largest private landowner, 3rd largest in general, and as a result they have the most power.

    They are just the largest player in the game, and have recently got all the news.

    While the Catholic Church may be the most egregious offender, if you look at other religions as well, they are not innocent of this kind of abuse of authority.
    Yeah, if you recognize the avatar, new user name.
  • divamumdivamum Registered Users Posts: 9,021 Major grins
    edited August 5, 2012
    This whole series is shaping up to be very provocative, interesting, and well-thought out. I have a feeling once all the images are juxtaposed that the story you're telling will be clear. Very thought-provoking and intelligent work, DS3. thumb.gif

    Photographically, I think I actually *like* the distortion in the first one - I think suits the distorted nature of the content.
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  • D3SshooterD3Sshooter Registered Users Posts: 1,187 Major grins
    edited August 5, 2012
    divamum wrote: »
    This whole series is shaping up to be very provocative, interesting, and well-thought out. I have a feeling once all the images are juxtaposed that the story you're telling will be clear. Very thought-provoking and intelligent work, DS3. thumb.gif

    Photographically, I think I actually *like* the distortion in the first one - I think suits the distorted nature of the content.

    TXS, indeed once completed it will be provocative and down to the point. Some pictures will upset people while others will appreciate them. I will not judge, I only wanted to create my view in an artistic way.

    I have added a corrected version with no distortion (or less ) and some extra elements.

    itnor-1-of-1-X3.jpg
    A photographer without a style, is like a pub without beer
  • dogwooddogwood Registered Users Posts: 2,572 Major grins
    edited August 5, 2012
    kolibri wrote: »
    Not true

    Biggest Buddhist temple near me did exactly that, transferred an abusive Monk from temple to temple but continued to let him work with kids. There are been child abuse scandals in churches of all ilk, across the U.S and across the world.

    The Catholic church is the biggest organized religious institute, worlds largest private landowner, 3rd largest in general, and as a result they have the most power.

    They are just the largest player in the game, and have recently got all the news.

    While the Catholic Church may be the most egregious offender, if you look at other religions as well, they are not innocent of this kind of abuse of authority.

    Sexual abuse at one Buddhist temple does not equal a systematic cover-up of clergy sex-abuse that has been taking place on a worldwide level for hundreds of years within the Catholic church.

    There are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. There are 1.18 billion Catholics (according to the Vatican). How in the world does that make the Catholic church the "biggest religious institute"?

    Isolated incidents of child sex abuse in other religions do not even remotely compare to what has been taking place in the Catholic church on a global level literally for hundreds of years. There are currently thousands of Catholic clergy child sex abuse survivors living right now.

    My point is that by attributing these horrific acts to "religion" in general is simply not accurate and further buries the truth and let's the Catholic church off the hook. The Catholic church needs to be held accountable for the actions and coverups that have been taking place (again, for hundreds of years). It's not "religion" -- it's "the catholic church" in particular that is the problem. There's a huge difference.

    Imagine for a moment that we attribute the child sex abuse in the Boy Scouts simply to "youth groups". Problem is it's not the youth groups in general that have been the problem, it's the Boy Scouts.

    I believe beating around the bush is part of the problem because people just shrug and say, "Oh, it's organized religion." When in reality, the problem is with one particular religious institution - the Catholic Church.
    Portland, Oregon Photographer Pete Springer
    website blog instagram facebook g+

  • jonh68jonh68 Registered Users Posts: 2,711 Major grins
    edited August 5, 2012
    While it's a provocative image and I cannot tolerate child abuse of any kind, the problem isn't religion, it's a human problem. True religion looks out after the helpless. All institutions have problems. Sadly, the one institution that is about morals will always be a hypocrite since it is made up of humans.

    PS, I like the distorted version and is symbolic of the actor in the picture having a distorted view of religion.
    www.jonimages.com
  • JCJC Registered Users Posts: 768 Major grins
    edited August 5, 2012
    dogwood wrote: »
    Sexual abuse at one Buddhist temple does not equal a systematic cover-up of clergy sex-abuse that has been taking place on a worldwide level for hundreds of years within the Catholic church.

    There are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. There are 1.18 billion Catholics (according to the Vatican). How in the world does that make the Catholic church the "biggest religious institute"?

    Isolated incidents of child sex abuse in other religions do not even remotely compare to what has been taking place in the Catholic church on a global level literally for hundreds of years. There are currently thousands of Catholic clergy child sex abuse survivors living right now.

    My point is that by attributing these horrific acts to "religion" in general is simply not accurate and further buries the truth and let's the Catholic church off the hook. The Catholic church needs to be held accountable for the actions and coverups that have been taking place (again, for hundreds of years). It's not "religion" -- it's "the catholic church" in particular that is the problem. There's a huge difference.

    Imagine for a moment that we attribute the child sex abuse in the Boy Scouts simply to "youth groups". Problem is it's not the youth groups in general that have been the problem, it's the Boy Scouts.

    I believe beating around the bush is part of the problem because people just shrug and say, "Oh, it's organized religion." When in reality, the problem is with one particular religious institution - the Catholic Church.

    This is not the place for a long drawn out conversation about how religious teaching to submit blindly/faithfully to authority can perhaps set the scene to be ripe for abuse....

    but a few factual comments as relate to the subject and title of this photographic series-

    Islam is no more a monolithic religion that Christianity is. The Catholic church, under the pope, lays claim to more followers than any of the schisms of Islam- that is how it can be called the biggest religious institute.

    The title of the series is 'in the name of religion', as given here. If you read the documents coming out of the catholic church, especially those of Ratzinger, yes, they justify what they did 'in the name of religion' the end justified the means, better to let abuse continue and go unpunished, than the authority of the Catholic church be questioned or given over to civil authorities.

    There are enough examples from other organized religions to show this theme is not exclusive to the Catholic church; so, A) it's pretty clear from the vestements that this picture is targeting Catholic crimes so your main objection is somewhat overruled by the content of the picture, but, even if the photographer wanted to highlight abuse committed by members of other denominations, it would still fit the theme, as I think this sort of abuse and cover-up can be found in many other sects as well. Should they be any less horrific to any single victim because of the scale of the Catholic church cover up?
    Yeah, if you recognize the avatar, new user name.
  • dogwooddogwood Registered Users Posts: 2,572 Major grins
    edited August 6, 2012
    kolibri wrote: »
    This is not the place for a long drawn out conversation about how religious teaching to submit blindly/faithfully to authority can perhaps set the scene to be ripe for abuse....

    but a few factual comments as relate to the subject and title of this photographic series-

    Islam is no more a monolithic religion that Christianity is. The Catholic church, under the pope, lays claim to more followers than any of the schisms of Islam- that is how it can be called the biggest religious institute.

    The title of the series is 'in the name of religion', as given here. If you read the documents coming out of the catholic church, especially those of Ratzinger, yes, they justify what they did 'in the name of religion' the end justified the means, better to let abuse continue and go unpunished, than the authority of the Catholic church be questioned or given over to civil authorities.

    There are enough examples from other organized religions to show this theme is not exclusive to the Catholic church; so, A) it's pretty clear from the vestements that this picture is targeting Catholic crimes so your main objection is somewhat overruled by the content of the picture, but, even if the photographer wanted to highlight abuse committed by members of other denominations, it would still fit the theme, as I think this sort of abuse and cover-up can be found in many other sects as well. Should they be any less horrific to any single victim because of the scale of the Catholic church cover up?

    Very good points and a well thought out response.
    Portland, Oregon Photographer Pete Springer
    website blog instagram facebook g+

  • SamSam Registered Users Posts: 7,419 Major grins
    edited August 6, 2012
    Based on the passionate dialog generated by the images, I believe D3Sshooter's attempt to provoke thought on the dark side of religion is proving to be very successful.

    Sam
    www.samlinvillephotography.com
  • FoquesFoques Registered Users Posts: 1,951 Major grins
    edited August 6, 2012
    I absolutely love the original, color shot. Distortion and all. I think it works spectacularly.
    multiple kinds of garb, pose, exposure.. everything jut works for me!

    Awesome work!
    Arseny - the too honest guy.
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  • YaflyyadieYaflyyadie Registered Users Posts: 558 Major grins
    edited August 8, 2012
    Sam wrote: »
    Based on the passionate dialog generated by the images, I believe D3Sshooter's attempt to provoke thought on the dark side of religion is proving to be very successful.

    Sam

    Very good point, Sam.
    Agree 100%
    Carlos
  • D3SshooterD3Sshooter Registered Users Posts: 1,187 Major grins
    edited August 8, 2012
    Thanks everybody, I am pleased to see that a single picture can start such in depth discussions. I will not judge them, just absorb them. It gives me a good feeling for my thesis / portfolio that it has content. Maybe not perfect, but it makes people think whatever it might be.

    I am also pleased to see that we can have polite discussions with different angles of interpretation without falling into verbal aggression. Much appreciated
    A photographer without a style, is like a pub without beer
  • anonymouscubananonymouscuban Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 4,586 Major grins
    edited August 8, 2012
    D3Sshooter wrote: »
    [I am also pleased to see that we can have polite discussions with different angles of interpretation without falling into verbal aggression. Much appreciated
    [/I]

    Yes. Thanks everyone for keeping this civil and on point. clap.gifclap
    "I'm not yelling. I'm Cuban. That's how we talk."

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