What would YOU do?

jandrewnelson

In April I did a month long photoshoot for a non-profit group that works with veterans in a therapeutic program built around trout fishing. My assignment was to get "touchy-feely" type shots for them to use on their website, brochures and marketing material.

When the gig was over after four weeks I handed $150.00 (had agreed on $1000.00) and told "thanks". Since then I've been trying to collect the balance of the money owed; with no success.

This morning in my email I got a "promotional" piece that they sent out and low-and-behold, there is one of my shots!

I've got a few ideas of what I'd like to do, but wanted to hear some input from calmer folks with some guidance and suggestions.

There are four galleries involved in the month long gig, but this is the gallery that contains the specific photo in question.

Click here to see the specific photo.

And here is a screen capture of the email:

Your thoughts?
Jerry Nelson
www.smugmug.meesoon.com

Sam

I guess I am at a total loss for words. You seem to have an agent who negotiates and has the responsibility for written contracts. Why aren't they dealing with this?

If you negotiated this yourself, did you have a written contract? After looking at your website, you present yourself as an experienced professional photographer with agent representation. If you didn't have a written contract, (even an e-mail with the specifics) shame on you.

Did you cash the check for $150.00? In my opinion it would be better if you had refused this check.
As for them using the image. Well they paid you for it? At least in their minds, and maybe the courts mind as well.

More details are needed in order to really provide good solid ideas.

Sam

jandrewnelson

Sam wrote: »

You seem to have an agent who negotiates and has the responsibility for written contracts. Why aren't they dealing with this?

This gig was shot BEFORE I signed with the agent. Matter-of-fact, they are ALSO involved in this. I was steamed when I posted this and just wanted additional ideas.

If you negotiated this yourself, did you have a written contract? After looking at your website, you present yourself as an experienced professional photographer with agent representation. If you didn't have a written contract, (even an e-mail with the specifics) shame on you.

Yep, written contract is in place and is being reviewed by attorneys, but again, like I said, I was so damn pissed when I saw this email this morning.

Thanks!

Sam

I understand 'steamed" Now is the time to calmly go about enforcing the contract.

I will assume the contract was fulfilled.

Have you contacted the person who signed the contact? If so what was their response? The next step would depend on their response. Did they complain you didn't fulfill your contract? Did they make excuses, check is in the mail, the guy who need to sign the check is in Istanbul, etc ? Are they willing to talk about it?

Obviously if this can be settled without attorneys and courts it would be better.

But if not........................

In my humble opinion this can be pretty simple. It's a contract. It's only $1000.00. Attorneys will eat that up before breakfast. Small claims should do it.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

Sam

Glort

I learned the hard way years ago, NEVER hand over images without you get a cheque handed back at the same time.

Yep, I do it for every corporate/ Commercial no matter who they are. The bigger they are the more opportunity for duck shoving and passing the buck so they especially don't get any dispensation.

I have very little to no problem with this policy. Most of the ones I have dealt with over the last couple of years have done direct deposits before the event. Extra effort then goes into the shoot for them! :0)

As far as I am concerned, legal ramifications are useless. Even with small claims as Sam mentions, here at least if they don't pay you have to from the pretend court and waste time putting together documentation and the case structure and there is the frustration ( Steamed) that Plays on your (mine Anyway) that kills your creativity and productivity and fill you with negative thoughts.

For anything I'd do that a person wouldn't need an up front payment for, Whatever amount is involved is not going to be worth the hassle. I have yet to loose a job asking for upfront payment although I have been questioned about it and I say as a small business I don't have the luxury of an accounts department to keep track of what has been paid and what's owed so I need to streamline the process by knowing everything is paid autocratically on completion. That seems to have satisfied the few that have asked.

If I do ever loose a job by asking for payment on delivery, I won't be worried because I know the minute I have to chase payment the job is likley to be non profitable anyway and in past experience, most likley a loss,
I can sit at home on my arse in a comfy chair in front of the TV and make no money, I don't have to go out and work hard to get nothing.

Sam

Glort,

Of course that's a great way to protect yourself as well, and you are correct about the large companies, they just don't have any perspective about a small company and they are used to paying in 60 or 90 days.

Also large companies even when their intentions are the best can't move instantly to cut a check like an individual or small business can.

Sam

ziggy53

They seem to be having a "fund raising" event in September. Perhaps this is the event which will also fund your fee.

Without seeing your contact none of us are in a position to give you legal guidance. I suspect that total payment was expected "upon completion" by what you have told us so far.

Using the "reasonable man" legal standard, it might be reasonable to wait from 3 months to a year for payment from a not-for-profit organization, unless your contract states differently or unless there are other circumstances. I suggest waiting until after their fund raiser on September 20th for your best chances of recovery.

In the mean time, I am hopeful that your photographs are helpful in some way to our veterans. Thank you for caring.

Blaker

I don't know how big this organization is, but sometimes you have better luck finding out who the firm's accountant is and sending the bill directly to his office along with a copy of the original invoice and contract.
You can also think about offering a 10% reduction in what they owe if they pay in full immediately, or notifiy them that you will be charging _% interest for each month's bill.
If that doesn't work, have your attorney send them a cease and desist letter asking them to stop using any materials which feature your photographs until they have have paid you in full.


Good luck!

Sam

ziggy53 wrote: »

They seem to be having a "fund raising" event in September. Perhaps this is the event which will also fund your fee.

Without seeing your contact none of us are in a position to give you legal guidance. I suspect that total payment was expected "upon completion" by what you have told us so far.

Using the "reasonable man" legal standard, it might be reasonable to wait from 3 months to a year for payment from a not-for-profit organization, unless your contract states differently or unless there are other circumstances. I suggest waiting until after their fund raiser on September 20th for your best chances of recovery.

In the mean time, I am hopeful that your photographs are helpful in some way to our veterans. Thank you for caring.

Ziggy53,

Stop smoking whatever it is your smoking!!! "Reasonable man / legal standard" You think waiting 3 months to a year after billing and payment is due is reasonable?????

Ziggy, PLEASE........................ If you wait for 3 months to a year after after an invoice is due without making any attempts to collect, I can guarantee you ain't gona get no money.

Now as an aside I probably would have shot this for free because it's veteran related, but that has nothing to do with enforcing an existing written contract.

And yes my first, second and probably third choices would be to talk to them and sport it out, but if the other party has no intentions of sorting it out don't delay, take them to small claims court.

Sam