Speedlights or monobloc flash units for on-location shoots?

anonymouscuban

I know some of you use monoblocs on-location. Others use speedlights. I'm at an impasse right now with which route to go and I'd love to hear from you guys.

What do you use and why?

I have two speedlights but I also have several Alienbee monoblocs. I love the portability of my speedlights and also the ease of using TTL technology. I find Nikon's TTL amazingly accurate for a lot of applications. However, I love the power of my Alienbees and also like that I don't have to buy two separate set of modifiers if I were to use my Alienbees outside. Further, the cost of monoblocs is way freaking cheaper than speedlights, although wit the two speedlights I have, I can do a lot.

Maybe its not a question of one over the other but more of which one will do the best job for the specific project. Hmm... I think I just answered my own question. :scratch

Dreadnote

For me I think the answer is both. That being said, the Einstein units allow TTL when coupled with PW Control TL units. You can even control power output from camera position with an ac3 unit. That and the mini vagabond battery make for a fairly small package. In fact you can power multiple E640's off one battery pack for a decent amount of time if you turn off the modeling lights. All that and they cost less than a sb900 or sb910. You can put them on the same light stands you are using for your speed lights (depending on the mod of course), sand bagged of course.

Hope that helps.

zoomer

I HATE messing with equipment when I am doing portraits.
When I need a light I use speedlights. I typically have all the adjustments set before I leave the house. Takes about 1 minute to set the whole thing up.

RyanS

It sounds like you have everything you need. A couple speedlights for those quick/portable locations and shoots with simple modifiers. Then some monoblocs with the big modifiers for the larger productions. I got a vagabond per light to give me pretty fast recycle times and making it fairly easy to shift lights on location. If any of you have vagabonds, I am sure you know this... but the standard clips it ships with are ridiculously stupid. The after-market superclamp clips are rock-solid. No fear of the vagabond popping off the stand with those things. I've hung them over bridges and other similarly crazy things.

All that said, if you've got the cash then why not build McNally's "Tree of Pain?"

http://www.joemcnally.com/blog/2008/05/19/david-of-the-desert/

Another vote for the E640s. Despite some variable production quality issues people have faced, they produce wonderful light across the power range. No need to WB after power adjustments.

jonh68

I recently bought two AB's, a 800 and 400 with the mini battery pack. Most of my stuff is location photography. I am a fan of the AB's for location shooting. I used to shoot speedlights and liked the portability, but I now like how I can overcome the sun better with the AB's. On a sunny day, I can use the sun as a second light. On cloudy days, the other AB becomes a second light. Using a softbox I can get a studio look outside. I now get the remark is that a backdrop or a real background.

I bought the Paul Buff radio triggers and have been able to extend my range of shooting where I can use a 300mm outside for portrait work and not worry about line of sight. From an economic and power viewpoint, it would cost much more to get that kind of power and remote triggering with speedlights. I don't like the bulk, but once you get used to the setup it isn't much more cumbersome than speedlights on stands. I put my lights in a long cooler with wheels for on location stuff.

Bryce Wilson

What I have chosen and the reasons for doing so might not fit your situation but here it is none the less.

Being as I already had three Novatron 500's and two Photogenic Studio Max (These really suck, don't anyone ever buy them) mono lights for doing studio work and indoor location work, not to mention a couple of sets of Speedatron power pack units, I just couldn't wrap my head around buying the AB's for outdoor work.

I now have four SB 800's that I use for outdoor work. I paid 200.00 on the low end and 240.00 on the high end each from folks that just had to upgrade to the SB 900 and now SB 910. They are very portable, easy to set up and with the various modifiers I now have for them, haven't failed me yet.

I too get the "Is that a studio background or was it taken outside?" question from folks. The one I am attaching below caused an argument as the person swore I was lying and that it was done in studio.

Done with two speedlights:

Hackbone

See if you can google or facebook Warne Noyce. Most of his work is one speedlight he is freaky awesome.

anonymouscuban

Great stuff guys. All the outdoor stuff I've done so far has been with speedlights. I door have portable power for my ABs so can't shoot outdoors unless I have some place to plug. I don't want to invest in power supplies at this point if I don't need to and like I said in my OP, I don't think I have to. It's not like I'm doing huge outdoor productions where I would need big lights. If I ever to get to work on a project like that, I guess that's when I will be the portable power. Until then, I will stick to my speedlights.

aktse

anonymouscuban wrote: »

Maybe its not a question of one over the other but more of which one will do the best job for the specific project.

Bingo. It's all about the light that you need to craft for you image.

ABs/Speedlights? For me, it boils down to if I need to shoot at a specific hour outside without the ability to find/use open shade and if I need to over power full sun.

If I don't need to do either, I go with the fast and portable. If I do, then it's time for the ABs/battery pack.

Note: you can rent a vega mini for cheap for the times you need them.

kdog

^^ What April said. I recently used two Canon 580EXII flashes with silver umbrellas at a beach shoot and couldn't completely overpower the sun with those. So you'd probably want four speedlights which is getting ridiculous. (See "tree of lights", referenced above.) On the other hand, carrying a couple of monolights on stands with softboxes out to the beach is kind of ridiculous too. Choose your poison I guess.

I actually own 5 speedlights now. 2 Canons, 2 cheapo Vivitar 285's, and a super-cheap Yonguo 580 clone. I did a quickie output test of them recently and the Canon flashes were probably 2x the output, but at over 5x the price. So the cheapos are more cost effective, especially those Yonguos.

Oh and I rarely use TTL with off-camera flash. I get way more consistent shots with manual.

Dreadnote

Just a quick aside about multiple speedlights which I'm sure everyone already knows...

Adding a 2nd light adds 1 stop of power. To get another stop you need a total of 4 speedlights. To get a third stop you need 8 speedlights and so on. If a top end speedlight is approximately 64 w/s then an E640 (or ab1600) is approximately equal to 10 speedlights. That is $5000 in speedlights or $240 to add a battery to your ab setup. Since you already have mods for your ab's it sounds like that is a cheaper more versatile way to go even though I'm sure you won't be buying the McNally pack of speedlights.

jonh68

kdog wrote: »

^^ What April said. I recently used two Canon 580EXII flashes with silver umbrellas at a beach shoot and couldn't completely overpower the sun with those. So you'd probably want four speedlights which is getting ridiculous. (See "tree of lights", referenced above.) On the other hand, carrying a couple of monolights on stands with softboxes out to the beach is kind of ridiculous too. Choose your poison I guess.

I actually own 5 speedlights now. 2 Canons, 2 cheapo Vivitar 285's, and a super-cheap Yonguo 580 clone. I did a quickie output test of them recently and the Canon flashes were probably 2x the output, but at over 5x the price. So the cheapos are more cost effective, especially those Yonguos.

Oh and I rarely use TTL with off-camera flash. I get way more consistent shots with manual.

I had a photoshoot at the beach on a windy day which meant using a softbox or umbrella was near impossible. A beauty dish on the AB800 did a good enough job for me. You pick what will get the job done.

Hackbone

Don't forget if you zoom the head out on the flash the power seems to increase if you need some extra.

anonymouscuban

Dreadnote wrote: »

Just a quick aside about multiple speedlights which I'm sure everyone already knows...

Adding a 2nd light adds 1 stop of power. To get another stop you need a total of 4 speedlights. To get a third stop you need 8 speedlights and so on. If a top end speedlight is approximately 64 w/s then an E640 (or ab1600) is approximately equal to 10 speedlights. That is $5000 in speedlights or $240 to add a battery to your ab setup. Since you already have mods for your ab's it sounds like that is a cheaper more versatile way to go even though I'm sure you won't be buying the McNally pack of speedlights.

You're absolutely correct. Speedlights are not the most efficient way of lighting a scene. Speaking in both terms of number of heads and cost per w/s. But as I realized after starting this post, I don't think either system is mutually exclusive. Let's face it, Joe McNally probably gets most of his speedlights for free so putting together a tree of about 20 speedlights to overpower the sun is just showing off if you ask me. No one in the right mind would light a scene that way. At least IMO.

I've been doing a pretty good job of lighting outdoor scenes with my two speedlights. I guess if I had to do some work in full sun with no open shade, I would have a hard time. But even then, I have other tools at my disposal. We can't forget about using "subtractive" lighting techniques. It's much easier to diffuse direct sunlight than to try to overpower it.

Dreadnote

anonymouscuban wrote: »

You're absolutely correct. Speedlights are not the most efficient way of lighting a scene. Speaking in both terms of number of heads and cost per w/s. But as I realized after starting this post, I don't think either system is mutually exclusive. Let's face it, Joe McNally probably gets most of his speedlights for free so putting together a tree of about 20 speedlights to overpower the sun is just showing off if you ask me. No one in the right mind would light a scene that way. At least IMO.

I've been doing a pretty good job of lighting outdoor scenes with my two speedlights. I guess if I had to do some work in full sun with no open shade, I would have a hard time. But even then, I have other tools at my disposal. We can't forget about using "subtractive" lighting techniques. It's much easier to diffuse direct sunlight than to try to overpower it.

You have a point...and I can't argue with results. I thought your recent beach session that you posted was really great as well as the ones you did of your family members.

Icebear

Bryce Wilson wrote: »

I too get the "Is that a studio background or was it taken outside?" question from folks. The one I am attaching below caused an argument as the person swore I was lying and that it was done in studio.

Bryce, if your studio backgrounds weren't so special, maybe people might believe you when you tell them it's a natural BG.

Bryce Wilson

Icebear wrote: »

Bryce, if your studio backgrounds weren't so special, maybe people might believe you when you tell them it's a natural BG.

Wow, now there's a stranger! I assume your venture is keeping you busy and you're doing well. Haven't seen a post from you in the people forum in quite some time.

If I end up making another of those backgrounds you like before summer is over, it won't be much harder to make two, I'll keep ya in mind!

jarboedoggart

I only use my Canon Speedlites. cant resist the versatility and portability, I do weddings, cars, portraits on and off location with minimal equipment and a few real inexpensive radio triggers. Other than the tripods/diffusers it all fits in my camera bag.