Having a heart makes you stupid?
whoknows
Registered Users Posts: 8 Beginner grinner
Hi folks, hoping to get some feed back in regards to my rantings.
I am just starting out as an event photographer. As luck would have it one of our historical sites in the area was in search for a photographer, I replied to the advertisement telling them a bit about myself and added a few pictures. To my surprise they asked me to photograph the event. Took well over 500 shot and after doing what needed to be done sent the historical site the photos by email. Long story short, they were very please and asked me to photograph all of their events!! Huge ordeal for some one just starting out. Oh I must add, I was so excited about this offer that I agreed to do all the events free of charge. This is fine with me, as it's a way to continue to gain more experience and hopefully exposure.
Well, it seems now that the word has gotten out that I do these events for this site for free and am being asked to photograph other events (which is great)...but they all assume that their event will be free as well.
I also do portrait photography. No set prises as everyone has different situations. No reason why the poorer folks can't have a photo shoot done too..right? Well, now I have folks asking me to book dates for them to do a shoot, then once again assume that I will do it for free or dirt cheap. They also feel that because I have a heart that they can call me up an hour before the shoot and cancel. Which is what happened today..which is the reason for writing this..which is the reason why I'm pretty peeved!!
I have 5 events coming up next month. Not one of them are paying!!! One event is being ran by an old friend. Another a charity run. The others at different historical sites.
Will I have to become a person I don't want to be to make these people realize that I am not just a house wife with a camera that has nothing better to do. This is a business!!
What do I need to do? More so how do I go about letting folks know that I take my works quite seriously and that they should too.
Here is the link to my site. Is there something about it that says "fool for hire"...or "fool for free"
http://tigerlilliesphotographybylinda.weebly.com/index.html
Thank you for your time.
Linda.
I am just starting out as an event photographer. As luck would have it one of our historical sites in the area was in search for a photographer, I replied to the advertisement telling them a bit about myself and added a few pictures. To my surprise they asked me to photograph the event. Took well over 500 shot and after doing what needed to be done sent the historical site the photos by email. Long story short, they were very please and asked me to photograph all of their events!! Huge ordeal for some one just starting out. Oh I must add, I was so excited about this offer that I agreed to do all the events free of charge. This is fine with me, as it's a way to continue to gain more experience and hopefully exposure.
Well, it seems now that the word has gotten out that I do these events for this site for free and am being asked to photograph other events (which is great)...but they all assume that their event will be free as well.
I also do portrait photography. No set prises as everyone has different situations. No reason why the poorer folks can't have a photo shoot done too..right? Well, now I have folks asking me to book dates for them to do a shoot, then once again assume that I will do it for free or dirt cheap. They also feel that because I have a heart that they can call me up an hour before the shoot and cancel. Which is what happened today..which is the reason for writing this..which is the reason why I'm pretty peeved!!
I have 5 events coming up next month. Not one of them are paying!!! One event is being ran by an old friend. Another a charity run. The others at different historical sites.
Will I have to become a person I don't want to be to make these people realize that I am not just a house wife with a camera that has nothing better to do. This is a business!!
What do I need to do? More so how do I go about letting folks know that I take my works quite seriously and that they should too.
Here is the link to my site. Is there something about it that says "fool for hire"...or "fool for free"
http://tigerlilliesphotographybylinda.weebly.com/index.html
Thank you for your time.
Linda.
0
Comments
nothing wrong with having a heart...but you need to have set prices ... ... you can give a break just some as health clinics do...based on monthly income...pretty simple to have a sliding scale if you want to or even barter out the discounted price.....always ask for a retainer to hold a date and time even for the most menial of shoots...and in your contract state that retainers are non refundable...if you know the going rate in your area then base your prices on that or really close....doing work way under the local standard can cause some really bad feelings also....if you aren't sure of the local standard, do some internet shopping of your local talent.....
as too any already booked free events...if you go asking to be paid now...that wil cause real bad feelings and bad rep possibly...do the ones booked and deliver and put a contract in for any future events with amount specified....you will know if you even want to work with these people after just doing the event.....but do not book any more with out talking money..........I have had event people call me say that so and so said I worked for them for free and I just laughed, when asked what was funny, I had to explain that they were told i was free due to our agreement that stated they nor I could disclose our pay agreement........sometimes I will do 1 event for free as far as the shooting goes and I will process and give the client access to a gallery of images in small size so if they screen grab they are useless and let them pay per image, giving breaks at like 25, 50 and 100+ or all for a decent set amount....and make your per image princes high enough to actuall make a little profit...that camera was not free nor the lenses nor their UPKEEP...but no matter how new you are do under under cut the local standard by very much at all....if we respect the others in our indsutry in this way it is just so much better for all of us.
Good Luck.
Your website looks very professional, I don't see anything that would indicate "fool for free." I like your processing (muted colors) for the re-enactment images. One error on the home page, though: "ALL PHOTOS ARE COPY WRITE OF, TIGER LILLIES, EVENT PHOTOGRAPHY BY LINDA." It should be "copyright".
Yeah, you'll have to do the ones already booked for free, but stop there. You might ask if there's anything left in the budget for your gasoline expense (travel expense.)
www.ArtMorganFineArt.com
Are you actually getting any business from your webpage? I didn't find a single place on your webpage where it says who you are or where you are located, people stumbling across your webpage are not likely to continue on to hire you if they don't know where you are. As a potential customer, unless I had heard about you from word of mouth, just finding your web page wouldn't really induce me to contact you.
Plus, nowhere on your webpage does it actually state that you expect to be paid, it says that you can be booked, but all it says other than that is that this is your passion and your enjoyment. If you are more than a just a housewife with a hobby, you need to start making that clear. Plus, the misspellings don't look very professional. So no, nothing on your web page actually says "this is a business, I expect to be paid".
On your web page, one last thing, browser side scaling is generally a bad thing. Why force people to spend the bandwidth downloading a full size image, only to have it scaled to a large thumbnail in the browser? You should serve up the main page images at the size you tell the browser to show them at, and make them clickable links to larger images if you want people to be able to see the larger sizes.
If most of your work is coming from word of mouth, and 'everyone' knows you are willing to shoot for free, it's not surprising they expect you to continue shooting for free.
Why would it make you be a person you "don't want to be" to actually assert that you deserve to be paid for your time and your skill? Do you resent your mechanic for charging for their services? Your doctor for charging you? Your camera store for charging you?
Demand for you will probably drop off a lot when people learn you won't shoot for free, but it's not like that will cost you any money. You can still go out everyday and shoot for experience, and pick a small set of charities and non-profits that you donate your time to, but make it clear to those organizers that you have specifically chosen to do the work for them as charity, and that while it's great that they tell other people what great work you do, that they shouldn't continue to lead people to believe you'll work for everybody on those same terms.
To me it sounds exactly like you are one of those people with nothing better to do than take pics because you like it.
You have made the "I'll work for free" message pretty apparent, before you took on these events fr free you are now complaining about, What did you discuss about payment and indicate you were looking for paid work?
Sorry but I'm not feeling a lot of Sympathy for your complaint. To me you have made a pretty clear announcement of "Fool for Free". You say you want to run a business but you indicate you have done nothing in a business like fashion.
There are so many people wanting to play photographer ( and Play is the right word) that think it's all about taking pics but have no idea of a business or that being a photographer is 90% business, 10% taking pics.
When People tell me they would love to be a photographer because they love taking pictures I tell them that is the last reason they should become a photographer and if you love taking pics, do it for the love not the money because once you do it for work, it's work.
As I am constantly saying, if you want to make it a business and are in fact remotely serious, forget about photography things and learning how to take pretty pictures, bone up on business, marketing and sales skills FIRST of all. You do those FIRST so you don't get into situations like this or have to post up another inane " How much should I charge" question. I have to say those always amaze me as a dead giveaway the photographer is a dillatante rather than having any sort of a clue about being in business. If you have to ask how much to charge, the answer is nothing because you don't know enough to be taking money from paying customers.
It's that simple.
As far as the predicament you have yourself in now, There is the easy way and the difficult way to get around it.
The first and easiest way is to move away about 100 miles to another large community and don't make the same mistakes again.
Reead up and educate yourself in business principals so you know how to run a business, handle clients, negotiate fees and of course what to charge.
And preferably trade under a different name so your old Freebie customers don't get wind of where you are and contaminate the new area.
Second method is going to be a lot harder and require a lot more skill and effort. It still requires you read up on business, marketing and sales because you are going to need all the knowledge you can muster.
I think I'm better than the average shooter by a long shot on this stuff but it's not a situation I'd like to be trying to trade out of.
As for the events you have, You could either apologize that you can no longer cover them for free as circumstances have changed and you are no longer available.
You have made your contribution, I'd point out that you hoped what you have done is helped them and you will look forward to helping them again in the future when your Paid work commitments allow. If you are professional and business like you should be able to put your point across and keep face.
If anyone gets upset, tough. They are not going to be your clients anyway and you wouldn't want them if they were. The people that will understand and whom may come to you in the future with paying work won't whinge.
And if any moralistic do gooders want to chime in with comments about agreements etc, save it. I'm not interested. We are talking about business not tiddly winks now.
The other thing you could do is read up fast and try to monetize the events you are doing. I have no idea what the heck goes on at a historical society event but figure out how you can take pics there that people will want to buy. Notice I didn't say sell. Offering something for sale is a whole load different to offering something people will pull their wallet out of their pocket for. IF they dress up in period costume, set up something to shoot that, print it onsite ( No, it's not nearly as hard or expensive to set up as the people that have never done it make out!) and sell it there and then. Forget online, this will be an impulse purchase that will be dead in the water once they walk 20 Ft from you.
Get the people you are shooting for to put an ad in their flyers or programs, on their website or emails that you will be doing pics there ( write the blurb for them so all they have to do is insert it) and have them for sale. Talk it up as a great memory, something never offered before etc.
This is why you need to have a grasp of advertising. And DO educate yourself in basic ad writing before you do it. I see so many things obviously written someone in the business that had no idea and is probably more detrimental than helpful the way they have done it. Make sure you know how to get your point across and inspire action on the part of the event attendees.
The charity run also has -some- saleability factor. Set up on the finish line to shoot them as they cross it, have the timer in the background if they have one and set up a border action in Photoshop with the event name, date etc on it. Again, get the charity you are supporting with pics to support you. Be very clear that you have to make a living in order to be able to do these events for them and if you can't get anything from it you will have to seek other paying work so you can live.
Don't tiptoe around with these people. Most of the time they are just professional beggars trying to get money and services from small business people whom have as little as the people they say they are supporting.
IF you can come up with some workable ideas for these events you may be able to turn them round to your advantage on a Business level. I'd look at green screen setups to allow you to put different backgrounds on pics to suit the event if you have no suitable background or location to set up available.
Again, Not expensive or hard to do. In any case it's an investment to make money and in your business.
I'd only be giving the organizations some over all pics of the day and separating that from what you are selling.
As for your comment about the poorer folks having portraits done, you have to decide now f you are a business or a charity. Start giving some people discounted rates and you'll be right back where you are now before you know it with everyone expecting cut price rates. I started out catering to the bottom end of the market, Never again. These are the people that want everything, don't want to pay for it and are 10 times more effort and trouble than the people that pay full tilt without question.
I have struggle for the last few years through being crook and trying o live off one wage essentially and I didn't expect to get things cheaper because we were essentially poor. If I couldn't afford something, we did without. I didn't think it should be any other way. If you want to do charity work fine, but don't try and mix charity into your business with discounting your product.
Again, this is something you nee to brush up on business skills to learn how to handle.
I would also suggest that you forget about the events you are doing if you are at all serious and go to where there is some money to be made. Corporate gold days, charity balls, corporate dinners and presentations are where you want to be. They pay and you can make a buck. Really, the other stuff is tiddly winks that you'll loose more often than you'll win with.
Corporates will pay and they will pay money up front if you ask for it. It's far better than going to some other event and hoping to hell there are some people that will want to buy a pic.
Good luck with it. If you are serious you have a lot of work ahead in learning about running a business but at least you have learned a very valuable lesson straight off that will serve you well in the long run.
Some one had asked because of not having any info about where I am, if my services are word of mouth. Yes they are. Which can be a good thing.
Well, I received an email from a client that has booked for an event next month. Seems there will be quite a few more event coming up and they wish for me to photograph them. I will most certainly be telling them that this one next month is free, but after that...this will be my fee. Personally I just feel very uncomfortable in saying a price...but will learn to like it quickly.
All of you are absolutely right in all that you've said to me. Thanks for the "smart me up" cuff in the back of the head.
Enjoy the rest of your weekend.
Linda.
that could very well stop the re-enactors themselves from asking for print prices...
not sure if your host would allow paypal buttons but it might be worth while to see
if you add to your site or just a per print price list and your email for inquiries...
Good Luck.
It's replys like that which make trying to help people on Forums worthwhile.
There are so many that have endless excuses and rebuttals for the advise they ask for and make out they know it all already.
Then there are people like you whom ARE serious and willing to learn with an open mind. That to me qualifies you on it's own to be successful. I always laugh how the people that are always coming back with questions that then then argue the advise they are given never seem to get anywhere but always have a justification for the non effective strategies and positions they keep taking.
I gaurantee you, the biggest asset t you as a photographer will be to learn the business principals I mention. They will get you so much work simply because 90% of the competition don't know how to approach clients effectively, sell themselves, promote their business or know where it's going.
Most will argue Photography skills and having this camera or that lens or photofidling the crap out of every pic they take is essential. When you know about business, just the very basics, you know how laughable those notions are.
There is a reason I can walk into places without an appointment and take thousands of dollars worth of work off the competitor and it's not because I'm the greatest Photographer even in my area let alone anywhere else.
You seem like a mature and very intelligent woman and your willingness to learn will be your greatest asset.
It just occurred to me to have a look at your site. I see people do dress up at the events you are covering and plenty of them.
Your work is excellent! You have the eye to capture the right scenes and moments which is something I have always struggled with. I sure as hell wouldn't like to be competing with you for those jobs. Little wonder the people wanted you to do all their events!
You seriously don't need to improve your photography at this stage, it's plenty saleable as is.
What you do need to learn is how to monetize it. Despite my earlier comment, I think these events may hold good earning potential now I have seen your pics. I'm damn sure I could put my onsite setup to use there and have you shooting and we would both make good money.
You may have to change your shooting style a little but then again if you can pull 500 shots like these out of an event, maybe not. What you do have to do is get people in front on the images and their money out of their pockets.
I would definitely go for an onsite viewing setup with these events and for that you will need help from your husband or a friend to run the store while you do the shooting. t's nearly impossible to get the most out of any event wrk on your own so help is something you should look at straight off.
Anyway, Congrats on the beautiful quality of your work and your open minded attitude.
I have little doubt you have more than enough of the right attitude and skills to do very well in this game and with learning a bit about business, you will be in a totally different place to what you are now in 12 months time.
If a paying client calls needs photography this weekend you don't want any wording on your website to dissuade them from calling. Also different jobs could easily require a higher retainer.
Sam
At some point you might want to gather them into a book form with text explaining the re-enactments- I can see this as something the historical society might be able to sell in their shop- just something to think about for the future.
I have done a lot of onsite printing at events and I'd be glad to help you with any suggestions.
It can be done very cheaply, effectively and reliably and leaves online selling for dead.
I had a lot of help from a guy when I got into events that I will always be eternally grateful for. It can be real easy when you have the right helping hand. I'm going OS with him in a couple of months to shoot an event for him.
Pitty you are not in Oz. I have got out of events this year and still have about 26 View stations up the back along with all the switches and routers, servers, cables and stuff to run them. I didn't pay much for it but it sure made me some money when I couldn't do anything else.
When I started out with this stuff I knew beans as well. I worked all the computer stuff out and really it's not that hard. It's very plug and play these days and what you need to know there is endless resources on the net to learn from . The trick to events is the marketing and presentation.
There are also other ways of approaching events to make money. You need to be like the army, have a range of guns and pick the right gun for the job. No one gun is right for everything just as no one approach is the most effective for every event you will want to tackle.
Anyway, if there is anything specific you want to know, just ask.
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I'll take that as a complement. Thank you.
You have been an amazing help, thank you. I believe I have made the first big no no. I listened to some one about changing the site a bit, just so that it would fit everyone not just historians. Well, it seems now I have really buggered things up and the site is gone. Will have to work on getting it back.
Good news though, a chair person from a neighbour town would like to have a meeting and speak about photographing events for them. When I'm able to get off this cloud I'll be sure to run over and speak with her. I will have to speak with the organizer for the home/museum to see if I can do printing of photos while on the property. If he says it's a go, then I will most certainly find some one to help. The visitors and re-enactors would love to see their pictures while still on site.
Still doing my home work, learning loads. Getting ready to make flyers for the events. Phone number put in 411. It's one step at a time, but with all the help and wonderful positive feed back from everyone here I'm a lot further then I was a few days ago.
Don't get too caught up on websites. They aren't the be all and end all they are made out to be.
Think about why you really need one, the purpose it will serve and the potential draw backs.
If you take my advise and Don't put the pics online, you don't need a site for selling. I believe it is an absolute detriment if you are doing onsite. If the organisers are now coming to you, you don't need one any different to what you have from that POV.
What the REAL aim of any advertising you do, which is what a website is the same as an ad in the paper of whatever, is simply to make the phone ring. You NEED to talk to them to sell them. By the time you go see these organizers you should have given them all the info you need to make the buying decision and the meeting should be a formality basically.
I didn't have a website for my event business. I contacted all the people directly by phone or with a carefully written email that again gave them the info they needed and sold me by showing how I could solve their problems and alleviate their concerns.
I don't have a site for my new business and won't be having one. I have had a few people ring me now for info and ask for a site. I talk to them, give them the info they want, establish a rapport with them and then make a time to get face to face with them which is when I can stitch up the deal.
I had a lady from a chain of places ring me last week wanting to know If I had a site or could email her some info. I said I had an information pack but it was not on electronic form ( Big lie!) I told her how I worked and she asked questions. By the end of the conversation she knew all there was to know and I said I'd send her a printed info pack as I was flat out elsewhere this week but I would ring to make an appointment to come see her next week.
I followed her up today to see she got the material I sent and we chatted some more. The upshot is I now have a tentative set of bookings for 8 centres. This is potentially worth hundreds of thousands to me. It is that massive. Now I may have landed this deal if I had just flicked her to a site but I sure would not have been able to build the rapport and share the anecdotes I have with her which will make us far closer to old friends when ( and if) I do go see her than if we hadn't shared the conversation we have.
My long winded as usual point is don't put too much into your site. It's fine the way it is( was/ will be) and you are better off contacting your targets or having them talk to you than see a site.
Your market is not general public, it's Niche interest that you can easily see and follow yourself.
You may want to prepare some materials outlining your rates, how you go about onsite printing ( written from the POV of benefit to participants and organizers etc.
I have an info pack with sample pics, an intro letter explaining how things work, a FAQ Sheet, a sample package, price list, Copy of relative insurances, background checks etc, and a list of people to contact for referals from there centers I have worked at.
The package looks so impressive, everyone is surprised when they ask if they can have a copy of some of the info and I hand them the folder and tell them that is theirs to refer to. It makes for a great first impression. I print it all on glossy Photo paper, even the text so it has a heavy, quality feel to everything.
It's all on the computer in one file so I just print them off usually 5 at a time and keep a couple in the car as well as my diary I carry round.
That's what I rely on to do my selling for me.
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
Good one!! Thanks.