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Photography and Computers... Take 2
Rufus280
Registered Users Posts: 31 Big grins
When delving into digital photography, one should consider their computer needs just as much as their camera needs. Plan and investigate what you will need in computer equipment, just as you would your camera equipment.
A photographer can be someone shooting only with an iPhone and a 10yr old laptop and be totally happy with their setup. I understand this.
Depending on what level of photography you aspire to, this will dictate what level of computer system you need.
Let's say you are "Joe Newbie" who just had a baby and bought your first digital camera so he could get picts to grandma across the country. He uses the home family computer to deal with his images.
Then there is "Joe Middle" who could be an experienced amateur or semi-pro photographer. He could be using a laptop or desktop or both and be well prepared for anything.
Then there is "Joe Pro" who runs his own studio. He probably has at least one workstation and maybe a couple of iMacs used for post-production or point of sale, etc. Of course he also has a laptop that goes everywhere with him. He probably has at least one server.
(Please don't pick the above apart. It's just to make a point of DIFFERENT LEVELS.)
Of course each level will have different levels of camera gear, and each level has different levels of computer gear.
Once again I will use my personal experience with the Mom wanting to buy her first DSLR. Let's call her "Jane Newbie" ("Joe Newbie's wife).
She was very ready to drop $1000 on a camera, but was totally forgetting about a computer. Almost as an afterthought she said she would use her son's laptop. There was obviously no planning on her part about the computer end of her photography. While she understands fully that she is a full blown newbie, not knowing anything about photography, but has a dream to become one.
My point to her was NOT to go out and buy a $1000 camera thinking she would become instantly good, but to buy a $500 camera and a $500 computer.
(I know another guy with two point and shoots and no computer at all. He simply keeps buying additional cards as he fills them...never moving the picts to a computer or erasing the cards.
While he will uncomfortably say he's get a computer, he honestly has no plans to. )
Now bumping this up to Joe Middle, he's got $5000-$10000 worth of camera gear that he's collected over the years. He's not a full time photographer, but sells images, calendars, etc, to his church group, local sports team, etc. He has deadlines to meet to make people happy, but he won't get fired if he misses them. He's inquisitive in that he wants to experiment with different types of photography such as HDR, 3D, DV, DV-HD, etc. He may also author dvd's, BluRay, etc. He may also have several types of scanners, including high end film/slide scanners for his older film photography, or client needs.
He's going to need more than his son's laptop. He will need at least one desktop unit (mainly for the DV, DV-HD and dvd/BluRay authoring). He may also have many images that are either active or archived for himself or clients, which will required multiple backup HD's or HD arrays or optical disc library or tape drives, etc.
Then there is "Jane Pro". Again I will use someone I know of. She started out taking pictures of neighborhood kids in a spare bedroom of her house. She now runs a nationally known portrait studio. She has a 10,000 ft studio, with several workstations, several other post production machines, point of sale computers, and of course probably a few laptops, probably a few servers, etc. She does training so there is also lots of DV cameras which need to be edited and burned to disc for sale to clients, which probably has it's one workstation.
Now with all of this said, I'm not in anyway stating specifically that each of these levels SHOULD use the mentioned equipment. I'm merely trying to give random examples of what is going on at different levels. If you are the mom just starting out, but aspire to be that "Joe Middle" person, then keep that in mind as you grow and start planning how you will handle the 40,000 images a year, or scan the 3000 old slides that your sister wants to pay you do digitize, etc.
Again, please don't take these examples to heart. I'm just trying to make people think about where you want to go and think about what you're going to need to get there.
When you are ready to bump your photography up, simply keep the computer end of it in mind.
A photographer can be someone shooting only with an iPhone and a 10yr old laptop and be totally happy with their setup. I understand this.
Depending on what level of photography you aspire to, this will dictate what level of computer system you need.
Let's say you are "Joe Newbie" who just had a baby and bought your first digital camera so he could get picts to grandma across the country. He uses the home family computer to deal with his images.
Then there is "Joe Middle" who could be an experienced amateur or semi-pro photographer. He could be using a laptop or desktop or both and be well prepared for anything.
Then there is "Joe Pro" who runs his own studio. He probably has at least one workstation and maybe a couple of iMacs used for post-production or point of sale, etc. Of course he also has a laptop that goes everywhere with him. He probably has at least one server.
(Please don't pick the above apart. It's just to make a point of DIFFERENT LEVELS.)
Of course each level will have different levels of camera gear, and each level has different levels of computer gear.
Once again I will use my personal experience with the Mom wanting to buy her first DSLR. Let's call her "Jane Newbie" ("Joe Newbie's wife).
She was very ready to drop $1000 on a camera, but was totally forgetting about a computer. Almost as an afterthought she said she would use her son's laptop. There was obviously no planning on her part about the computer end of her photography. While she understands fully that she is a full blown newbie, not knowing anything about photography, but has a dream to become one.
My point to her was NOT to go out and buy a $1000 camera thinking she would become instantly good, but to buy a $500 camera and a $500 computer.
(I know another guy with two point and shoots and no computer at all. He simply keeps buying additional cards as he fills them...never moving the picts to a computer or erasing the cards.
While he will uncomfortably say he's get a computer, he honestly has no plans to. )
Now bumping this up to Joe Middle, he's got $5000-$10000 worth of camera gear that he's collected over the years. He's not a full time photographer, but sells images, calendars, etc, to his church group, local sports team, etc. He has deadlines to meet to make people happy, but he won't get fired if he misses them. He's inquisitive in that he wants to experiment with different types of photography such as HDR, 3D, DV, DV-HD, etc. He may also author dvd's, BluRay, etc. He may also have several types of scanners, including high end film/slide scanners for his older film photography, or client needs.
He's going to need more than his son's laptop. He will need at least one desktop unit (mainly for the DV, DV-HD and dvd/BluRay authoring). He may also have many images that are either active or archived for himself or clients, which will required multiple backup HD's or HD arrays or optical disc library or tape drives, etc.
Then there is "Jane Pro". Again I will use someone I know of. She started out taking pictures of neighborhood kids in a spare bedroom of her house. She now runs a nationally known portrait studio. She has a 10,000 ft studio, with several workstations, several other post production machines, point of sale computers, and of course probably a few laptops, probably a few servers, etc. She does training so there is also lots of DV cameras which need to be edited and burned to disc for sale to clients, which probably has it's one workstation.
Now with all of this said, I'm not in anyway stating specifically that each of these levels SHOULD use the mentioned equipment. I'm merely trying to give random examples of what is going on at different levels. If you are the mom just starting out, but aspire to be that "Joe Middle" person, then keep that in mind as you grow and start planning how you will handle the 40,000 images a year, or scan the 3000 old slides that your sister wants to pay you do digitize, etc.
Again, please don't take these examples to heart. I'm just trying to make people think about where you want to go and think about what you're going to need to get there.
When you are ready to bump your photography up, simply keep the computer end of it in mind.
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I think that your point might be better made using software, rather than hardware: Joe Newbie might be really delighted with iPhoto or Windows Photo. Joe Middle might be cool with Photoshop Elements, or perhaps Lightroom. Joe Pro will be using Lightroom, Photoshop, Photomatix and other tools. They might have different image processing needs, but frankly, nearly any machine selling at Best Buy will run this stuff.
If you are doing professional layout, professional video composting and editting, then the power really comes into play, not only for the CPU, but the I/O and storage. If you are doing 444 video editing/compression, you need the highest CPU, Thunderbolt/Firewire 800, and you would be really excited if your office supplied Fibrechannel connected storage. Admittedly, this requires a high spec machine, mostly because of all the controllers needed and expandability mean the CPU is probably the cheapest part in the system.
In the end, I don't think any of us 'plan' to get a more expensive, powerful machine. I think we grow there, just like we do with camera gear. Joe Newbie would never understand why having a quad-core i7, thunderbolt attached NAS, and 16 GB of memory make sense, and he would never consider buying a machine like that. But Joe Pro understands why he needs to spend the money on it.
You bring up a great point on software, one that I would be interested in.
I would be interested in hearing what users do and how they use their computers. What are people using for storage at different levels. Also if anyone is doing anything off the beaten path of simply taking picts, such as film/slide scanning, custom printing, etc?
Basically I'm curious to hear in general what people are doing and a bit about their computer setup. I know I’d find it interesting and I usually learn something from others and I can only assume others would learn something to.
I'll start as an example...
Generally, I've been a photographer for decades, selling images here and there over the years. I'm not a full time pro. I consider myself a "semi-pro" in the sense I'm selling images, but I only depend on my "photo income" to support my photo work and nothing else. I just started on SmugMug last year so I'm definitely a SmugMug newbie.
For the prior 3 years I was selling my photos via a "year end" slideshow dvd to a single local high school sports team as a fund raiser, which was very successful.
Starting last year, I discontinued the dvd and started shooting all 10 local HS teams and marketed to all of them, thus increasing my customer base dramatically. This of course increased the overall images a great deal, having me struggling for a good backup method.
I haven't ruled out doing some kind of year-end dvd, marketed to all teams in the future, but am not rushing into that. Would like to consider offering this in HD-BluRay, but need to find the right software. I do have a BluRay burner, which so far works great for backup, giving the ability of dumping 30-40GB photo libraries on a single disc.
I also stumbled into a calendar market almost by accident. This issue has me holding back on software since I get the calendars from Apple and Aperture doesn't offer calendars.
On a personal note, I have approximately 4000ea 35mm slides from the "old days" that I'm trying to scan using a Nikon LS5000. This project started out well, but got derailed with hurricane Katrina and I'm now trying to get it started again. Now that I've upgraded to a MacPro over an old G4, I found that the old Nikon scanner software will not run on the MacPro. I have found replacement software for it, but it's still pending a Lion upgrade, which hopefully should be ready soon. I not only want to digitalize these for archival purposes, but burn them to slideshow dvds for easy viewing, as well as offer some on my SmugMug site.
Going forward I'm trying to come up with some type of storage such as an array, Drobo, NAS, etc. I haven't pinpointed where I want to go with this yet, but would like to pull the trigger on something by next year.
Phil
"You don't take a photograph, you make it." ~Ansel Adams
Phil
One other thing relevant to all of this: realistically, how long do most people keep a computer, particularly a laptop? I've never squeezed more than 5.5 years out of one (and that was before I was shooting digital pictures). Because of that, I'm not sure the added $ invested have as much return on them for somebody like me. If I was running a big studio, then of course, that becomes an expected overhead, but I'm not. I'd rather invest more money into the actual imaging tools (eg camera, lenses, lights) and deal with "adequate" rather than "amazing" post-production tools.
One affordable piece of equipment that I think everybody should have is an external calibration device - that's the one thing I wish I'd known about sooner in my photographic journey as I wasted a few months frustratedly trying to make prints that always came out with weird colours. An inexpensive Huey fixed that pretty much 100%. It doesn't necessarily do the best job on tweaking a low-end monitor's contrast, but it sure helps with accurate colours.
I have problems affording my BMP after arriving at them.
I couldn't have said it better myself! I know this is easier said than done, especially in today's economy, but basically, don't buy the computer you can afford...buy the computer you need.
You wouldn't buy a flat-blade screwdriver because it's cheaper when you really need a phillips, etc.
This may mean passing on that lens you "want" to get the computer you "need".
You bring up the very reason I upgraded. My 2010 dvd contained 2800 images, 20+ slideshows, etc.
It took about 20 HOURS to encode on the G4. I would start it at 10pm and it would be just finishing when I got home from work the next day. This was reduced to 6hrs on my MacBook Pro, and then 3.5hrs on my father-in-law's MacPro2.6. When I saw this and realized the time being wasted, I ordered my MacPro2.8 for the 2011 disc. Because I upgraded I was able to do a 2 disc set for 2011 containing over 7000 images/40+ slideshows, almost 3x the content, something I would have never considered or been able to do before due to time restraints.
This makes little to no sense. Buy what you need, not what you can afford? How do you propose someone do that if they cannot afford a higher priced computer than they need? Also if the lens gets the job in the can, a better-computer ain't gonna help you.
No. What they ought to do is shop around, talk to folks with experience and buy the best computer for their job and job prospects that they CAN afford. Buying things you cannot afford is not smart any time.
I agree with you on the color calibration. It's just keeps getting easier and cheaper to fix those issues with today's monitor and calibration options~
The Computer thing comes down to sitting and waiting like you said, or like RUFUS said waiting over night and into the next afternoon for a render. It all really depends on how quickly you need to turn things around.
I'd really like to be on CS6, but haven't gotten there yet. I'd also like to be up at 64GB of RAM and haven't gotten there either. Some of us have to be more patient than others simply because of budgetary concerns. Me, I'm a cash guy. And have been for more than a decade. And I ain't changing that M.O.
As far as Newbies are concerned. I say most computers folks have at home will allow them in the door to post work and take them plenty of places to where they can make an informed decision about upgrading.
I'm assuming you are a portrait photographer, an area I have no experience at, so I'm only guessing at things. I would assume that speed/power wouldn't be a big issue for you, but I would assume a nice big display and a solid backup routine would be beneficial.
In regards to the life span of a computer, I guess that would depend on how fast your needs grow. Generally I remember reading several years ago that life span for a computer was 5yrs, but then not too long ago (1yr?) I read it was down to 3yrs. I would of course use this as a rule of thumb since it really depends on each individual users needs at any given time. (ie: If you see sudden growth in clients, you may need to upgrade sooner, etc.)
In my case, since moving from dvds to selling prints on SmugMug, my computer requirements have actually gone down if you don't count my personal stuff (slide scanning, etc). The encoding time for each version of the disc was very time consuming on an old computer. Then when I finally had a "golden master" I had to burn 40 copies to sell, etc.
I never really considered any kind of display calibrator before since the majority of my work was dvds, thus they weren't being printed, and every tv looks differently anyway. Now that I'm working with prints I will look into this. It would also be beneficial for the upcoming slide scanning. Any recommendations?
Tom, it makes total sense if you think about it, but I do understand priorities are different for everyone.
You may need that badly needed lens to do a job that doesn't require anything special from your computer, while I have the lens, but can't render a dvd in time.
Generally speaking, buying the computer you can afford is probably the worst mistake anyone makes. Most general people have a price range in mind, but have no idea what they need a computer for.
Using me as an example, if I were still doing the dvd each year I would be crippled by now due solely to my computer. Two years ago I was limiting content due to rendering times of standard 4x3 dvds.
Now I'm considering offering HD-BluRay versions, again something I could not have dreamed of before.
Four years ago I had a good idea of what I needed and started my "BMP" (as pickerbw says) to save to upgrade my computer. Part of what got me there was deciding on things like NOT upgrading camera bodies, but sticking with what I had. I opted for 3ea 30D's versus 1ea 7D, etc.
I fully understand that this plan worked well FOR ME, but may not work for someone else (a 30D would not be the best choice of a portrait photographer, etc). If we all should understand anything here, these things are not just "black and white", but "millions of colors".
Which takes us back to my point about longevity. I wasn't referring even to a machine's viability for power, but approximately when they crap out and are no longer worth upgrading/fixing/continuing to use, even above and beyond basic needs - I believe that's about 3-5 years (particularly in the case of laptops). Even the most basic consumer machine currently available *can* run the software I'm using to edit my pictures (yes portraits, and no DVD or video requirements) - right now I use CS3 and LR3; I can get a $300 refurb Dell tower or $500 spankin' new all-in-one or 15" laptop at Best Buy and have beyond ample power for my needs now (ie an upgrade to CS6, and LR4 - or 5 - in due course), and probably sufficient for at least 2 years. I'll guess that at right about 3years, another software or camera-technology jump will increase the file sizes/processing requirements, meaning sometimes between 3-4 years a new machine will be beneficial. Since this is right around the same time a machine would likely die anyway.... My point being that I can spend $2000 and be over-spec'd for 3-5 years, or I can manage with what's a $700 machine, do very nicely for up to 3 years and then plan for the next machine. I'll still have saved money over the time involved.
FWIW I LOAAAATHHHEE planned obsolescence and having to think of electronics as dispossable - I wish it were easier to repair and upgrade than simply buy new. Unfortunately, it seems that's not really a viable option with cameras and computers....
I guess I just don't see it as the big deal that you do; my priorities are definitely different and while a zippy computer is nice, it just isn't at the top of my shopping list even now I'm shooting professionally. Sure, maximum power and efficiency is great and clearly for your needs is something you consider vital, but for many people shooting stills with relatively slow throughput it definitely isn't the key piece of the imaging chain. Don't get me wrong - it's nice if I can afford it! - but the $1300 I could save in my two examples as above could buy me some nice glass, be put towards a new camera body (5dIII anybody?!), or be used for a workshop/seminar/travel trip. ALL of which will benefit me as a shooter just as much as (and probably more than) the faster computer.
ETA: One other thing - when editing pictures on high end machines with top of the line monitors, one can sometimes forget that not everybody has those goodies and what looks great to the user of the "best of the best" may not look so good to a general audience on inferior-quality equipment. Same is true of sound editing - listen back on a perfectly-positioned, wide-dynamic, fabulous speakers set and it sounds great. In the car on a base-model CD? BLECH.
Many great points made in this discussion. One thing not discussed I think is where a photographer is in the business cycle - newbie, enthusiast, hobby, semi pro or full time professional. Combine that with how it is to be used (use cases) - creating photo videos or very large files (D800) for instance at the one extreme. it seems to me the further a person is the business and use case cycle the more powerful a machine and better processing methodology is required.
Phil
"You don't take a photograph, you make it." ~Ansel Adams
Phil
Excellent point Phil.... and again, I'm not just talking about the computer (cpu) only. It could be something as simply as bumping your ram up, adding another HD, adding a second burner, adding an array, or larger or dual displays, etc. Whatever makes your job easier, faster, more enjoyable, etc.
I'm certainly not saying that everyone needs to go out and buy the "latest/greatest" computer every 3yrs. I'm simply trying to help people realize that a computer can be just as important as the camera.
Your current computer may work for you today, but if you land a large client, expand your normal realm of shooting, take on a new process, etc, this may require added equipment, new or upgrading your computer, etc.
This is an outdated example now that I have the MacPro, but back when I was scanning slides with my G4, it was taking about 12mins per slide with the ram I had. After spending about $200 to max out the computer with ram, the same scan time dropped by 3 mins. Doesn't sound like much, but 3 mins X 4000 slides equals about 200 hours saved.