Smugmug Alternatives...?

Dreadnote

Sayonara smugmug!

Just as I think the rent on the home I live in is quite reasonable for what I get, I thought the rent on the home my photos lived in was quite reasonable for what they got. However, if the rent on the home I live in went up 67% I would be leaving that home just as my photos will be leaving smugmug. Apart from the sheer price of the cost increase no longer fitting in with my hobby, I have to seriously question the business sense of a company who dumps that kind of increase all at once on their customers. In the real estate world there are price increases in regular small amounts referred to as "nuisance" increases which increase revenue for the landlord without offending the renters. If smugmug had raised its prices $5 or $10 a year every year I probably would not have thought twice about it, but 67%, really? You think that is a good idea? Perhaps I could interest you in some shares of Netflix.

So anyway, do any of you have any real world experience with smugmug alternatives? If you can make a recommendation I'd appreciate it.

Robertk

Dreadnote wrote: »

Sayonara smugmug!

Just as I think the rent on the home I live in is quite reasonable for what I get, I thought the rent on the home my photos lived in was quite reasonable for what they got. However, if the rent on the home I live in went up 67% I would be leaving that home just as my photos will be leaving smugmug. Apart from the sheer price of the cost increase no longer fitting in with my hobby, I have to seriously question the business sense of a company who dumps that kind of increase all at once on their customers. In the real estate world there are price increases in regular small amounts referred to as "nuisance" increases which increase revenue for the landlord without offending the renters. If smugmug had raised its prices $5 or $10 a year every year I probably would not have thought twice about it, but 67%, really? You think that is a good idea? Perhaps I could interest you in some shares of Netflix.

So anyway, do any of you have any real world experience with smugmug alternatives? If you can make a recommendation I'd appreciate it.

Im doing a trial with Zenfolio! Lots to like about it.

Dreadnote

Thanks for the recommendation, I'll give it a look.

As a side, I'm starting to feel sorry for the person they have playing the role of "Bhagdad Bob" over on the smugmug Facebook page. They're going to have sore fingers by the morning.

https://www.facebook.com/SmugMug

ishootu

Please check out Zenfolio's shipping charges before you change. I think you will find them to be a bit EXPENSIVE.

dbvirago

Dreadnote wrote: »

Thanks for the recommendation, I'll give it a look.

As a side, I'm starting to feel sorry for the person they have playing the role of "Bhagdad Bob" over on the smugmug Facebook page. They're going to have sore fingers by the morning.

https://www.facebook.com/SmugMug

Yup, same thing on their Twitter page. How many times can they type, 'Sorry to see you go?'

Rogue 1

dbvirago wrote: »

Yup, same thing on their Twitter page. How many times can they type, 'Sorry to see you go?'

And every time we type it hurts the same, DB - but as I recently posted in another thread:

(QUOTE)
"... price hikes are never easy regardless of how/why/what... As our CEO and Chief Geek, Don, has mentioned, we've resisted raising prices for seven years... in hindsight, incremental increases would have likely been the better option, but this was unavoidable. We agonized over it... In order for us to continue to grow, to continue improving, to continue to offer the best service available on every front (support, features, performance and more), we needed to do this."

(thanks for forgiving me for the copy/paste)

We TRULY agonized over this - and unfortunately, we knew it was going to be painful for some of our user base as well. For those that choose to look elsewhere, we wish them well, and again quoting Don, "... we hope to one day earn their business back."

Joves

Well when you will be really sorry is as we long time customers leave your site at renewal time. Apparently saying so sad to see you go is your only plan of action, instead of trying to figure out how to both increase you income, and keep longtime customers. Shows me lack of loyalty to the customer.

Rogue 1

Joves wrote: »

Well when you will be really sorry is as we long time customers leave your site at renewal time. Apparently saying so sad to see you go is your only plan of action, instead of trying to figure out how to both increase you income, and keep longtime customers. Shows me lack of loyalty to the customer.

Hi Joves - I noticed the SmugMug site link in your signature and took a look at your account stats -

Great news - you have a POWER level account (not PRO) - It sounds like you may have misunderstood the situation... You're annual fee is not affected by this price change - in fact, it looks like you are currently grandfathered at the OLD price from back when you signed on in 2003!

Dogdots

Rogue 1 wrote: »

Hi Joves - I noticed the SmugMug site link in your signature and took a look at your account stats -

Great news - you have a POWER level account (not PRO) - It sounds like you may have misunderstood the situation... You're annual fee is not affected by this price change - in fact, it looks like you are currently grandfathered at the OLD price from back when you signed on in 2003!

I was just on Jove's site and while I can't buy a photo off his site I could buy a box of 20 cards for $14. If I were to buy that box of cards who would get the $14? Joves or Smug?

Playswithrocks

Dogdots wrote: »

I was just on Jove's site and while I can't buy a photo off his site I could buy a box of 20 cards for $14. If I were to buy that box of cards who would get the $14? Joves or Smug?

Smug would get it. According to the above post, Joves has a power account, therefore would not see a penny of it, nor even know the sale happened.

Dogdots

Playswithrocks wrote: »

Smug would get it. According to the above post, Joves has a power account, therefore would not see a penny of it, nor even know the sale happened.

Sadly that's what I thought. Thanks for confirming it for me. So technically smugmug is making money off of other peoples photos. I didn't think they did that. Can't that be turned off by Joves so that wouldn't happen or anyone that had a Power Account? Reason I ask this is because I need to know all my options. Right now I have a Pro account and need to know all the in's and outs of the other options.

kenski

http://www.photoswarm.com $99 a year

TalkieT

Hey guys - I would LOVE a credible alternative to Smugmug that allowed a similar level of customisation but every time I ask people say Zenfolio... They aren't even in the same ballpark for customisation options.

Are there any around at any price that allow similar level (rewriting HTML and CSS, javascript allowed etc) of customisation? I don't care how complex or user friendly it is or isn't... The only constraint is at this stage I don't want to manage the whole back end myself.

Cheers - N

Rogue 1

Playswithrocks wrote: »

Smug would get it. According to the above post, Joves has a power account, therefore would not see a penny of it, nor even know the sale happened.

More accurately, the print lab would get it (for cards I beleive this would be EZPrints) - that would be base cost for the prints...

Andy

Rogue 1 wrote: »

More accurately, the print lab would get it (for cards I beleive this would be EZPrints) - that would be base cost for the prints...

This is not correct Sean. X to the print lab. X+Y to SmugMug.

Rogue 1

Dogdots wrote: »

Sadly that's what I thought. Thanks for confirming it for me. So technically smugmug is making money off of other peoples photos. I didn't think they did that. Can't that be turned off by Joves so that wouldn't happen or anyone that had a Power Account? Reason I ask this is because I need to know all my options. Right now I have a Pro account and need to know all the in's and outs of the other options.

Hi Dogdots - The option to prevent purchases is available on every account level (always has been) - no worries - simply toggle PRINTABLE? to NO in the settings of any (or all) galleries you don't want anyone to be able to BUY - This removes the BUY option completely.

Andy

TalkieT wrote: »

Hey guys - I would LOVE a credible alternative to Smugmug that allowed a similar level of customisation but every time I ask people say Zenfolio... They aren't even in the same ballpark for customisation options.

Are there any around at any price that allow similar level (rewriting HTML and CSS, javascript allowed etc) of customisation? I don't care how complex or user friendly it is or isn't... The only constraint is at this stage I don't want to manage the whole back end myself.

Cheers - N

Neil, you should probably try to customize LESS just a little
Have you looked at squarespace? They'd be great for what you do.

Dogdots

Rogue 1 wrote: »

Hi Dogdots - The option to prevent purchases is available on every account level (always has been) - no worries - simply toggle PRINTABLE? to NO in the settings of any (or all) galleries you don't want anyone to be able to BUY - This removes the BUY option completely.

Now I remember that option Forgive me. This whole $100 increase has me so ruffled.

I do have one question for you. If I stay with my Pro account and pay the $250 when my time comes to do so .... Should I expect or will I see another increase in a year from now .. 2 years from now, etc. And will those increases be small - $25, med - $50, or big - $100?

Always was amazed that each year I renewed the price stayed the same. That I loved, but did expect to see an increase some day. Just not this much.

As a side note .. I think when someone forgets to set their setting to 'No' smug should let them know:D I know .. we're all adults and should take care of that ourselves, but sometimes we make 'oops'.

TalkieT

Andy wrote: »

Neil, you should probably try to customize LESS just a little
Have you looked at squarespace? They'd be great for what you do.

Chuckle - thanks for the link Andy... They do look great but as well as design I need the management facilities for a log of event images as well...

Smugmug is really perfect for me - it's just a shame I don't trust them anymore. I'll keep paying, but only until I find an alternative.

Cheers - Neil G

Dogdots

All day I've been pondering the ups and downs of staying with smugmug. I've looked at the other options out there and there's things smug offers that I don't think any other company can offer. One is family. We aren't related, but they listen to me. Long ago I saw someone had a smug account and that person died. Andy and smug kept that mans account active so his family could still see his photos/website. Amazing .... just amazing. I don't know of any other company out there that would do this.

Also I know when I have a problem I can hop onto dgrin and my family of friends will be there to help me with my smug site. If my family of friends can't help me I can get help from the smug team. My domain name was a mess, but a smug team member spent his personal time working out the bugs for me. I don't know of another company that would do that.

When it comes to sales .. that's my department to handle, but for the printing, printing options and mailings ... smug has provided us with excellent service. Where else can I send back a photo that didn't print to what I liked/damaged or a customer didn't like it? That photo will either be reprinted at no cost to me or the customer or money will be refunded. Shipping is paid for by smug too. Again .. amazing. Smugs attention to the customer .. that being us and whom we sell to is a service I feel we can't get anywhere else.

No ... I've thought of all the things smug has to offer. Yeah the price is going up $100 for the Pro account, but $100 .... while hard to take when first hearing of it ... easier to take once we think of all smug has provided us and will continue to provide us. I'm not one that needs all the fancy things people have been asking for, but knowing smug is there to help me when needed, provide a service that I know my few customers can trust ... I could go on and on, but we all know if we stop to think of what smugmug has done/given to us .. well for an extra $100 a year it is worth it. To me at least it is.

Smug .. I'm still with ya!

Dreadnote

So I'm playing around with my Zenfolio trial...any other suggestions?

(I realize some people will stay with smugmug for a variety of reasons. If they make some reasonable course correction before my Nov 30 renew date, and that sounds like a pretty big if at this point, I might too. But for the time being options and alternatives are what I was hoping for out of this thread. )

Joves

Rogue 1 wrote: »

Hi Joves - I noticed the SmugMug site link in your signature and took a look at your account stats -

Great news - you have a POWER level account (not PRO) - It sounds like you may have misunderstood the situation... You're annual fee is not affected by this price change - in fact, it looks like you are currently grandfathered at the OLD price from back when you signed on in 2003!

This is not the point. I was planning on upgrading to Pro this year, but since you have chosen to gouge people for this, I will make the change elsewhere. Which in truth all we hear is sorry your leaving, which in my mind shows a lack of regard for longtime customers.

Dogdots wrote: »

I was just on Jove's site and while I can't buy a photo off his site I could buy a box of 20 cards for $14. If I were to buy that box of cards who would get the $14? Joves or Smug?

See this is a problem because I disabled printing on all of my galleries globally using SMs software.

Playswithrocks wrote: »

Smug would get it. According to the above post, Joves has a power account, therefore would not see a penny of it, nor even know the sale happened.

And therein lies one of the many problems. Why does Smugmug think it has the right to sell and print my photos, when I pay for this service? And also does this also mean you can sell say digital copies under the same reasoning? You know I think I may double check DMCA at the Copyright Office and see if this is a back door violation. Because I did not see anything in the terms of use specifying that SM had riights to my work.

Dogdots wrote: »

Sadly that's what I thought. Thanks for confirming it for me. So technically smugmug is making money off of other peoples photos. I didn't think they did that. Can't that be turned off by Joves so that wouldn't happen or anyone that had a Power Account? Reason I ask this is because I need to know all my options. Right now I have a Pro account and need to know all the in's and outs of the other options.

First I must Thank-You very much for showing that despite my having turned off printing did not turn it off in reality. When I complained about this and the Pic Collecting BS, I was told to opt out, and to pretty much get over it. I knew in my heart I should have left then. I will see if what they are doing is first legal under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, which I do not believe it is. They are clearly using their customers works to make money, but they claim to make nothing. Yeah and Santa is coming to my house in December. They and their printers make something from it or they would not do it. I have asked before and never received an answer as to how this is not a violation of my Copyright. Maybe now I can get one now, but I think I will once again hear crickets.

Joves

Dreadnote wrote: »

So I'm playing around with my Zenfolio trial...any other suggestions?

(I realize some people will stay with smugmug for a variety of reasons. If they make some reasonable course correction before my Nov 30 renew date, and that sounds like a pretty big if at this point, I might too. But for the time being options and alternatives are what I was hoping for out of this thread. )

I have had several people on one of my forums try Zen on the free trial, and so far they love it. They say it is easier to setup and customize. Also the get less for printing and digital DLs, ZF gets 12% and 8%. I heard the SM is a straight 15%, I saw someone post to see how outrageous their shipping charges are, if that is all they have to make them look bad then they have a problem.

Dreadnote

Hmmmm...MyZenfolio in the app store. You can upload photos, download photos, organize photos and move them between galleries. Nice!

JohnR

Well, I guess it's time for me and Smugmug to part ways, unfortunately. This price increase is just too much for me. At least I have until March to get things in order.

DesptachesGallery

Robertk wrote: »

Im doing a trial with Zenfolio! Lots to like about it.

Robert - do us a favour please? Can you advise if you can do Smart Galleries on the Zenfolio offerings?

Much appreciate yur assistance....Pete

Sventekoz

DesptachesGallery wrote: »

Robert - do us a favour please? Can you advise if you can do Smart Galleries on the Zenfolio offerings?

Much appreciate yur assistance....Pete

I don't think you can, but I'm happy to be corrected.

Edit: I just checked, and this is a planned feature.

DesptachesGallery

Sventekoz wrote: »

I don't think you can, but I'm happy to be corrected.

Edit: I just checked, and this is a planned feature.

Hey fellow Aussie John - thanks mate.

Any ideas as to a workaround in ZF UNTIL they bring that functionality in? Our current design makes use of Smart galleries a LOT.

Sventekoz

From what I can see, the only option would be to manually allocate pictures - which obviously isn't any sort of acceptable work around.

I'll be in Singapore in a few weeks - is the weather nice?

DesptachesGallery

getting a little smoke haze, John - usual for this time of year. Always hot - think 27 at night to 32 during the day - every day. Lightweight Chinos and likewise a lightweight long sleeve shirt. You coming up for the GP?

Contact me via our site and happy to show you around.

Thanks for the input, Pete

Sventekoz

Thanks, Pete. No - not for the GP. Just a week off.