D800 & remote flashes tend to suck.

EphTwoEight · August 6, 2012

With my D300 it worked wonderfully. And every time, now its only if its dark enough, and directly in line of site of the little sensor.

I've got an SB910 coming, but if acts the same way, I will really be let down. I was hoping I didnt need to buy more crap to trigger the flashes. Also read on other sites same issues, but no solutions.

babowc · August 9, 2012

Are you using Nikon CLS?..
If you're setting up remote flashes, they HAVE to be in the line of sight of the camera/sensor, that's how CLS works..
My D800 works fine with a SB26 and SB900.

Zerodog · August 9, 2012

CLS is a tricky thing. I will have great success sometimes and struggle other times. General rule is if I can see my sensor, my flashes fire. But this goes downhill when outside. Inside I find it is much more reliable. So in the end, I now have pocket wizards. But I still use CLS in some situations.

Adding the 910 as a master will help greatly. My SB900 has a much bigger spread of light to send the signal. The only downside is you feel like you are wasting a great light just to send a signal to other lights. Your hit rate will be better in all situations using the flash.

EphTwoEight · August 9, 2012

Yeah, that too is a let down. I thought CLS was cool was cool, until now. I suppose I could use the SB800 to trigger the 910. Hope I can make it all work.

perroneford · August 10, 2012

I've never even considered triggering flashes without radio triggers. I wouldn't know how to do it otherwise.

EphTwoEight · August 10, 2012

perroneford wrote: »

I've never even considered triggering flashes without radio triggers. I wouldn't know how to do it otherwise.

Well, another reason I didnt want to use the canons, to me its more crap dangling from the camera, more batteries, more costs etc. And with my D300, I used that CLS several times in all sorts of conditions, and never had an issue not firing. Now I try to call Nikon, and they wont even answer the phone. I have no brand loyalty, if I could dump it all right now for what I'm into it... Well, I suppose I need to try the new 910, and the firmware update before I rant anymore. But right now I'm :bash

babowc · August 10, 2012

I just tried my D800 and SB900/SB26..
I set up the flashes in a different room and shot a frame without the camera being in the line of sight and mine still worked..:/

Zerodog · August 10, 2012

babowc wrote: »

I just tried my D800 and SB900/SB26..
I set up the flashes in a different room and shot a frame without the camera being in the line of sight and mine still worked..:/

That was just luck. It all has to do with the bounce. Inside there can be many surfaces for the light to bounce off of and trigger your remote flashes. Outside not so much. And it can be the luck of the draw inside too. Diff color walls, high ceilings, ???? I have had great luck and terrible luck inside and outside with CLS.. I am very glad I know how to use it and know its limits.

EphTwoEight · August 12, 2012

Got the SB910, that is a NICE flash! And goofing off in the house, its been quite good. I'll need to play with it some more still, but now I can use the SB800 as the master and the 910 as the remote and hopefully that will trigger the 910 outdoors.

Mitchell · August 12, 2012

I love my SU-800. This gives me a greater range than the on camera flash for triggering remotes and is also very easy to adjust. It's also much smaller and lighter than using an on camera SB900/SB800 for just triggering and not adding any light.

Ferguson · August 19, 2012

I have used CLS outdoors in bright sun at a beach with very good luck. You have to be in line of sight of course (which I frequently forget and step back/sideways/etc too frequently), but I see no difference in how well it works on the D800 and my older D300. That's with the D800 itself as commander -- it's also no different with my SB800 as commander, but most times I use the D800 as then I get one more off-camera flash to work with.

I saw all the noise just after introduction about CLS problems but I have not seen a single one, and I notice unlike the focus issues, all the noise went away after no one reliably reproduced it.

One day I may get radio triggers, but in the meantime, CLS works very nicely.

EphTwoEight · August 19, 2012

Yeah if I use the SB800 as the commander, it tends to work. But again last night, I set the SB910 behind a big old tombstone, and used the built in flash, and it wouldnt fire it. It was pitch black out there. Thought for sure it would have. Maybe the SU800 would have?? But those are spendy. I pulled it off to the side and it fired. Very frustrating.

babowc · August 20, 2012

SB910 or not, if it doesn't have a clear line-of-sight.. you're gambling with CLS, IMO.
I tried with my SB26 and SB900 indoors and it worked 4/5 tries.
I'll report back with my results for outdoors.

Ferguson · August 21, 2012

EphTwoEight wrote: »

But again last night, I set the SB910 behind a big old tombstone, and used the built in flash, and it wouldnt fire it.

I get the expectation that in the dark reflected light should/might reach it, but the CLS system is not just a case of a remote trigger, it has to exchange detailed, coded data in those milliseconds. Picture a flash seeing the pre-flashes by reflection -- if it's just one reflection great, but suppose it is several, coming off numerous nearby objects in different directions. Can it work? Sure, but the more interference you place between the two the less likely. Think old style radio and TV in cities, rabbit ears, etc... remember the ghosting you would so, from reflections off buildings that screw up the signal. Not quite the same idea (as these are more off/on encoded not AM or FM), but similar problems.

For something like that you really need RF triggers, like pocket wizards. Something I want, but CLS works enough of the time I just haven't reached the point of wanting to spring for them.

At least you had an excuse of a tombstone between. I tend to fail mostly because I move a flash from left-side to right-side and forget to turn the body around.

EphTwoEight · August 21, 2012

Haha, good points!

Does the Canon 5D3 have actual wireless built in?

ziggy53 · August 21, 2012

EphTwoEight wrote: »

Haha, good points!

Does the Canon 5D3 have actual wireless built in?

I believe that the Canon 5D MKIII has an optical wireless capability, similar to the Nikon CLS wireless system, and with similar problems.

If you mean a radio wireless capability, I don't believe that any camera manufacturer has that built-in to the camera, ... yet.

For now, Canon has produced a radio transmitter wireless master which works with a new flash which has a complimentary radio wireless slave capability. (ST-E3-RT and 600EX-RT respectively.)

For both Canon and for Nikon there are much less expensive radio wireless solutions available, depending upon your needs. (Basic radio master/slave sets for manual flash are very inexpensive.)

EphTwoEight · August 22, 2012

Ok, good to know. Kinda miss my D300 the more I use the 800.

babowc · August 22, 2012

That's redculous!

EphTwoEight · August 22, 2012

babowc wrote: »

That's redculous!

!

Well, I didnt expect that much from it, but it always performed awesomely, CLS always worked, and even low light it was fine.

I guess I expected more out of this 36MP FF camera, and so far, meh, its ok.

Matthew Saville · August 22, 2012

EphTwoEight wrote: »

Yeah if I use the SB800 as the commander, it tends to work. But again last night, I set the SB910 behind a big old tombstone, and used the built in flash, and it wouldnt fire it. It was pitch black out there. Thought for sure it would have. Maybe the SU800 would have?? But those are spendy. I pulled it off to the side and it fired. Very frustrating.

Dude, story of my life. IR wireless flash has NEVER been totally reliable, and I don't think the D800 is a significant step forward or backward compared to the D300 or any other camera. I shot for 4+ years using a D300 and CLS, and that situation you described about having to move the flash into the line-of-sight is exactly what would happen to me all the time too.

Anyways, all you need is a cheap set of triggers for $60 or something. Done. It'll fire every time. If you shoot around corners or behind objects, this is honestly the only way to go.

Or if you're madly in love with the ability to change your flashe's settings remotely, from the back of your camera like the pop-up flash allows you to do with Nikon CLS, ...then you'll have to pony up for something more expensive like the Radio Popper system.

Or, you could always trade my beat-up old D300 for your D800!

=Matt=

babowc · August 22, 2012

Is that what the more expensive triggers like pocket wizards do, that cheap Chinese rf triggers doesn't do? TTL?

ziggy53 · August 22, 2012

babowc wrote: »

Is that what the more expensive triggers like pocket wizards do, that cheap Chinese rf triggers doesn't do? TTL?

Pocket Wizards have a broad line of products, from simple trigger systems through systems that do relay TTL signals.

Some of the import systems also relay TTL signals. It would be wrong to characterize all systems by their point of manufacture.

EphTwoEight · August 23, 2012

Matthew Saville wrote: »

Dude, story of my life. IR wireless flash has NEVER been totally reliable, and I don't think the D800 is a significant step forward or backward compared to the D300 or any other camera. I shot for 4+ years using a D300 and CLS, and that situation you described about having to move the flash into the line-of-sight is exactly what would happen to me all the time too.

Anyways, all you need is a cheap set of triggers for $60 or something. Done. It'll fire every time. If you shoot around corners or behind objects, this is honestly the only way to go.

Or if you're madly in love with the ability to change your flashe's settings remotely, from the back of your camera like the pop-up flash allows you to do with Nikon CLS, ...then you'll have to pony up for something more expensive like the Radio Popper system.

Or, you could always trade my beat-up old D300 for your D800!

=Matt=

!:D

Well...

How about a link to the $60 triggers you speak of. Im sure there are lots out there, but if theres a specific trusted cheap one you know of, let me know. I just rarely use this feature, and dont want to spend much more on it. But... I'm tempted on a 300mm 2.8!

Matthew Saville · August 23, 2012

EphTwoEight wrote: »

!:D

Well...

How about a link to the $60 triggers you speak of. Im sure there are lots out there, but if theres a specific trusted cheap one you know of, let me know. I just rarely use this feature, and dont want to spend much more on it. But... I'm tempted on a 300mm 2.8!

Search for Yongnuo, Cowboy Studio, Blackbelt Lighting, and Cactus. Those are some of the "better" cheap systems out there. They're not as good quality as a PW, of course, but they get the job done if you just use them in simple conditions every now and then.

=Matt=

EphTwoEight · August 25, 2012

Matthew Saville wrote: »

Search for Yongnuo, Cowboy Studio, Blackbelt Lighting, and Cactus. Those are some of the "better" cheap systems out there. They're not as good quality as a PW, of course, but they get the job done if you just use them in simple conditions every now and then.

=Matt=

Cool thanks!

babowc · August 25, 2012

Yesterday, I took my sb900 and sb26 out for a little field day out at the park in the sunset.
I was using a 70-200, shooting with sunset as the backgroud and used my tripod to mount the flash(es).
I was about 15-18 ft away, with the sensor facing the camera and I think the success ratio on the 900 was less probably 2/6 whereas the sb26 actually had a decent success rate.
I had both flashes on the ground, side by side, and it was still about the same.

Needless to say, I see where the OP is coming from.
Frustration!!

I will try it again and post back!
*however, i also had exposure issues.

divamum · August 26, 2012

Pixel Kings. Under $200 for 2x ETTL/manual triggers (plus transmitter).

I agree that there are plenty of things you can do with line-of-sight triggers if you're attentive to positioning - I've been shooting with my STE2 and Canon flashes for a couple of years now in all conditions, just being very careful about where the sensors are (and I typically don't shoot in bright sunlight) - but the freedom the radio triggers bring is AWESOME. I didn't want to give up ETTL - and didn't have the $ for the PW ettl system - so I decided to try the PK's and have been very happy with them on their first two outings.

D800 & remote flashes tend to suck.

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